grappling with bigger opponents

y0utapped · 03-14-2008, 08:22 AM

i am 6"1, 195 and pretty well built. i role 2 or 3 times a week with a friend who is of similar size and weight. we are both pretty similar in experience and it nearly always ends with 1 tap each. we are not amazing but no what we are doing. last week we asked a friend to join us. now he is a 250 pound rugby player, a bit fat, but powerfully built, who knows a few subs but not much experiece.
oh my god was it hard work, i was able to tap him with a triangle but if i hadnt got it on when i did i am pretty sure i would have gone on to lose as i was incredibly tired from controlling him. he had told me he was very powerful but i didnt belive him, until i we clinched up and he threw me around like i was a baby. anyway, jus wondering if anyone has any advice on grappling larger opponents? thanks

Ryduce · 03-14-2008, 08:35 AM

I'm about 5'9 150lbs and there is guy in our gym who is like a black Jeff Monson,he is the same height as me,but weighes nearly 300lbs of pure muscle.The problem is that he ALWAYS wants to roll with me.I don't mind because rolling with bigger stronger guys will make the guys my size seem small.We typically start from our knees,and he always pulls guard.

The thing is I pass his guard every single time,but once I'm in side control it's like trying to submit an elephant.I went for a kimura(granted I probably have pretty sloppy technique)and he just stood up and rolled me over.But the absolute worst thing he does is when I'm in side control he'll push my head head down and leg scissor it,which normally doesn't do much,but he is so ****ing strong that I feel like my head is gonna is gonna come off attached with my spine still connected mortal combat style.

My advice,while inherently sissy,is don't go for much,work your positions,because once you go for a submission his enormous strength will usually just end up with you in a bad position.If you end up on the bottom,don't work your guard very much,unless you are really confident in it.Because once a big man gets to a dominant position you are gonna get wore out trying to get back to a neutral one.

Crashsti · 03-14-2008, 01:52 PM

Jeff Monson actually has a saying, "Strength can overcome alot of technique".

lwbfl · 03-14-2008, 06:46 PM

I'm 5' 4" and 170 lbs so everyone except two people I roll with with is bigger than I am. My training partners range from 5' 4" to 6' 4", and 190lbs to 265lbs. My key is to defend until they get tired and then submit them if possible. Usually big strong guys try to use strength and finish quick, and tire themselves out. I love this situation however, as I'm used to rolling with bigger guys, then when I get a chance with someone closer to my size it seems much easier. We train for self defense, so it helps alot in that area too. I don't suggest anyone only roll in thier weight class.

XxGnPxX · 03-15-2008, 01:23 AM

Pull guard on him first, shrimp out a lot.....its jiu jitsu, technique most of the time will prevail over strength. Just have to remember "position before submission"....Is all hip movements and trying to figure out where your opponent is puttin more of his weight and use that to your advantage...niiice with the triangle choke tho.

GeorgeXVX · 03-19-2008, 01:15 AM

I am 6'0 but when i was actively training 3 months ago i weight about 145lbs.... being 6 feet though i ussally get to roll with guys in the 185-200lb range. It was never an issue for me though because i had a few good moves that work well on big guys...

1) Fake to the arms so they will use power to sweep or get out. If you are going for a kimura or key lock from side mount and they go to sweep LET THEM and soon as they move be ready to pull guard! soon as you get them between your leg one of your arms should still be around his shoulder from the key lock or kimura... if so just rotate the shoulder and you have a supper easy guillotine just like Big Nog did to Tim... very very effective!

2) if you are on bottom and you have them in guard. use their weight against them. Keep under hooking their legs and pull them off base. Makes them work to keep all their weight together.

3) If stuck working for triangles and not being able to sink them in... just get your legs to cross then under hook his leg that is on the same side as your lone leg. For example: If you are in guard and clear the right arm throwing up your left leg to try and catch the triangle but cant get your right leg to clamp down tight enough to tap out a big man you then take your left arm and under hook his right leg and pull your entire body to it as hard as you can... this is a judo practice that works great on bigger guys... smaller guys not so much.

4) if stuck with lose triangles and pull to the side isnt working... do a catch wrestling move known as a "Brain Crusher"... what you do is after throwing up the triangle is take both your arms and put them behind your knees then reaching over your shins and work for the gable grip... what this does is lets lose on the choke and applies what is also called a temple crusher which is a pain hold. Big men usually cant with stain paid as long as small men because they usually dont get caught in those holds often.

