UFC's judgment call on 79 and TUF Finale???

GeorgeXVX · 11-27-2007, 07:10 PM

Ok so here goes. Everyone knows that i think Dana White is a tool bag and disagree with a lot of things the UFC does. Most people like to think that I hate the UFC, but that is untrue. I just started getting very frustrated with a lot of their judgment calls since the buy out of Pride. Anyway, I have always accused the UFC of caring more about Money and the UFC then they do about Fans and the Sport itself. Now i find myself conflicted. In December they are giving us three highly requested matches from actual fans. We have Wanderlei Silva vs Chuck Liddell (Two years late but whatever), Matt Hughes vs GSP III, and Roger Huerta vs Clay Guida. Now this is what brings me to my question.

The UFC intentionally ****ed and put on hold the entire welter weight division to sell the drama between Hughes and Serra. They tried to turn this into the biggest cash cow they could. Now Serra is injured they through GSP in the main event. In all honesty GSP should been in the main event anyway so this is a really great fight. We trully get an answer on who the best Welter Weight is... The UFC is also making this a 5 round fight for a title to make sure no question will be left in anyone's mind. Awesome... Are they doing this because this is the fight that is should have been or because GSP is the only one that can step in that has a decent name. Thiago Alves and Fitch really dont have the name of a GSP. So is the UFC doing right by the sport or trying to save a main event?

Then the UFC signs Wanderlei Sivla and give him Chuck Liddell for his first fight. AWESOME. A few years late but whatever. Wanderlei is a top dog and Chuck is a top dog. Now if Chuck loses that is three in a row in the UFC. If he wins he has credibility with hardcore fans again. Wanderlei silva is having his first fight in the UFC in a very long time. If he wins he will be an instant successes. He will have hardcore fans jocking him again and the respect of newcomers! Are the UFC putting them together for the Sport or for the UFC? It really seams like a win win for them. If Chuck loses they have a new star. If Wand loses Chuck is Back. If it is a close fight they can still have a super stacked division!

Next they through Guida in with the untested RH. RH is newcomer god and raising a lot of eyebrows with his dominant fights and impressive energy. Clay Guida has had more wars then most on the top 10 for his weight class. he was recently robbed against Griffen and has laid beatdowns on some big names in the sport. This is the first true test fr Huerta. If Huerta pulls out the win it marks him as a legitiment contender and threat in the UFC. If Clay wins it is him shutting down a big name amongst fans. This is an awesome main event. Now is the UFC doing this for the Sport or for the UFC. The UFC can give some cred to RH with the hardcore fans for a win here or some cred to Clay with the causal fans with a win.

Honstely i am very confused... i would like to here from some of you. I am also aware that a lot of you on this board are UFC diehards and Dana White nut huggers so i want to know if you think RH is being fed or if Clay Guida is being Fed.

The-Iceman-Chuck-Liddell · 11-27-2007, 07:25 PM

I think they are changing because they realize they have some competition. If Elite XC gets some better production then it can be a threat. Same with M-1

GSPALLTHEWAY · 11-27-2007, 07:25 PM

basically with all the upsets over the past year, i dont blame the UFC for trying to shape situations to create megafights... i see your points, just think thats how business in boxing goes as well... i think EVERYONE wants GSP or hughes to have the belt... they are the 2 best.... so a fitch or alves fight doesnt make much sense at least yet

The-Iceman-Chuck-Liddell · 11-27-2007, 07:38 PM

I don't think we will see a "Bisping vs Rashad" anytime soon.

Saskabush · 11-27-2007, 07:46 PM

I honestly think that the UFC does whatever they can to build and uphold their reputation because it makes them money. Above all, the UFC is a business. In a capitalistic world, the ultimate goal of any company is to make money. I believe that the UFC views its fighters as commodities above all else. If a fighter has a "boring" fight they will shelf that fighter as much as possible because casual fans do not want to see "boring" fights. They don't sign great fighters and set up great fights just because they know we as fans want to see them, they do it because they know that we will pay to see them.

Chuck vs Wandy is a moneymaker and will secure profits for them in the long run no matter who wins. Like you said, it is win-win for the UFC. If Chuck wins he will gain his fans back and people will pay money just to see him fight again. If Wandy wins they have a new superstar who holds two wins over the current LHW champion. They will market the hell out of that fight if it ever happens. Hell even if Wandy loses he will be back, they can attribute his loss to "not being used to the octagon".

As for RH, I think that they are still sort of feeding him. If RH wins he will have gained some credibility in the eyes of us fans who know what caliber of fighter Guida is. If he loses, I am sure it will be an exciting war - Guida never puts on a dull show. Being part of a 3 round non stop action fight (which Guida always seems to produce) makes the fans want to pay to see you again, win or lose. I don't see RH losing much credibility either way in this fight, Guida is one tough dude.

