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Originally Posted by Gygax
When someone brought up the fact that he used performance enhancers during that time, you said you were not talking about the old drugged up Kerr. .
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when I say the "drugged up Kerr" I am referring to him looking like he just walked out of a methodone clinic in his fights with Igor V, Herring, Yammomoto, Whitehead. The "Prime Kerr", notice I used the word "Prime" in the thread title that I am referring to is all of his fights prior to the 2000 GP. I am not talking about the ups and downs in his life, but his "fighting career".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gygax
Yet now you are saying "he was on roids, ant that is the Kerr I am referring to because the 'Old Kerr" was a druggie". Which is it?.
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When I say "Old Kerr" and "Drugged out Kerr", I am referancing how he was as a fighter, yes he took drugs throughout his career, but he was dominant early in his career, that is the "old Kerr". The druggie Kerr, is the guy that almost fell asleep on Heath Herring before the ref stood it up and Herring Kneed Kerr's head into the 10th row. I don't know how much clearer I can be, if you don't understand what I am saying than there is no sense in arguing with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gygax
True, there were plenty of guys participating in organizations all over the world who used during that era, including the UFC, Pride, Pancrase, Shooto, etc. But how does that make the point moot. Which guys did he maul who were obvious steroid abusers? The topic of drug use is still relevant.
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It is not relevent because I am talking about the Mark Kerr that we have seen fight, to say that if he didn't do drugs, he would not have been good is pure speculation.
Let me make it clear for you.....
The Mark Kerr that fought before the 2000GP, with steriods and painkillers would have beaten Fedor Today. I don't know if he would have beaten him without, but I am talking about the pre 2000GP Kerr as he was.
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Originally Posted by Gygax
On the topic of his opponents, which of them would you say is his greatest victory? An undersized Enson Inoue? The lumbering Paul Varelans? Let's face it, Kerr faced a very underwhelming talent pool even for that era. Many of the biggest nmes of that era never ended up on his fight card. Would he have been so dominant facing real competition, especially without the enhancement of steroids and painkillers?
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The fact is that in the late 90's there wasn't the talent pool that we have today, The best HW's back then were Kerr, Coleman, Shamrock, Frye, Severn and Goodridge. MMA math doesn't mean much to me, stylisticly, Kerr would give Fedor problems in a NHB rules fight, due to his wrestling ability and his use of headbutts. In a Unified or PRIDE rules, fight I will go with Fedor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gygax
BTW, didn't you claim he would never take painkillers before a match as it would hamper his timing, reflexes, and make his drowsy. What happened to that argument?
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I was more or less talking about pills like vikes, percs, and Oxycodones. He abused these drugs as well and OD'd on I believe Vikes. You say that he was getting injections that don't have side effects, I'm not doubting it, but I was mainly talking about the drugs that I know he was taking. It would not put you at an advantage if you were high on Vikes for a fight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gygax
Thanks for the advice as to what belongs in a thread and what doesn't, but just as you so thoughtfully place your opinion out there for debate, so can I and other members. His past drug use has plenty to do with this thread. In your opinion, he was an unbeatable beast. In the opinion of at least two members, he would not have been that unbeatable beast without the help of steroids and painkillers. Thus, that usage is fair game.
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But I am talking about Mark Kerr for his fights, not about the drugs he took.
Like I said I never disputed that Kerr took drugs or if they helped him, I am saying that the Mark Kerr that fought in early Pride, UFC and WVC would have beaten Fedor.
So the Kerr I am talking about was obviously on drugs.
1-2-3NHB!!!!!