Josh Barnett: "Not all Pride fighters struggle in the UFC"

Crashsti · 10-04-2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTKrav911

I've just always thought UFC fighters had more athleticism than Pride fighters.

To me, that makes all the difference.

the UFC fighters are athletes first and foremost. PrideFc fighters were a mix of great fighters/athletes and ex prowrestlers and freaks. how many times was there a japanese fighter making his MMA debut in one of Pride's Tournaments? quite a few. should wins against Giant Silva even count on a fighters record? i don't want to take away anything from the great Pride fighters but you have to admit that there was alot of garbage fighting in Pride. Zulu? Giant Silva? numerous unknown prowrestlers? that guy who only jumped around trying to fake out his opponent? the UFC is'nt perfect in that department either, ie. Sean Gannon, but for the most part the UFC is freak free.

jonnyboyee · 10-04-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Rampage had four KOTC matches way back before he went into PRIDE. He also had four Gladiator Challenge matches, which used the same cage as KOTC. So, he has had experience in a cage.

so you are agreeing with me then on the subject right .

Flying Triangle Choke · 10-04-2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

the UFC fighters are athletes first and foremost. PrideFc fighters were a mix of great fighters/athletes and ex prowrestlers and freaks. how many times was there a japanese fighter making his MMA debut in one of Pride's Tournaments? quite a few. should wins against Giant Silva even count on a fighters record? i don't want to take away anything from the great Pride fighters but you have to admit that there was alot of garbage fighting in Pride. Zulu? Giant Silva? numerous unknown prowrestlers? that guy who only jumped around trying to fake out his opponent? the UFC is'nt perfect in that department either, ie. Sean Gannon, but for the most part the UFC is freak free.

The UFC may be mostly "freak free" but you have to admit they have done their share of feeding people cans to try and build them up.

subgenius · 10-04-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Triangle Choke

The UFC may be mostly "freak free" but you have to admit they have done their share of feeding people cans to try and build them up.

Feeding a can to a name is not a freak show.

Feeding Zuluzinho to Fedor was a freak show...

MTKrav911 · 10-04-2007, 10:36 PM

LOL, the re-birth of the word Freak Show in MMA.

I love it!

Good ones Crash and Sub.

And you're both right BTW

Flying Triangle Choke · 10-04-2007, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Feeding a can to a name is not a freak show.

Feeding Zuluzinho to Fedor was a freak show...

And so was putting a guy on PPV who was best known for fighting Kimbo Slice in a streetfight...but let's just pretend that didn't happen

Flying Triangle Choke · 10-04-2007, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTKrav911

I've just always thought UFC fighters had more athleticism than Pride fighters.

To me, that makes all the difference.

Well...actually one could question that. If it was just all about athleticism, Kevin Randleman would've been one of the best fighters ever, and Jeremy Horn would never have won a fight.

F_B · 10-05-2007, 12:35 AM

I mainly think it's strikers that have problems adjusting to the cage. The cage is a better place for wrestlers and BJJ fighters.

LEFTHIGHKICK · 10-05-2007, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightinBlind

I mainly think it's strikers that have problems adjusting to the cage. The cage is a better place for wrestlers and BJJ fighters.

this is somewhat true! , i noticed alot of strikers like to bounce off the ropes to dodge punches and kicks, and like to use the ropes for weaving around fighters.

Jawshattera · 10-05-2007, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Triangle Choke

The UFC may be mostly "freak free" but you have to admit they have done their share of feeding people cans to try and build them up.

not like pride did.

dsfightfan · 10-05-2007, 02:52 AM

Quite honestly, I must say that even though I'll admit PRIDE fighters have NOT been living up to their expectations of being the best in the world, niether have the UFC fighters.

Everyone loves to bring up Shogun and CroCop (CroCop got beat, IMHO - Shogun just gassesd) but what about Chuck and Franklin? Chuck was supposed to be #1 LHW and even #1 P4P, "The Ace" was also not as good as the UFC would have us believe.

And to be fair, its not like the whole PRIDE roster is in the UFC now - we still have only a handful of fighters, some of who have not lived up to their full potential - others have belts

subgenius · 10-05-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsfightfan

Quite honestly, I must say that even though I'll admit PRIDE fighters have NOT been living up to their expectations of being the best in the world, niether have the UFC fighters.

Everyone loves to bring up Shogun and CroCop (CroCop got beat, IMHO - Shogun just gassesd) but what about Chuck and Franklin? Chuck was supposed to be #1 LHW and even #1 P4P, "The Ace" was also not as good as the UFC would have us believe.

And to be fair, its not like the whole PRIDE roster is in the UFC now - we still have only a handful of fighters, some of who have not lived up to their full potential - others have belts

One former PRIDE fighter has a belt. That would be Rampage Jackson. Cro-Cop and Shogun fell flat on their faces. They did not just do badly. Cro-Cop has fallen so far that hardly anybody (including me) thinks that he will ever bounce back. I keep my signature as a last hope, but I will likely change it soon as a matter of practicality. And, Shogun got beat. He did not go into the octagon and fight himself. There was an opponent in there, and that guy beat the crap out of Shogun.

subgenius · 10-05-2007, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Triangle Choke

And so was putting a guy on PPV who was best known for fighting Kimbo Slice in a streetfight...but let's just pretend that didn't happen

Well, let's not pretend that it happened all the time either. Hell, name a few other times that it happened. I bet I can name far more PRIDE freakshow fights than you can name UFC freakshow fights.

