Mickey Finn

nowadays it seems like there are a lot of fighters who seem to have brown or black belts in jiu jitsu. however i think a lot of them havent really shown ground skills that are really of that impressive a level. which ufc fighters do you think havent really shown the skills of the belt they supposedly have? and conversely which ufc fighters do you think have shown skills above and beyond the level of their belt?

Jenkins83

I heard that Chuck Liddell has a purple belt. He never uses his ground game so we never see it.

y0utapped

think an obvious one is serra, he is known for his amazing jui-jitsu but has only submitted 4 people.i personally also think jorge gurgel has got an over rted ground game, he submitted a lot of people early in his career but these days he cant seem to sub anyone.
an obvious one for the other way round has got to be nick diaz, think he is a brown belt but his ground game is unelievable, also i heard bubalu only just got his black belt awarded so he has been a brown belt for the last few years and i think his jits is awesome

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statikman

I can't believe Gurgel is a black belt. The guy is just awful (at the UFC level).
From what I hear, it's easy to get a black belt in Brazil if you have the money and the time.
I think there are too many different schools to really put much credibility on a black belt. Some guys have great jits and hold a lower belt where some black belts look pretty average.

Malf

Even though I like him, Rich Franklin is a brown belt, under Jorge Gurgel...... I've seen Franklin submit one person via armbar, and he made a sweet escape from an armbar against the cardio machine that is Travis Lutter, after giving up full mount. The only reason I think Franklin's rank is suspect is because we rarely see him on the ground, and he got his belt from his best friend.

Also, I think Nick and Nate Diaz are both brown belts, but have better BJJ than most black belts I've seen. Ceasar Gracie doesn't mess around apparently.

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Gooner

Nick's a black belt now. Got it some time after subbing Gomi.
And I agree, Cesar doesn't appear to give them things away too easy.

The obvious one that came to mind for me was Justin McCully.
That guy is supposedly a black belt. Remember his fight with Hardonk?
Jeez. Mir submitted Hardonk right away, and that's what all black belts should be able to do to him. Instead, he laid in his guard for 3 rounds.

In general I think there are way too many black belts around in MMA.
Finland for example has zero black belts, yet 3 guys from here made it to the ADCC 2007 Finals. My team-mate, who was a purple belt at the time, finished 5th in the competition and I bet he'd tool many of these "black belts" in a grappling match.

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jyd94

A BJJ belt does not equate to submissions exactly. You can use that ability defencivley, to get in better position for GnP, passing guard etc. Remember guys a hell of a lot of bjj moves in a bjj environment are not subject to getting elbowed in the face. Some guys traslate it well some don't. Hell some boxers who go into MMA don't look comfortable throwing punches in that environment. Take into account strikes, the cage, etc and it is all about how you translate your skills into an MMA environment.

OneBigThrow

i cant believe people relate BJJ belts to number of submissions

you dont even see many grappling matches finished in high level competitions, just like you dont see many pins in high level wrestlign matches

bjj is alot more than baeing about finishing fights, JEan Jaques machado said that the beauty of BJJ is that there is a style for ever mentality of fighter and is useful no matter how you apply it

so how can u judge who deserves what belt

NateRupe

Cesar Gracie's brown belt tranlates to a black belt in most gyms, according to Joe Rogan.

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GeorgeXVX

hah this thread is kinda showing ignorance to what BJJ really is... makes me laugh though

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Drewplata

Although I agree that there is no t a direct, 1 to 1 correlation between a BJJ belt and submissions in MMA fights, you would think that someone who has worked so hard for so long (and has a considerable number of wins in MMA competition) would submit their opponents SOMETIMES, if the opportunity presented itself. According to Sherdog, Wanderlei Silva has 4 subs in his career, 2 of which were from punches (I think that's called a TKO nowadays), one was due to an injury, and one by rear naked choke. And none of his "sub" victories came after 2001. His most famous sub may be one that never actually happened- he let go of a perfect armbar against Sakuraba; I'm not sure why he didn't finish it. He's a black belt and perhaps a good example of what this thread is about. With him, I guess it comes down to preference, but his desire to stand and trade may have ultimately shortened his brilliant career.

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KungFuGrip

Enlighten us please. You train, right?

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OneBigThrow

i dont think that a rational person would have to train in order to understand that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is more than just how many submissions you have in your MMA career

no a submission due to punches is called a "submission due to punches" sometimes it is called "a submission due to strikes"

A "TKO" means that the referee steps in and stops the fight due to strikes without a submission from the losing fighter

DISCO

Point goes to OBT. I remember Frank Shamrock saying after the fight that Cung Le submitted his wrist with all those kicks.

Drewplata

And (that) point, conceded. I was a little quick on the draw there. But let's look at my larger point- he still has not had a sub in nearly 7 years. That was more the crux of the post.

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Brad

Ok, Gurgel hasn't submitted anyone, but his positioning on the ground and how each ground transistion is made just shows how good Gurgel really is. Yeah, he doesn't or hasn't subbed people, but he has used his ju jitsu to get better positions for ground and pound (such as his fight against Alberto Crane I believe). Surely just because he isn't submitting people, we can't take it away.

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OneBigThrow

im guessing that alot of people in this thread would be willing to say Fedor's BJJ is amazing....

takeAnap

Yes, I agree. Cesar doesn't just give belts away. I think the belt w/ the level just varies from gym to gym. There are guys out there who haven't belted at all but could easily be a purple or brown belt. Plus, it's expensive to test out for a belt...lol!

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Kurtis636

BJJ with a gi is a hell of a lot different than MMA. There are guys doing MMA now who have never even trained with a gi or trained traditional BJJ because so much of it is useless in no gi/MMA competition.

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