Shogun vs Machida at UFC 76?

Mulla · 07-09-2007, 07:56 AM

Interesting fight, I like both guys so will be happy whoever wins.

I have a feeling the winner of this fight could be next up for a title shot. Machida will be 3-0 in the UFC if he wins this and so would be a good choice for the next title shot and Shogun has already beaten Rampage (presuming Rampage is still champ) so that would be a marketable fight too and if Hendo is the champ then they could market it as Shogun wanting to revenge Wanderlei's loss.

DirtyChuckRulz! · 07-09-2007, 11:18 AM

i think this is a pointless matchup for Shoguns first fight. Im a an of Machida and think he deserves more exposure. He should have been on the main card long before this. If they played it right this could have been a huge fight later down the road. Now all the rednecks will discredit who ever takes the loss in this one.

Mulla · 07-09-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyChuckRulz!

i think this is a pointless matchup for Shoguns first fight. Im a an of Machida and think he deserves more exposure. He should have been on the main card long before this.

Machida was on the main card for UFC70.

OneBigThrow · 07-09-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

I tell you what i really don't like... all this about people being worried about fights and fighters etc.

You clearly in another thread talked about Shogun being the best etc. and now you're worrying because he is facing Lyoto Machida.

If a guy with the profile of Shogun comes into the UFC, I would find it embarrassing for Shogun to see fans saying not to fight Machida after all the praise they gave. He will be a UFC fighter, he must fight the best to his ability and work him, why give him someone like Forrest if it would be too easy for him. People will realise this who may not know Shogun too well and start to think that Shogun can't be that good if he is being paired up with Forrest, who you have just claimed to be an easy opponent for him.

Ok, if Dana gives Shogun a fight against Forrest thats fair enough, and I would like to see the fight. However, for a fan to say that Shogun will tear through the UFC and then say he is worried that Shoguns first fight will be against Machida, it sort of lacks logic and sort of shows inconsistency.

If Shogun loses his first title fight, then thats fair enough, he shouldn't be protected at all because if he doesn't beat Machida then surely he is not yet ready for a title shot and Machida is more deserving, to be fair it sounds like you want Shogun to have an easy route to the title, and as a fan I just think that isn't too loyal.

beautiful post

RockemSockem · 07-09-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

I tell you what i really don't like... all this about people being worried about fights and fighters etc.

You clearly in another thread talked about Shogun being the best etc. and now you're worrying because he is facing Lyoto Machida.

If a guy with the profile of Shogun comes into the UFC, I would find it embarrassing for Shogun to see fans saying not to fight Machida after all the praise they gave. He will be a UFC fighter, he must fight the best to his ability and work him, why give him someone like Forrest if it would be too easy for him. People will realise this who may not know Shogun too well and start to think that Shogun can't be that good if he is being paired up with Forrest, who you have just claimed to be an easy opponent for him.

Ok, if Dana gives Shogun a fight against Forrest thats fair enough, and I would like to see the fight. However, for a fan to say that Shogun will tear through the UFC and then say he is worried that Shoguns first fight will be against Machida, it sort of lacks logic and sort of shows inconsistency.

If Shogun loses his first title fight, then thats fair enough, he shouldn't be protected at all because if he doesn't beat Machida then surely he is not yet ready for a title shot and Machida is more deserving, to be fair it sounds like you want Shogun to have an easy route to the title, and as a fan I just think that isn't too loyal.

You took what i said the wrong way. I don't think he'd have a problem beating Machida, i just think there's a good chance it will be a boring fight. Counter-fighters are a bad matchup for everyone and often equate to boring fights. Machida is 10-0 with 6 of those fights going to decision. 5 of his last 6 fights have ended in decision, although those decisions were to pretty good fighters. Giving him someone who will exchange or at least has active BJJ and who has a bigger name than Machida makes more sense for his first fight. I'd love to see Shogun-Machida down the road, i just think it's a bad choice for Shogun's UFC debut.

As for deserving of a title shot, i'd put them about even. I don'tlike fighters cutting the line as far as title shots. But i'm willing to give Shogun a little leverage there since he is typically ranked at #1 in the world right now, and rightfully so. He still needs to win some fights in the UFC against some contenders. But Machida doesn't get that leverage and is only 2-0 in the UFC. I think Sam Hoger is a very underrated fighter, but his UFC record is nothing to brag about. Beating him does not move you far in the rankings. David Heath was 2-0 in the UFC, but beating him doesn't exactly put you in line for a title shot either.

