BanderMort

A friend and I were driving around the other day and he asked a question. Basically he is someone new to the concept of MMA and just barely getting his feet wet. I am by no means a seasoned veteran myself. I have been watching mainly Pride and UFC fights and reading every post on ever forum I could find. I don’t consider myself well educated at all, but I do believe I understand a little bit more about fighting than your typical Joe Average.

Basically what he was asking was… If you took a very disciplined Kung-Fu (he insisted I specify Shaolin Kung-Fu) practitioner of a very small frame, let’s say 150 lbs and tossed him in a cage with a disciplined UFC caliber heavy weight (think Randy Couture caliber) what would happen?

He himself see’s “Shaolin Kung-Fu” as something that is just on another level as far as physical combat goes and made the case that he thought a bigger guy would NEVER land a hit on the Kung-Fu guy and also doesn’t agree that the larger guy would ever score a takedown. To me this isn’t realistic. I don’t see one style ever being dominant against a guy that’s all well rounded.

So basically, he considers Shaolin Kung-Fu to be on another level and doesn’t see current MMA fighters ever beating Shaolin Kung-Fu practitioners. I personally don’t understand why he would consider “Shaolin Kung-Fu” specifically a dominant style over any other. Any insight on that would be helpful. I know this has been a silly question, but any educated feedback would be awesome, thanks.

fullonshred

He's seen too many re-runs of Kung-Fu. They have weight classes for a reason.

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Normo

Ask him why theres no "Shaolin Kung-Fu" artists in the MMA, its obviously because they would destroy everyone in front of them and get the belt (/end sarcasm). How quick does he think these guys are also? they off to fly around the cage not getting hit? I dnt think so.

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Toshinden

Discipline is no substitute for well-roundedness. Isn't GSP a black belt in Kyokushin Karate? You don't see him performing many of the techniques of that art in the UFC... You can't go into a top-level professional MMA fight nowadays and compete well against well-rounded guys, even if you are the very best in the world in any form of martial arts. As much as I hate saying this, I don't even think Bruce Lee would be able to compete successfully in the UFC without first training a bunch of ground game (although I will follow up by saying that seeing Bruce Lee compete with some jiu-jitsu in the UFC would be the coolest thing I would ever see, and I would retire as an MMA fan after Bruce Lee was finished in the business )

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Anti-Sanchez

Yeah, if Shaolin Kung-Fu was the end-all be-all of combat fighting then you'd certainly see people in MMA incorporating it into their fighting. As far as I know I've never seen anyone use any form of Kung-Fu in MMA. Although Mayhem like to pretend he's using it at the beginning of his matches.

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StratTone

I'm not sure where it is on YouTube but there is some old guy that thinks he can beat an MMA guy and offers a handsome sum of money to see. It shows him "beating up like 15 classmates" before the fight. The guy thinks there is pin point spots on people to take them out with a point of the finger. Well you know what happens did happen. The MMA guy hurt him pretty bad. The older guy even looked for a time-out once when he got hit really hard. Like it surprised him or something.

Normo

YouTube - Kiai Master vs MMA

This beast?

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Michael Bisping on sokoudjou
"I’ll f-ing bounce his head all over the place, f-ing a-hole."

Jenkins83

Your friend watches too many unrealistic movies where the little Kung Fu guy always beats the crap out of a bunch of bigger guys. In the real world a little 150 lbs Kung Fu guy would not last a minute against an MMA Heavyweight.

BanderMort

Thanks for the comments guys, that is exactly the point I was trying to make but I couldn’t get it across to him apparently. I told him there is a difference between guys that train in martial arts and guys that actually train and fight all the time. I’m going to show him that video of that old delusional Kiai master as well, lol.

StratTone

Thats the one. That is just great. How in the world do you get that far in martial arts and not realize you can't fight. I think learning formations and stuff is great for disapline but telling kids that they can fight is just wrong.

