TUF 6: Episode 6

subgenius · 10-25-2007, 03:24 PM

Matt Hughes is too tough on the fighters? WTH? Boo-F'N-hoo! So they get rough. Do they expect the REAL fights to be anything less? A lot of MMA schools beat up the guys training when they get in a training session and are going at it at near 100%. They have to be put into VERY tough situations to see how to correctly react. You people are getting too mamby-pamby about the training. And, we are only seeing less than 10% of the over-all training. You cannot show everthing in six hours when they have six weeks of footage.

And, I am unsure of all of the numbers, but each tale of the tape seems to indicate that all of Team Hughes are HIGHLY inexperienced. Why did Mac Danzig win? It had NOTHING to do with religion. It's because Danzig is the only guy on Team Hughes with serious experience with a real 16-4-1 MMA record. He is 6-1 in KOTC. He's the only guy so far that seems to have any real applied experience. Team Serra seems to have just gotten better picks and the more experienced fighters.

Why did Serra get the better picks? Well, somebody above in this thread said it already. Matt Serra runs a gym and trains other MMA fighters for a living. He has seen enough n00b MMA fighters to be able to spot a guy that knows what he's doing. Matt Hughes is NOT an experienced coach or trainer. He knows what he knows by training under Pat Miletich.

And, people pissing on and on about Matt Hughes and how it's all about him and winning and such is just F'N weak and annoying. It is HIS team. What do you expect him to say? Should he say, "Hey guys, its all about you, I don't care if you win or lose, juts have fun" or some such BS? This is Team Hughes verus Team Serra. And, Serra is just as much self-involved in all of this as Hughes. Serra has been bragging on and on about the wins and how much it must make Hughes mad.

And, it did piss me off to see that Serra was happy about that hand injury. It is completely possible that Dan lost that fight because his hand was hurting like Hell. Ben had no injury. Ben also had 5 professional MMA fights to help him mentally and physically to be ready. Dan had one pro-MMA fight. And, it makes me sick to see people say stupid crap like "Team Jesus"! So F'N what if many of the guys on Team HUGHES are religious. Dan had BS to deal with before his fight. It's becoming a trend. They CONVENIENTLY allow certain phone calls, while not allowing others. AND, right before the fight. It's BS and it's Reality TV manipulation.

T-Bone · 10-25-2007, 04:34 PM

sub - it sounds like you've turned into a mini Dana White. your post was F'N funny.

opsy · 10-25-2007, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Bone

sub - it sounds like you've turned into a mini Dana White. your post was F'N funny.

in response to you calling me cranky, and no I am not. But I am beginning to believe that the "T" in your name stands for *****. Instead of saying his post was just funny (obviously because you disagree with it) how about you say why. But I guess that's asking too much.

Saskabush · 10-25-2007, 05:04 PM

I don't know where this thread is going but I'd like to comment on that fight.

I saw Ben winning that fight decisively, the only real punch that Barerra landed was the one that dropped Ben in the first. Other than that he was taking serious damage, looked very tentative, and didn't seem to have any ground skills. Of all fights for Dana to be complaining about the decision I don't think this one warranted any argument.

subgenius · 10-25-2007, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saskabush

I don't know where this thread is going but I'd like to comment on that fight.

I saw Ben winning that fight decisively, the only real punch that Barerra landed was the one that dropped Ben in the first. Other than that he was taking serious damage, looked very tentative, and didn't seem to have any ground skills. Of all fights for Dana to be complaining about the decision I don't think this one warranted any argument.

I think that Dana White loved the match and wanted a third round. I thought it warranted a third round as well. But, I don't see Dan winning that fight no matter what. Dan and Ben fought hard. Dan did get a lot of small salt-and-pepper punches and one or two big punches (one knockdown). But, Dan was clearly not ready for that match and clearly not ready for TUF.

Matt Hughes could do but so much to prepare Dan for this fight. Once he had Ben down, Dan had little to no clue what to do with Ben. Standing up, Dan seemed like he wanted to bang. But, I think that his hand hurt him too much to be effective. He jogged around the ring, so he clearly had the cardio to be in that fight. But, Ben's stand-up striking was more mature, more skilled.

Dana White gave both fighters the $5,000 and they both deserved it. We will see more of Dan Barrera down the line on UFN shows or prelim fights or what ever.

Gooner · 10-25-2007, 05:31 PM

Barrera didn't deserve the 5 grand. Neither did Saunders tbh.
Like Bomber said, it was just Dana feeling bad for the guy.

He got beat. He bled a little.
He did a bunch of foot-punching/stalling.
And then he jogged away a lot too.
Seriously, watch the fight again, and tell me he did such a great job he deserved 5 grand for it.

And Dana saying "worst judging I've ever seen" was simply laughable.
They both dropped each other in the opening round. And Saunders was the aggressor in that round as well.