LEFTHIGHKICK · 10-05-2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

One former PRIDE fighter has a belt. That would be Rampage Jackson. Cro-Cop and Shogun fell flat on their faces. They did not just do badly. Cro-Cop has fallen so far that hardly anybody (including me) thinks that he will ever bounce back. I keep my signature as a last hope, but I will likely change it soon as a matter of practicality. And, Shogun got beat. He did not go into the octagon and fight himself. There was an opponent in there, and that guy beat the crap out of Shogun.

very true!! , I mean it looks like crocop has lost all his confidence and his will to fight!! , and his interestt! , it really kills me to see my fav fighter like this!! really does!!. same with Shogun! , he better put up in his next fight , otherwise!! , deeep troubs!

LEFTHIGHKICK · 10-05-2007, 12:59 PM

Actually Feeding Cro-cop Dos Caras Jr was just plain ridiculous!

Flying Triangle Choke · 10-05-2007, 01:35 PM

Ok, I think I know what you guys want to hear, so I'll just say it to make you feel better.

Pride sucked. The end.

Jawshattera · 10-05-2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Triangle Choke

Ok, I think I know what you guys want to hear, so I'll just say it to make you feel better.

Pride sucked. The end.

clearly it didnt suck, it just isnt any better an org than the ufc like people say it is.

subgenius · 10-05-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Triangle Choke

Ok, I think I know what you guys want to hear, so I'll just say it to make you feel better.

Pride sucked. The end.

Actually, THAT is how nearly every PRIDE fan sees even the slightest criticism of PRIDE Fighting. All along, most of us have simply been saying that PRIDE was NOT SUPERIOR. That PRIDE Fighting and the UFC have, on average, always been equals.

But, PRIDE fans cannot accept that their precious PRIDE Fighting promotion was anything less than THE BEST promotion. The fact is that PRIDE fighters have struggled to maintain any solid footing among the UFC fighters in the UFC. So much so that they will claim (cling to) Anderson Silva as a PRIDE fighter as if he had 20 fights in PRIDE. Read what Josh Barnett said about Rampage and Anderson Silva. He thinks that Silva spent his whole career in PRIDE Fighting.

So far, the only real accomplishment by any fighter that spent MOST of his fights in PRIDE Fighting has been Rampage Jackson defeating Chuck Liddell. Big Nog beat Herring, another guy from PRIDE that he beat many times before. Cro-Cop beat a runner in Eddie Sanchez, but that did not impress anybody.

Jackson beat Eastman, a guy he had beaten before. Rampage also has beaten Henderson. Rampage Jackson proved that his stay in PRIDE did not make his cage skills all that rusty. But, beating Henderson seemed great, but time will tell. If Henderson gets beat time after time in the octagon, then people will not look at beating Henderson as such a great thing.

Bomber · 10-05-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Jackson beat Eastman, a guy he had beaten before.

Just for the record, Eastman got the decision when they fought in KOTC.

Flying Triangle Choke · 10-05-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Actually, THAT is how nearly every PRIDE fan sees even the slightest criticism of PRIDE Fighting. All along, most of us have simply been saying that PRIDE was NOT SUPERIOR. That PRIDE Fighting and the UFC have, on average, always been equals.

But, PRIDE fans cannot accept that their precious PRIDE Fighting promotion was anything less than THE BEST promotion. The fact is that PRIDE fighters have struggled to maintain any solid footing among the UFC fighters in the UFC. So much so that they will claim (cling to) Anderson Silva as a PRIDE fighter as if he had 20 fights in PRIDE. Read what Josh Barnett said about Rampage and Anderson Silva. He thinks that Silva spent his whole career in PRIDE Fighting.

So far, the only real accomplishment by any fighter that spent MOST of his fights in PRIDE Fighting has been Rampage Jackson defeating Chuck Liddell. Big Nog beat Herring, another guy from PRIDE that he beat many times before. Cro-Cop beat a runner in Eddie Sanchez, but that did not impress anybody.

Jackson beat Eastman, a guy he had beaten before. Rampage also has beaten Henderson. Rampage Jackson proved that his stay in PRIDE did not make his cage skills all that rusty. But, beating Henderson seemed great, but time will tell. If Henderson gets beat time after time in the octagon, then people will not look at beating Henderson as such a great thing.

Well, what has actually bothered me the most about the whole thing is that it's become so chic for people like you to make these criticisms about Pride, but yet you act like your "precious" UFC can do no wrong. You all keep talking about the upsets losses the Pride guys have had. But you seem to be coveniently forgetting that this upset bug has been biting everybody, even *gasp* UFC guys!!! The UFC's supposed ultimate unbeatable poster boy(Chuck obviously) first got demolished in less than 2 minutes, then got embarassed by what was obviously supposed to be a stepping stone win for him. Even two guys who you yourself have nuthugged the hell out of(GSP and Sanchez) have been upset recently. GSP got mauled by, yet again, a guy that was supposed to be a stepping stone win for him. Hell, even some of the guys who have gotten the upset wins(Griffin and Jardine) have suffered bad upset losses in the past year(with Griffin ironically losing to Jardine when Jardine was supposed to be his stepping stone lol).

The point I'm making is that you guys are only pointing out one side of the argument when you make it sound like its just the former Pride guys struggling. It's been a good amount of the "favorites" that have been shocked in the past year or so, and it will continue to happen a good amount as long as the UFC keeps up its policy of feeding "stepping stones" to guys that they want to force down the fans' throats. Note: before you cry, I also want to point out that I don't think these upsets are a bad thing at all. It's made things alot more interesting, and I love when these instances blow up in the faces of the promoters.