Normo

Another video of the all famous death touch and it not working

YouTube - Martial Arts Death Touch

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Michael Bisping on sokoudjou
"I’ll f-ing bounce his head all over the place, f-ing a-hole."

lambo84

Obviously you all have never watched Kill Bill, the five finger exploding heart technique is pretty damn sweer.

mammoth91

This type of question comes up a lot and it so tired. MMA is a sport, Kung Fu is not. On the street Kung Fu forms will take out most people. The way you fight in a ring or cage is not how you would fight on the street. I have trained Lau Kune Do for 20 years, had fights on the street and in competition and they are worlds apart.

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Drexal

I have 2 black belts in Kung-Fu, 1 in Lau Gar Kung-Fu and the other in Wing Chun Kung-Fu. I feel I am qualified to talk about this somewhat, your friend is some what deluded about this. The Shaolin Kung-Fu guy would be easily beaten in a cage under MMA rules. This is because most of the moves that Kung-Fu employs would be considered illegal in a cage. Eye and groin strikes are illegal as are pressure point strikes and the use of weapons is strictly forbidden too. Shaolin Kung-Fu has no ground game or takedown defence. It is however quite an effect martial art as proved by it's survival. The old style monks are nothing like their modern day counter parts as they are not continually tested in life or death battles, so are soft in comparison. MMA is so strong these days because it is continually tested in the environment it is used in. It is not however the ultimate combat art.

MMA takes place in a cage with a soft matt, this somewhat flatters Jui Jitsu and Wrestlers. You try applying an armbar on a concrete floor and see what I mean. I think in TUF 6 this was shown and the guy had his head split open on the concrete patio as he was applying and armbar. Also Jui Jitsu is good for one on one combat but you try it against a group of people and see what happens...

This is where Martial Arts like Shaolin Kung-Fu are better, they are (were) proper fighting arts where groups of people would fight each other on the battle field with weapons, horses and armour.

I think this where most of the confusion occurs, remember MMA is a sport with rules and a safe environment, Kung-Fu and other Martial arts (such as Escrima which is now my main martial art) were developed to fight in wars where people died. (not Wing Chun though as that was developed 400 years a go by a women for her personal self defense.)

Hope that answers your question

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kbtat2

Ha!!! Did you notice Stephen Bonnar in that second video? Look at 3:32. Lol

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TapOrNap

You beat me to posting that. That is where Bonnar learned to take a punch.

Switch

I recommend sitting down with your friend and watching UFC 1-6. It is a good example of how strikers faired against a ground fighter.
On the topic of combat vs sport. You can't really compare todays "Kung-fu"(this is a bastarized term used by the west the actual spelling is Gungfu and its general meaning was "good work") with it in the form the founders of that art used. It has changed greatly through regulation but if you compare its effectiveness on the street with MMA I would consider the classical martial arts to be superior. As was pointed out when you are in a uncontrolled situation placing someone in an armbar (or any other submission to make them give up) is not your best move. If you do apply a hold you better make sure you break the limb or quickly choke your target out. That was the original intent of these moves but through regulation and sport they have been watered down.

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BispingKO

Are you sure this is real? Because I cant imagine thopse "students" in the beginning actually believing that this "master" had control of them? It looks fake, but maybe. When he gets hit first it is funny because his body language is: "That b*tch just hit me?!"

BanderMort

I really appreciate the time you took to type this out, very good information. I myself have been watching and reading enough about fighting the last year and a half to have already understood this concept. Unfortunately I have no formal training myself so my word does not seem to carry too much weight in fight discussions. Him reading this forum should give him a little insight since its not only coming from educated people, but also some trained fighters. Thanks again.

basslogic4003

Something else people don't realize is the amount of time training in either discipline. I'd rather fight with 6 months of MMA training than 6 months of Kung Fu. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but to be able to exploit the techniques of Kung Fu one has to be a student for quite some time. Obviously, the same can be said for MMA, that the longer one trains the better one performs, but it seems like that process is exaggerated in TMA's. Another thing to consider is live training. From what I understand (which isn't a lot), there's a lot of Kata in TMA's. In MMA, nearly right off the bat, one is training live with a fully resisting opponent. This speaks volumes for effective application of techniques in relation to amount of time spent training. I'm no expert on TMA's, so please correct me if I'm wrong.