5) if on bottom and they keep getting side control or mount just get your under hooks on the body and pull towards half guard. most people think they are safe in half guard and can be more offensive! Ask Eddie Bravo or myself... they are 100000% wrong. I love being on bottom with someone in my half guard because they arnt use to the sweeps and dont know how to counter. Just put them in what is known as the lock down. To put someone in the lock down you throw one leg over their leg that is between yours. You then tuck it under your straight leg like a triangle choke. Using your straight leg you tuck it under the trapped legs ankle. once you have complete control of they one leg you work for your under hooks. Once you have the leg trapped and the underhooks they match is yours because they are stuck in the lock down! If they try to use their free leg to posture up and put it flat footed on the mat... just take your closest arm and under hook it. Then you simple roll away from it kicking your legs behind you and now you have them in side control and they didnt know what happened. If they arnt really moving and are trying to figure out what the hell you did to them... reach up with your arm that is on the same side as the trapped leg and hook that arm and roll to that side kicking your legs out behind you to end in side control. Two very basic sweeps that i have had almost 100% success with!

6) If you get mount but dont feel safe going for an armbar or mount triangle... single out an arm and pin it to the mat. once you use both arms to pin one of his to the mat swing back into side control to set up the key lock arm kimura. If they try to power out go to step one. Any newer BJJ player will be ****ed if you follow these simple steps.

If you have any questions on anything... like if i wasnt being clear enough just ask. I promise you success once you figure out how to do these things.

Mickey Finn · 03-24-2008, 01:17 AM

thanks for those

if you could explain the last one in a bit more detail that would be cool

y0utapped · 03-26-2008, 03:29 PM

thanks, all really helpful. havent rolled with him since but will let you know how i get on when i do

x.MMA.x · 04-04-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxGnPxX

Pull guard on him first, shrimp out a lot.....its jiu jitsu, technique most of the time will prevail over strength. Just have to remember "position before submission"....Is all hip movements and trying to figure out where your opponent is puttin more of his weight and use that to your advantage...niiice with the triangle choke tho.

Exactly, pretty much all the guys I face are at least 50lbs heavier than me. You just have to use their weight and movements against them. If they try to take you down try to find a way to exert your energy in with theirs and direct it in a way that you can use to advantage your self, or reverse them. Also if you don't want to get taken down when your facing a bigger guy try to get them to direct their grappling force downward apon which can be more easily absorbed this way, keep them away from your legs, and if they try to toss you around or side to side trying to get you to fall just land back on your feet. But what ever you do don't work as much as trying to control them to go somewhere.
Their big weight advantage can also be a disadvatage, if you keep them in a position where they have to move they will tire before you do, unless you are trying to resist their movements which isn't the greatest idea unless its to prevent them from gaining a very good position or a sub. Then I find its also fairly nice to lets say almost tease them, give them a fairly good position thats close to gaining a way better position like mount, and make them work hard for that position, but don't let them have it. So their always moving and exerting force to try and get that good position.

For subs you don't really wanna try something where its strength vs strength but something where you can easily overpower them.

Bruce Lee, "Be like water"

MTKrav911 · 04-04-2008, 05:55 PM

Hate to be a smartass about this, but BJJ philosophy dictates that if you're grappling with a bigger dude?

YOU have to get SMALLER!

Best example of that recently?

Frank Mir vs Brock Lesnar.

Really watch that fight and see how Mir (a fairly large man), made himself smaller vs a far superior, larger, stronger man.

Mir executed PERFECT BJJ enough to be able to make himself smaller to nullify a larger opponent.

All the way to grabbing a leg and forcing a leg bar tapout.

That's what you should do. Even if you're "Big", you can be "Smaller" vs. someone who is also Big

Ring_Raider_07 · 04-05-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lwbfl

I'm 5' 4" and 170 lbs so everyone except two people I roll with with is bigger than I am. My training partners range from 5' 4" to 6' 4", and 190lbs to 265lbs. My key is to defend until they get tired and then submit them if possible. Usually big strong guys try to use strength and finish quick, and tire themselves out. I love this situation however, as I'm used to rolling with bigger guys, then when I get a chance with someone closer to my size it seems much easier. We train for self defense, so it helps alot in that area too. I don't suggest anyone only roll in thier weight class.