The way i see it, Shogun skips those low ranked fights and goes straight to someone with some credibility. Like Forrest, Liddell, Jardine, Rashad, Tito, Babalu, Lambert. I'm all for him fighting tough guys, i just want his debut to have a better chance of being exciting.

Harms · 07-09-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooner

This is how it's supposed to be.
Bad men vs. bad men.

The LHW-division is now so stacked it's not a tragedy when some of the top guys lose once in a while.
It's what we always wanted, top guys against each other. No coddling.

I 100% agree. It really needs to be shut up or put up time for the elite Pride fighters coming into the UFC. They don't need showcase fights for people to get to know them. They beat the best the UFC has to offer that should be showcase enough. The guy Crocop fought in the first fight never should have even been in the octogon with Crocop.

Brad · 07-09-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockemSockem

You took what i said the wrong way. I don't think he'd have a problem beating Machida, i just think there's a good chance it will be a boring fight. Counter-fighters are a bad matchup for everyone and often equate to boring fights. Machida is 10-0 with 6 of those fights going to decision. 5 of his last 6 fights have ended in decision, although those decisions were to pretty good fighters. Giving him someone who will exchange or at least has active BJJ and who has a bigger name than Machida makes more sense for his first fight. I'd love to see Shogun-Machida down the road, i just think it's a bad choice for Shogun's UFC debut.

As for deserving of a title shot, i'd put them about even. I don'tlike fighters cutting the line as far as title shots. But i'm willing to give Shogun a little leverage there since he is typically ranked at #1 in the world right now, and rightfully so. He still needs to win some fights in the UFC against some contenders. But Machida doesn't get that leverage and is only 2-0 in the UFC. I think Sam Hoger is a very underrated fighter, but his UFC record is nothing to brag about. Beating him does not move you far in the rankings. David Heath was 2-0 in the UFC, but beating him doesn't exactly put you in line for a title shot either.

The way i see it, Shogun skips those low ranked fights and goes straight to someone with some credibility. Like Forrest, Liddell, Jardine, Rashad, Tito, Babalu, Lambert. I'm all for him fighting tough guys, i just want his debut to have a better chance of being exciting.

I completely agree with your post here.

But then again, I wasn't arguing against yours in the first place lol. I was arguing against Eavinworp or whatever his name is, unless i posted the wrong quote. But no don't worry, I agreed with your post completely.

earvinarp · 07-09-2007, 04:04 PM

Machida-Shogun
Liddell-Silva
Rampage-Henderson

The PRIDE LHWs are taking over the UFC quite fast. I give them the edge in all three fights. Of course, the Jackson-Hendo is a win-win for PRIDE anyway.

I don't think Machida-Shogun will necessarily be boring. Rua likes to push the pace of all his fights. I have not seen a boring fight with him in it for years. Same with Silva. But that said, the fights in PRIDE seem to be more dynamic than the the UFC.

earvinarp · 07-09-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

I completely agree with your post here.

But then again, I wasn't arguing against yours in the first place lol. I was arguing against Eavinworp or whatever his name is, unless i posted the wrong quote. But no don't worry, I agreed with your post completely.

wow, wow, wow. That is a nice showing of respect...

Brad · 07-09-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earvinarp

wow, wow, wow. That is a nice showing of respect...

To be fair, I don't think your post concerning you being worried about Shogun facing Machida after the praise you gave him deserved any of my respect whatsoever.

earvinarp · 07-09-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

To be fair, I don't think your post concerning you being worried about Shogun facing Machida after the praise you gave him deserved any of my respect whatsoever.

With good intention I post my opinions and these, coming from a fellow mma fan and fight forum contributor deserve the respect of other members. Now, if you disagree with what I have to say, you are welcome to do so, as you did. But showing disrespect for other members is cowardly and infantile.

That said, my comment on it being a dangerous fight for the UFC is totally justified as the UFC wants to make sure they can benefit the most from every fight and outcome. They have no control over the outcomes but they do over the match-ups. I WANT to see Machida fight Shogun. But it may backfire for the UFC. That is all I said.

Now, if you want to disrespect my opinions, try to be a bit wiser and subtler.

