Wrestling and MMA

T-Bone · 01-29-2008, 11:10 AM

For some reason, it seems to be a popular topic of late

, so here's a Meltzer article from Yahoo Sports:

Looking at wrestlers and MMA - MMA - Yahoo! Sports

This piece of the article is a list of NCAA champs who ventured into MMA...

Quote:

There have been 14 NCAA champions, including Lesnar and Terkay, who have gone into MMA. Here are the other 12:

Royce Alger: The 1987 champion at 167 pounds and 1988 champion at 177 for Iowa, Alger had a 3-2 MMA record, but his two losses were in UFC during its early days, being submitted by Enson Inoue quickly, and knocked out by Eugene Jackson.

Mark Coleman: The 1988 champion at 190 pounds, Coleman was UFC's third champion, winning two tournaments and then beating Dan Severn for the title. He left UFC for Pride, where he won the first Grand Prix tournament in 2000. Coleman, 15-8 in MMA, was a wrestler who was still at the world class level when he started in MMA in 1996, and his simple takedown and ground-and-pound style worked early on. But as the game changed, he was less successful.

Johny Hendricks: Hendricks captured the 165 pound title in 2005 and 2006 for Oklahoma State, and placed second in 2007. He is currently affiliated with Team Takedown and is 2-0 in shows in Oklahoma, training out of Couture's gym in Las Vegas.

Rex Holman: The 1993 champion at 190 pounds from Ohio State, where he was a teammate with Kevin Randleman and coached by Coleman, Holman had long since retired as a wrestler when he went into MMA. He's 4-2, with his only UFC appearance a loss last year to Matt Hamill.

Mark Kerr: The 1992 champion at 190 pounds for Syracuse. Kerr was considered the No. 1 heavyweight in MMA in 1998 and 1999, and his fall from grace was documented in the HBO documentary "The Smashing Machine," which vividly displayed his drug addiction issues. He is still active today with a 14-6 record. In a trivia note, the person he defeated in his championship win was Oklahoma State's Couture.

Josh Koscheck: The 2001 champion at 174 pounds for Edinboro College. He's currently 9-2 and one of UFC's top-rated welterweight fighters. He came out on the short end of what was largely a wrestling battle on Aug. 25 in Las Vegas with Georges St. Pierre.

Kenny Monday: University of Oklahoma 1984 champ at 150 pounds, and later a gold medalist in the Olympics. Monday fought once in 1997, beating John Lewis, and later lost a submissions-only match to Matt Hume.

Mark Munoz: The 2001 champion at 197 pounds at Oklahoma, Munoz debuted this last year and has a 3-0 record fighting in California. He coaches wrestling at Cal-Davis, the alma mater of Urijah Faber, and trains with Faber's camp.

Kevin Randleman: Randleman took the 1992 and 1993 championship for Ohio State at 177 pounds. Randleman was an MMA pioneer who is still active, with a 16-12 record. He has held the UFC heavyweight championship and was a top star for years with Pride, both winning and losing fights with major names including losses to Couture, Liddell, Jackson, Kazushi Sakuraba, Mirko Cro Cop (who he also beat in one of Pride's most famous moments) and Fedor Emelianenko.

Jake Rosholt: A three-time champion at Oklahoma State, winning in 2003 at 184 and 2005 and 2006 at 197, Rosholt is also a member of Team Takedown and training at Couture's gym. He has a 3-0 MMA record and is expected to be a major star before long.

Mark Schultz: A three-time champion for Oklahoma from 1981-83, and a 1984 Olympic gold medalist, he was in Detroit for a UFC show in 1996 to work the corner when there was a pullout. The night before the show, on almost a lark, he agreed to fight Gary Goodridge, and used his wrestling to beat Goodridge. But he never fought again. At the time, he was head wrestling coach at Brigham Young University and UFC was being savaged by the media. The college told him he couldn't be associated with MMA.

Mike Van Arsdale The 1988 champion at 167 pounds for Iowa State. Van Arsdale, who competed for years internationally for the U.S., went 4-1 in 1998, losing a brutal match in Brazil to Wanderlei Silva. He came back years later and although in his early 40s, still competes and has a 9-5 record, including a high profile loss to Couture.

Crashsti · 01-29-2008, 12:55 PM

MMA does seem to be an alternative for wrestlers after they leave college. It used to be you had no where else to go except maybe coach a wrestling program. Now they have MMA and can use wrestling to earn a living. I don't even think you have to be a great wrestler. You just have to carry over the work ethic training for wrestling required into MMA training. I really wish my school had offered a wrestling program when i was young. They did'nt until a few years after my graduation.

giguer · 01-29-2008, 01:46 PM

Wrestling is not that bad but can help a lot. And i'm sure you don't need to be the best. Look GSP agasin Koscheck.