I agree w/ lwbfl. When we held smoker tournies in the army I was about 170 LBS and a lot of guys were bigger than me. I'd pull guard and make them use their energy trying to pass. Once they slowed down, I exploded and would work a sweep then try for subs.

atrujillo · 04-17-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lwbfl

I'm 5' 4" and 170 lbs so everyone except two people I roll with with is bigger than I am. My training partners range from 5' 4" to 6' 4", and 190lbs to 265lbs. My key is to defend until they get tired and then submit them if possible. Usually big strong guys try to use strength and finish quick, and tire themselves out. I love this situation however, as I'm used to rolling with bigger guys, then when I get a chance with someone closer to my size it seems much easier. We train for self defense, so it helps alot in that area too. I don't suggest anyone only roll in thier weight class.

you ar right, last tuseday i was in ju class and my partner weighed about 165 lb and is about 5' 8'' and i only weigh 125 lb and am about 5' 2". He thought he was going to get an easy win but i just waited until he started to get tired, and as soon as he gave me his neck i made him tapout with the giotin choke. I know i shouldn't wiegh alot because of my size, but is there any way to put on some more pounds, or any way I could get taller???

x.MMA.x · 04-17-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atrujillo

you ar right, last tuseday i was in ju class and my partner weighed about 165 lb and is about 5' 8'' and i only weigh 125 lb and am about 5' 2". He thought he was going to get an easy win but i just waited until he started to get tired, and as soon as he gave me his neck i made him tapout with the giotin choke. I know i shouldn't wiegh alot because of my size, but is there any way to put on some more pounds, or any way I could get taller???

Buy some gainer, and expand onto your diet. Right now im at about 130lbs and after I compete at this event, I'm going to try and go up to 170lbs, I am about 5'5 right now.

GeorgeXVX · 04-24-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x.MMA.x

Buy some gainer, and expand onto your diet. Right now im at about 130lbs and after I compete at this event, I'm going to try and go up to 170lbs, I am about 5'5 right now.

why do you want to go up so much?

I am 6'0 and i walk around at 160/165lbs but i cut to 145lbs. I might even work on dropping to 135lbs if i can make the cut.

x.MMA.x · 04-25-2008, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeXVX

why do you want to go up so much?

I am 6'0 and i walk around at 160/165lbs but i cut to 145lbs. I might even work on dropping to 135lbs if i can make the cut.

I don't exactly know why I want to weigh so much... I guess its because I look overly skinny. I've gained 15lbs in the past 2 1/2 weeks and I don't even notice the smallest change, and I've never weight 170, so I'm sure it won't make much of a dramatic change in my overall appearence, or endurance. I think I'm only gaining strength, and weight for froce. F=ma. And maybe lose a little bit of speed. Plus I've always had the long goal of fighting professionally at 205lbs. I'm only 17 so hopfully I'll still grow more, because I don't want to be a fat 205 pounder.

MTKrav911 · 04-27-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y0utapped

i am 6"1, 195 and pretty well built. i role 2 or 3 times a week with a friend who is of similar size and weight. we are both pretty similar in experience and it nearly always ends with 1 tap each. we are not amazing but no what we are doing. last week we asked a friend to join us. now he is a 250 pound rugby player, a bit fat, but powerfully built, who knows a few subs but not much experiece.
oh my god was it hard work, i was able to tap him with a triangle but if i hadnt got it on when i did i am pretty sure i would have gone on to lose as i was incredibly tired from controlling him. he had told me he was very powerful but i didnt belive him, until i we clinched up and he threw me around like i was a baby. anyway, jus wondering if anyone has any advice on grappling larger opponents? thanks

Funny you should ask. I'm almost the same dimension as you size wise and a 5'8 149 lb guy double legged me brutally last Wednesday.

Then again, he's a Marcus Vinicius BJJ black belt, so he had fun kicking my big ass.

He told me in shooting on bigger guys, it's essential for the smaller guy who may be more likely weaker, to simply keep driving forward but at an angle to throw me off my center of balance. I didnt quite get where he was going with it? But him slamming me on my ass about 12 times, I certainly felt his point.

GeorgeXVX · 04-28-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x.MMA.x

I don't exactly know why I want to weigh so much... I guess its because I look overly skinny. I've gained 15lbs in the past 2 1/2 weeks and I don't even notice the smallest change, and I've never weight 170, so I'm sure it won't make much of a dramatic change in my overall appearence, or endurance. I think I'm only gaining strength, and weight for froce. F=ma. And maybe lose a little bit of speed. Plus I've always had the long goal of fighting professionally at 205lbs. I'm only 17 so hopfully I'll still grow more, because I don't want to be a fat 205 pounder.

haha 205lbs???? very dangerous weight class my friend. Those kids hit very hard... only takes one punch to slip by to go to sleep at that point. I dont like fighting in a weight class were my technical game can fall second to a brawler with a lot of experience. I will stick with my 145lb guys with lots of speed and technical