Like I said before, the UFC is a business and they will do whatever they can to maximize profits. They do whatever they can to appease the masses because appealing to the masses is what makes them rich. If they really cared about the hardcore fans like most of us here are, they would sign fighters like Filho, Kang, Gomi, Fedor, etc and they wouldn't set up these "can" matches. None of us wanted to see RH vs Alberto Crane or AA vs Marcio Cruz but it was a smart marketing ploy by the UFC to build up those fighters so they can squeeze every cent possible out of their abilities. I wish it were all about the sport and the fighters but if it were this way the UFC would be bankrupt.

GeorgeXVX · 11-27-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saskabush

I honestly think that the UFC does whatever they can to build and uphold their reputation because it makes them money. Above all, the UFC is a business. In a capitalistic world, the ultimate goal of any company is to make money. I believe that the UFC views its fighters as commodities above all else. If a fighter has a "boring" fight they will shelf that fighter as much as possible because casual fans do not want to see "boring" fights. They don't sign great fighters and set up great fights just because they know we as fans want to see them, they do it because they know that we will pay to see them.

Chuck vs Wandy is a moneymaker and will secure profits for them in the long run no matter who wins. Like you said, it is win-win for the UFC. If Chuck wins he will gain his fans back and people will pay money just to see him fight again. If Wandy wins they have a new superstar who holds two wins over the current LHW champion. They will market the hell out of that fight if it ever happens. Hell even if Wandy loses he will be back, they can attribute his loss to "not being used to the octagon".

As for RH, I think that they are still sort of feeding him. If RH wins he will have gained some credibility in the eyes of us fans who know what caliber of fighter Guida is. If he loses, I am sure it will be an exciting war - Guida never puts on a dull show. Being part of a 3 round non stop action fight (which Guida always seems to produce) makes the fans want to pay to see you again, win or lose. I don't see RH losing much credibility either way in this fight, Guida is one tough dude.

Like I said before, the UFC is a business and they will do whatever they can to maximize profits. They do whatever they can to appease the masses because appealing to the masses is what makes them rich. If they really cared about the hardcore fans like most of us here are, they would sign fighters like Filho, Kang, Gomi, Fedor, etc and they wouldn't set up these "can" matches. None of us wanted to see RH vs Alberto Crane or AA vs Marcio Cruz but it was a smart marketing ploy by the UFC to build up those fighters so they can squeeze every cent possible out of their abilities. I wish it were all about the sport and the fighters but if it were this way the UFC would be bankrupt.

very well said... ****. I really enjoyed this post and so far this thread a a hole has given me a lot of faith in Fight Forum again. For a while i felt everyone was saying the same thing over and over again and so far all different posts all well thought out. This thread up until this point and a really good chat with TICL in the chat room have renewed my interest in this board. I am really glad i posted this!

Pitbull · 11-27-2007, 10:29 PM

I think the UFC is the same.

If anything, the UFC has more big names now that they can spread around. They may give us two big fights on a card, and the rest is "filler" fights.

I've found myself really disappointed recently with some of the main event fights as of late. I can't remember the last fight that really lived up to the hype it generated before the event.

GSPALLTHEWAY · 11-27-2007, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneBigThrow

how the hell am i ruining it?

ill discuss what i want to, and yes if people are grandpappying about the UFC cagtering to financial motive instead of the sport, then why is it that all i hear on THIS forum is bitching about well-matched fighters and fighters who arent exciting

yea, maybe i am ruining it, what the **** ever...its the number 1 thing wrong with this godamn forum its all negativity

it is an interesting topic which is why i posted, i simply point out a paradox and you say im "ruining" it...sorry to blow your high

LOL!! so STOP IT!

ANYWAYS..... i love the UFC, and i personally think its in a slow period now, and i think all those upsets hurt it... as a result, the UFCs marketing plan has been slowed, and the superfights that WERE being built up, were crushed... however the dec 29th show will be great, theres no doubt about it... and things really should pick up from there

Snow Patrol · 11-27-2007, 10:49 PM

I believe the UFC tries to do both (make money and display great fights). However, at the end of the day if they could make more money but the cards suffer or make a great card but incur very high costs, they would go for the money. So, in the end, I agree they care more about the money. However, we all know a 'good' card on paper can be disappointing and a 'bad' card can turn out great. Perhaps that is what's been happening recently; the 'good' cards don't live up to the hype and the 'bad' cards fail to exceed expectations and turn out average or worse.

Dirty Fighter · 11-27-2007, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneBigThrow

:/

im not understanding whats so funny, but basically i agree with the threadstarter one hundred percent, maybe thats why i dont care if a fight has a little less action or lacks large name talent, i want to see ccompetitive fights

If you'd originally posted in the above manner and not like this,

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneBigThrow

if you think that post is so great i dont want to hear any smack about a boring fight between well matched fighters

EVER. AGAIN.

this thread would not have gotten as tense as it has. You came in with a chip on your shoulder and was daring somebody to knock it off, OBT.