Brad · 07-09-2007, 04:20 PM

I do want to disrespect your opinion, because you have sort of changed your story. In the first post, you made it sound like you was more worried about Shogun being another Cro-Cop, and I just think its a bit cowardice to even make an alternative fight like that if you don't even believe it. I don't think Dana would care, as it would show that he can't cut the UFC, which I don't think Dana would mind as he was a PRIDE fighter, and he always said his UFC guys were better. I just think you're changing your stories to be fair, and if you are a true fan of Shogun, you would want him to fight the best, and although you are saying that now, it didn't sound like that yesterday when you made your first post, thats all im saying on the matter, I don't think I should respect you for that, because it shows that you're one of those guys who would jump on a bandwagon when a big name comes along.

earvinarp · 07-09-2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

because it shows that you're one of those guys who would jump on a bandwagon when a big name comes along.

What!? I don't understand that. I have been watching PRIDE for as long as I have been watching UFC, so the whole "big name comes along" thing does not really fly here.

In any case, yesterday's post is there and people can read it and make up their minds about it. I abide to my word that what I just said is what I meant when I wrote it.

Brad · 07-09-2007, 04:28 PM

Ok, well it just sounds different today so thats all that I am saying.

I didn't mean that you didn't know the PRIDE fighters as well as the UFC fighters, but I meant that as soon as someone started praising a fighter and how dominant they will be, you would also join them, which is all well and good if you would of been consistant about it and went along with that theory, but then with what you said, it sounded like you was saying that it was a bad match for Shogun in his UFC debut, which is completely contradicting what you were saying about him being able to defeat anyone, thats all i was meaning by that.

earvinarp · 07-09-2007, 04:31 PM

No problem. Thanks for willing to change your mind about my comments.
Match-up or not, please allow me to clarify my mind to avoid confusion: I think no one will beat Shogun in a few years, even though I did state that him being defeated would be bad for the UFC. I also think Machida is top 5 in the world.

Brad · 07-09-2007, 04:34 PM

Ok, well they are fair comments and I do respect them. However, I would of said the same with Cro-Cop, so I do disagree with the first comment about nobody beating Shogun, hey it could happen, but i think its too early to tell with all the upsets this year and the the growth of mma showing that it is a lot easier to beat an opponent now.

Aries · 07-09-2007, 06:15 PM

Hey guys first post here

Makes for an interesting fight thats for sure, i just get the feeling that Shogun could very well come out with a fast pace and put it on him like the majority of his opponents. You never know though that Machida is very elusive as Rogan would say, he could frustrate Shogun by not engaging with him amd striking from distance.

If Shogun gets a hold of him though, gets him down or in that thai clinch, you could very well see the same sort of devastating results we all saw with Rampage

earvinarp · 07-09-2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aries

Hey guys first post here

Makes for an interesting fight thats for sure, i just get the feeling that Shogun could very well come out with a fast pace and put it on him like the majority of his opponents. You never know though that Machida is very elusive as Rogan would say, he could frustrate Shogun by not engaging with him amd striking from distance.

If Shogun gets a hold of him though, gets him down or in that thai clinch, you could very well see the same sort of devastating results we all saw with Rampage

Welcome to the forum.

thepsycho · 07-09-2007, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

I tell you what i really don't like... all this about people being worried about fights and fighters etc.

You clearly in another thread talked about Shogun being the best etc. and now you're worrying because he is facing Lyoto Machida.

If a guy with the profile of Shogun comes into the UFC, I would find it embarrassing for Shogun to see fans saying not to fight Machida after all the praise they gave. He will be a UFC fighter, he must fight the best to his ability and work him, why give him someone like Forrest if it would be too easy for him. People will realise this who may not know Shogun too well and start to think that Shogun can't be that good if he is being paired up with Forrest, who you have just claimed to be an easy opponent for him.

Ok, if Dana gives Shogun a fight against Forrest thats fair enough, and I would like to see the fight. However, for a fan to say that Shogun will tear through the UFC and then say he is worried that Shoguns first fight will be against Machida, it sort of lacks logic and sort of shows inconsistency.

If Shogun loses his first title fight, then thats fair enough, he shouldn't be protected at all because if he doesn't beat Machida then surely he is not yet ready for a title shot and Machida is more deserving, to be fair it sounds like you want Shogun to have an easy route to the title, and as a fan I just think that isn't too loyal.

damn good point, i've argued this same bs with shogun fans.this fight is perfect and i see why some shogun fans are worried.:sport-smi