But that can help a lot.

Crashsti · 01-29-2008, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giguer

Wrestling is not that bad but can help a lot. And i'm sure you don't need to be the best. Look GSP agasin Koscheck.

But that can help a lot.

GSP does'nt have the wrestling credentials of a Josk Koscheck but he does spend alot of time training with guys that do. Since moving down to Greg Jackson's camp he's been able to spend alot of time with Rashad Evans and before that he trained with the Canadian National Wrestling Team. So, you don't have to be the best but it sure helps to train with the best.

Beazt · 01-29-2008, 02:25 PM

Nice read!

I'm from Iowa and we value our college sports teams. Iowa has consistently been a wrestling powerhouse. Stories like this always makes me wonder how some of our college wrestling greats would do/have done.

Like Dan Gable or Cael Sanderson. Oh well, I appreciate them for coaching.

I'm also sure we'll see a lot more wrestlers enter MMA, which is a good thing. The only alternative is coaching or Olympic training.

giguer · 01-29-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

GSP does'nt have the wrestling credentials of a Josk Koscheck but he does spend alot of time training with guys that do. Since moving down to Greg Jackson's camp he's been able to spend alot of time with Rashad Evans and before that he trained with the Canadian National Wrestling Team. So, you don't have to be the best but it sure helps to train with the best.

I know he does'nt have the wrestling credentials of a Jos Koscheck. But in fact, he out-wrestled Kosch in his fight. But I know that Kosch win a lot in NCAA.

CapAmericaFTW · 02-17-2008, 01:40 AM

I live in Oklahoma, and I think it's cool how many OU/OSU guys have gone into MMA (especially Randy

)

subgenius · 02-17-2008, 11:39 AM

Personally, I think that high schools and universities should open up and allow MMA competition in the schools. At the least, they should train the various parts of MMA at universities in order to bring Jui-Jitsu, Muay Thai, Boxing, and maybe a few other forms (or, combined forms) up as high as wrestling. In this way, schools could produce athletes and fighters that MMA promotions would scout and draft into their promotions. Imagine an MMA draft where the UFC, IFL, KOTC, WEC, and even non-American promotions could compete to draft fighters.

GSPALLTHEWAY · 02-17-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Personally, I think that high schools and universities should open up and allow MMA competition in the schools. At the least, they should train the various parts of MMA at universities in order to bring Jui-Jitsu, Muay Thai, Boxing, and maybe a few other forms (or, combined forms) up as high as wrestling. In this way, schools could produce athletes and fighters that MMA promotions would scout and draft into their promotions. Imagine an MMA draft where the UFC, IFL, KOTC, WEC, and even non-American promotions could compete to draft fighters.

honestly i think this idea is ridiculous.... theres no way high school athletics should promote a violent contact sport.... MAYBE at the college level, but thats as far as i could go... maybe having a club sport at a college to promote BJJ or something would be good

Kurtis636 · 02-17-2008, 04:37 PM

I can't see universities having sanctioned MMA teams, the liability is too great just as it is with boxing or any other striking sport, but (and this will probably never happen) I would love to see ncaa grappling ala the Abu-Dhabi championships. I think it's only a matter of time before sport BJJ becomes an olympic even and then the next step from there is combining Judo, wrestling, and BJJ into a total grappling competition.

Obviously it would take some work to figure out the scoring system and such, but I could see this happening maybe 20 years down the road.

subgenius · 02-17-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSPALLTHEWAY

honestly i think this idea is ridiculous.... theres no way high school athletics should promote a violent contact sport.... MAYBE at the college level, but thats as far as i could go... maybe having a club sport at a college to promote BJJ or something would be good

Football? Wrestling? These are not full-contact sports? And, yes, high school football players often make "violent contact" in games. And, go to the average MMA gym, Jui-Jitsu gym, whatever, and you will find that they teach kids. Maybe not full contact, but often close to it. I can see how this idea would be problematic. But, I do not think that it is impossible. Of course, high school level MMA would never be like what we see in professional MMA. Just like boxing for kids and teens in high school is NOT like it is at the professional boxing level.

Ryduce · 02-17-2008, 08:36 PM

Some universities do have fight teams.Most of them have BJJ and judo clubs.

William and Mary has a fight team.

MTKrav911 · 02-17-2008, 11:31 PM

I think this is what makes Kimbo fascinating. He really has no solid structural base in any one discipline.

He just wants to take your head off and is so far pretty good at doing it.