Pitbull · 11-27-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

I believe the UFC tries to do both (make money and display great fights). However, at the end of the day if they could make more money but the cards suffer or make a great card but incur very high costs, they would go for the money. So, in the end I agree they care more about the money. However, we all know a 'good' card on paper can be disappointing and a 'bad' card can turn out great. Perhaps that is what's been happening recently; the 'good' cards don't live up to the hype and the 'bad' cards fail to exceed expectations and turn out average or worse.

Well said, Snow.

OneBigThrow · 11-27-2007, 10:53 PM

in any event....

i think the situation is exacerbated only because this season of TUF seems pointless and unexciting, and then Matt Serra getting injured

if it were a competitive good season of TUF it would be so bad

(im movin on folks, im movin on)

Flying Triangle Choke · 11-28-2007, 12:00 AM

Good thread here, and I'm glad to see that people gave this topic an open mind. I agree with Saskabush, the UFC mostly tries to cater to the overall casual crowd, because that's where the largest portion of their fanbase lies. Of course you can't blame them for that, that's what makes money. It just means that the hardcore fans have to show some patience from time to time, even though I'll admit that's a hard thing to do sometimes.

subgenius · 11-28-2007, 12:39 AM

I think that the UFC (and every other MMA promotion) care more about the money. If the don't, then they go down the drain. That being said, I also feel that the UFC has tried really hard to bring us quality fighters and quality events. But, as others mentioned above, some awesome cards on paper turn out average in reality. And, some rather meaningless cards turned out awesome. There is no way (outside of pro-wrestling style scripting) that the UFC can control whether or not a fight will be great or not. Seriously, THAT is all up to the fighters.

How many people thought that Griffin-Bonnar 1 would be such an awesome fight? I didn't. I thought it would be okay. But, it turned into a war and I loved it. And, now I like Bonnar and Griffin a lot as fighters. Huerta-Garcia was also a great fight that I thought would be a dud. Koscheck-Sanchez should have been great, but it sucked. Liddell-Wanderlei may well turn out to be a terribly boring or lackluster match. It looks great on paper. But, it could easily bore us to death. I doubt it will, but it could happen. The same for GSP-Hughes.

Crazy · 11-28-2007, 04:23 AM

I think ther is a ballance between wanting to please the fans and making money. Main priorety is 100% to make as much money as possible but they can`t do that without putting on good shows so they need to do bouth.
I think Dana White cares about the sport tbh. But he have to look at it as a busniss as well. That can sometimes proberly make things hard.

Quote:

Liddell-Wanderlei may well turn out to be a terribly boring or lackluster match. It looks great on paper. But, it could easily bore us to death. I doubt it will, but it could happen. The same for GSP-Hughes.

This 2 fights may become boring in some peoples eyes but I know 100% sure that I will not feel bored. Some matches makes my heart beat faster.
I will not be able to sit down because I am excited. Fights like that is never boring since they are intence no mater what happend.
I am really looking forward to i

theEmpiric · 11-28-2007, 09:20 AM

I agree with Pit and Saskabush ... They're in this for the money....good fights= lots of money .... At the same time, at the end of the day they are gonna do whats best for them.

LABJJ · 11-28-2007, 09:44 AM

I feel that if you dont have good fights and make the fans happy, then the fans will not pay the money for the fights. The happiness of the fans and making money go hand in hand.

DoQ1 · 11-28-2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Iceman-Chuck-Liddell

I think they are changing because they realize they have some competition. If Elite XC gets some better production then it can be a threat. Same with M-1

what is this production sh it everyone always talks about? If the fights are crappy then the show (no matter what videos you put on the ceiling or who comes out with props and pajamas) is going to be crappy

Production is nice but if a small org puts on some killer fights and exciting fighters are in the shows then they will succeed. The production is like a nice paintjob on a race car. Looks good but has nothing to do with the race.

The-Iceman-Chuck-Liddell · 11-28-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoQ1

what is this production sh it everyone always talks about? If the fights are crappy then the show (no matter what videos you put on the ceiling or who comes out with props and pajamas) is going to be crappy

Production is nice but if a small org puts on some killer fights and exciting fighters are in the shows then they will succeed. The production is like a nice paintjob on a race car. Looks good but has nothing to do with the race.

Even if there is a great fight I still don't enjoy watching it as much if it was done with crappy cameras. They need money to make money. You can't put on a GREAT show without a great camera crew and quality cameras.

GeorgeXVX · 11-28-2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Iceman-Chuck-Liddell

Even if there is a great fight I still don't enjoy watching it as much if it was done with crappy cameras. They need money to make money. You can't put on a GREAT show without a great camera crew and quality cameras.

i agree.... who wants to miss the ko punch because the ref was in the way or the only cameras where behind the person?