But this is just another example of why they should get rid of round scoring.
NO-ONE would be this outraged if the judges only had to pick a winner in this one.
Saunders by far the winner with that criteria.
Boo round scoring!

subgenius · 10-25-2007, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooner

Barrera didn't deserve the 5 grand. Neither did Saunders tbh.
Like Bomber said, it was just Dana feeling bad for the guy.

He got beat. He bled a little.
He did a bunch of foot-punching/stalling.
And then he jogged away a lot too.
Seriously, watch the fight again, and tell me he did such a great job he deserved 5 grand for it.

And Dana saying "worst judging I've ever seen" was simply laughable.
They both dropped each other in the opening round. And Saunders was the aggressor in that round as well.

But this is just another example of why they should get rid of round scoring.
NO-ONE would be this outraged if the judges only had to pick a winner in this one.
Saunders by far the winner with that criteria.
Boo round scoring!

I can agree that round scoring sucks. But, look at all the time-limit draws we would have if they decided that matches had to end by KO, submission, or time-limit draw. The judges were supposed to make it so that we had KO wins, submission wins, and decision wins. Two out of those three methods work well and the fans love it. The decisions would be okay, if they actually worked and every decision was a good one.

But, it seemed to me that everybody on Team Hughes and Dana White felt a third round was needed. Serra might not have thought that, but he's severely biased in that he wants nothing else but to win every match so that he can talk about how great a coach he is and how much better he was than Hughes.

I thought that round one was close, but I gave it to Dan. Round two was clearly for Ben. I would have liked a round three. But, having said that, Dan would not have beaten Ben in round three. The fight was lost in round two. Dan started losing in round two and it would not have stopped in round three.

Gooner · 10-25-2007, 05:43 PM

I don't want time-limit draws.

I want PRIDE-style judging.
The judge only picks a winner if the fight goes the distance.
Judging will never be perfect obviously, but that would be the best approach imo.

opsy · 10-25-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Matt Hughes is too tough on the fighters? WTH? Boo-F'N-hoo! So they get rough. Do they expect the REAL fights to be anything less? A lot of MMA schools beat up the guys training when they get in a training session and are going at it at near 100%. They have to be put into VERY tough situations to see how to correctly react. You people are getting too mamby-pamby about the training. And, we are only seeing less than 10% of the over-all training. You cannot show everthing in six hours when they have six weeks of footage.

And, I am unsure of all of the numbers, but each tale of the tape seems to indicate that all of Team Hughes are HIGHLY inexperienced. Why did Mac Danzig win? It had NOTHING to do with religion. It's because Danzig is the only guy on Team Hughes with serious experience with a real 16-4-1 MMA record. He is 6-1 in KOTC. He's the only guy so far that seems to have any real applied experience. Team Serra seems to have just gotten better picks and the more experienced fighters.

Why did Serra get the better picks? Well, somebody above in this thread said it already. Matt Serra runs a gym and trains other MMA fighters for a living. He has seen enough n00b MMA fighters to be able to spot a guy that knows what he's doing. Matt Hughes is NOT an experienced coach or trainer. He knows what he knows by training under Pat Miletich.

And, people pissing on and on about Matt Hughes and how it's all about him and winning and such is just F'N weak and annoying. It is HIS team. What do you expect him to say? Should he say, "Hey guys, its all about you, I don't care if you win or lose, juts have fun" or some such BS? This is Team Hughes verus Team Serra. And, Serra is just as much self-involved in all of this as Hughes. Serra has been bragging on and on about the wins and how much it must make Hughes mad.

And, it did piss me off to see that Serra was happy about that hand injury. It is completely possible that Dan lost that fight because his hand was hurting like Hell. Ben had no injury. Ben also had 5 professional MMA fights to help him mentally and physically to be ready. Dan had one pro-MMA fight. And, it makes me sick to see people say stupid crap like "Team Jesus"! So F'N what if many of the guys on Team HUGHES are religious. Dan had BS to deal with before his fight. It's becoming a trend. They CONVENIENTLY allow certain phone calls, while not allowing others. AND, right before the fight. It's BS and it's Reality TV manipulation.

fantastic post sub. It boggles my mind that people think the coaches can work miracles in seven weeks to turn these fighters into champions or something.

opsy · 10-25-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooner

I don't want time-limit draws.

I want PRIDE-style judging.
The judge only picks a winner if the fight goes the distance.
Judging will never be perfect obviously, but that would be the best approach imo.

exactly, under pride rules, it would be very obvious who won.

T-Bone · 10-25-2007, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opsy

in response to you calling me cranky, and no I am not. But I am beginning to believe that the "T" in your name stands for *****. Instead of saying his post was just funny (obviously because you disagree with it) how about you say why. But I guess that's asking too much.

Well it was funny because of all the F'N stuff...like Dana White. I thought my post said that but I guess it was a bit cryptic. My bad.

opsy · 10-25-2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Bone

Well it was funny because of all the F'N stuff...like Dana White. I thought my post said that but I guess it was a bit cryptic. My bad.

It's all good. Smilies help.