This is also why I'm really rooting for him. I want to see if someone can go against the grain and just slug his way into becoming a legend, like it was done in teh old days.

T-Bone · 02-17-2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTKrav911

I think this is what makes Kimbo fascinating. He really has no solid structural base in any one discipline.

He just wants to take your head off and is so far pretty good at doing it.

This is also why I'm really rooting for him. I want to see if someone can go against the grain and just slug his way into becoming a legend, like it was done in teh old days.

He's already a legend. You meant MMA though I assume.

I like Kimbo too - if for no other reason, he's fun to watch. Granted the fights don't last long but he's one tough mutha. Having Bas in his corner doesn't hurt either.

subgenius · 02-18-2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryduce

Some universities do have fight teams.Most of them have BJJ and judo clubs.

William and Mary has a fight team.

Yep, and over at ODU they have been offering free MMA lessons on campus.

PS: MTKrav and T-Bone... did you guys post in the wrong thread by mistake? What you posted was WAY off-topic from wresting and MMA.

Gygax · 02-18-2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Personally, I think that high schools and universities should open up and allow MMA competition in the schools. At the least, they should train the various parts of MMA at universities in order to bring Jui-Jitsu, Muay Thai, Boxing, and maybe a few other forms (or, combined forms) up as high as wrestling. In this way, schools could produce athletes and fighters that MMA promotions would scout and draft into their promotions. Imagine an MMA draft where the UFC, IFL, KOTC, WEC, and even non-American promotions could compete to draft fighters.

LOL, not a chance if you're talking about full varsity status. Since 1972, over 450 NCAA universities/colleges have dropped wrestling as a varsity sport. While Title IX compliance has been the main culprit, high liability and a preponderence of injuries have not helped the cause. Statistically, wrestling is behind only gymnastics is terms of injuries per practice/game exposure. No surprise, varsity collegiate gymnastic teams have decreased greatly as well. Only recently has there been a small upswing in schools actually bringing back varsity wrestling. Based on this alone, there is no way any school would embrace a fringe sport such as MMA in a full varsity format. It simply will never happen.

Now if we're talking about club MMA teams, its an ever so slight possibility. As mentioned, many schools have boxing, Judo, TKD, even BJJ clubs that offer classes. But the budgets for these programs are miniscule in comparison to a full fledge varsity sport. It would get little to no attention from promotions as they would never have the budget that would enable them to hire a true professional instructor.

Pitbull · 02-18-2008, 05:41 PM

Gygax-Bringing the knowledge.

MTKrav911 · 02-18-2008, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

MMA does seem to be an alternative for wrestlers after they leave college. It used to be you had no where else to go except maybe coach a wrestling program. Now they have MMA and can use wrestling to earn a living. I don't even think you have to be a great wrestler. You just have to carry over the work ethic training for wrestling required into MMA training. I really wish my school had offered a wrestling program when i was young. They did'nt until a few years after my graduation.

I agree. Rampage was a good High School wrestler, wrestled a little bit in College before going over to Japan and Pride where of course he became a huge superstar MMA fi ghter who is now trying to start that here in the States as champ.

Good fundamentals coupled with strong striking and aggresiveness all the way around seems to be recipe for success in modern MMA.

Crashsti · 02-19-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gygax

Now if we're talking about club MMA teams, its an ever so slight possibility. As mentioned, many schools have boxing, Judo, TKD, even BJJ clubs that offer classes. But the budgets for these programs are miniscule in comparison to a full fledge varsity sport. It would get little to no attention from promotions as they would never have the budget that would enable them to hire a true professional instructor.

One of my friends told me a great story about the college TKD club. I guess two members were doing some full contact sparring and campus police where alerted. Following a brief investigation the club was forced to disband and later show proof that they had a Black Belt ranked instructor available to run the club. If colleges require TKD clubs to have a Black Belt at hand i don't see MMA having a chance as a college sport.

T-Bone · 02-19-2008, 10:07 AM

And now, Hulk Hogan's nephew...

Hulk Hogan's Nephew Set To Make MMA Debut - MMAFightLine.com

Quote:

Hulk Hogan's nephew David Bollea is scheduled to make his MMA debut on Sunday, March 2 in St. Petersburg, Florida at the St. Petersburg Times Forum. He is scheduled to face Jesse Lawrence.

In a press release regarding his debut, Bollea said, "The Hogan family tradition of undeniable dominance is about to step away from the wrestling ring, and right inside the steel cages of MMA. This is my destiny, and anybody who even dreams they can beat me better wake up and apologize. In my family, either you're the world champion or you're a loser. I guarantee you, brother, 'King' David Bollea ain’t a loser."