DJ Big M · 10-26-2007, 03:40 AM

What did you guys think of Dan's 'toilet breaks'? I first thought he had some kind of bladder problem that they would get back to later on in the show (like me when i'm drinking). It was so funny seeing the black/white footage of Barrera standing in front of the mirror posing.

I liked both fighters and hope to see them back in the octagon again.

Sandstorm · 10-26-2007, 01:55 PM

I had the second round going 10-8 saunders. Because saunders controlled the whole round and he had dan running away I don't care why he was running but hwne you run it defintly looks bad.

eksnolp · 10-26-2007, 02:46 PM

Agreed, Dan was clearly worried bout those big knees and leg kicks in the second round.

The bathroom mirror cam is great. You know that those guys are going to act like their 10 when they get alone in front of a mirror. It was great.

With all these fights going to Serra, how far will Danzig go??? Will he be the last man standing and ultimatly prove that Hughes picked the best guy?

Gooner · 10-26-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Big M

What did you guys think of Dan's 'toilet breaks'? I first thought he had some kind of bladder problem that they would get back to later on in the show (like me when i'm drinking). It was so funny seeing the black/white footage of Barrera standing in front of the mirror posing.

I liked both fighters and hope to see them back in the octagon again.

That was just a cheap shot from the producers. C'mon, a camera in the bathroom?

It's weird that he does it during training sessions (they probably made it seem more frequent with editing though), but man, I'd be looking like a jackass too if someone hid a friggin' camera in my bathroom.

Or bedroom, wherever.

Young_Neil · 10-27-2007, 02:00 AM

i'm wondering if it wasn't the second round that was 10-8 cause if it was, that totally makes sense

basslogic4003 · 10-27-2007, 02:20 AM

I think Barrera should have lost a point for stalling. Saunders was clearly the winner. A third round would have been entertaining, but unneccessary. Hughes would make a phenominal conditioning coach, but as for MMA, I just don't think he's there yet.

stillstanding · 10-27-2007, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Matt Hughes is too tough on the fighters? WTH? Boo-F'N-hoo! So they get rough. Do they expect the REAL fights to be anything less? A lot of MMA schools beat up the guys training when they get in a training session and are going at it at near 100%. They have to be put into VERY tough situations to see how to correctly react. You people are getting too mamby-pamby about the training. And, we are only seeing less than 10% of the over-all training. You cannot show everthing in six hours when they have six weeks of footage.

And, I am unsure of all of the numbers, but each tale of the tape seems to indicate that all of Team Hughes are HIGHLY inexperienced. Why did Mac Danzig win? It had NOTHING to do with religion. It's because Danzig is the only guy on Team Hughes with serious experience with a real 16-4-1 MMA record. He is 6-1 in KOTC. He's the only guy so far that seems to have any real applied experience. Team Serra seems to have just gotten better picks and the more experienced fighters.

Why did Serra get the better picks? Well, somebody above in this thread said it already. Matt Serra runs a gym and trains other MMA fighters for a living. He has seen enough n00b MMA fighters to be able to spot a guy that knows what he's doing. Matt Hughes is NOT an experienced coach or trainer. He knows what he knows by training under Pat Miletich.

And, people pissing on and on about Matt Hughes and how it's all about him and winning and such is just F'N weak and annoying. It is HIS team. What do you expect him to say? Should he say, "Hey guys, its all about you, I don't care if you win or lose, juts have fun" or some such BS? This is Team Hughes verus Team Serra. And, Serra is just as much self-involved in all of this as Hughes. Serra has been bragging on and on about the wins and how much it must make Hughes mad.

And, it did piss me off to see that Serra was happy about that hand injury. It is completely possible that Dan lost that fight because his hand was hurting like Hell. Ben had no injury. Ben also had 5 professional MMA fights to help him mentally and physically to be ready. Dan had one pro-MMA fight. And, it makes me sick to see people say stupid crap like "Team Jesus"! So F'N what if many of the guys on Team HUGHES are religious. Dan had BS to deal with before his fight. It's becoming a trend. They CONVENIENTLY allow certain phone calls, while not allowing others. AND, right before the fight. It's BS and it's Reality TV manipulation.

wow wow wow wow wow wow!! I completely agree 100%. I am a Christian also and the swearing does get old but other than that. Great post! I beleive that you are right on.

Harms · 10-29-2007, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opsy

fantastic post sub. It boggles my mind that people think the coaches can work miracles in seven weeks to turn these fighters into champions or something.

Its really not even 7 weeks. The first round of fights happen at least within the first 2 weeks.

I don't see why people are so upset that Serra was happy Dan injured his hand. The point is for Serra's team to win the fights. If an opposing fighter has an injury going into the fight, he should be happy cause it should hopefully make it easier for his fighter to win. I'm positive that he isn't hoping anyone gets injured, but injuries are the nature of the beast in this sport. If Dan had injured his knee, but still able to fight, and Serra's game plan was to go after said hurt knee, would you (I'm not directing this at you Opsy, it is a general "you") bitch that it was cheap? I wouldn't. Serra should have been happy that Dan got injured. Just made things easier for his fighter.