Josh Barnett: "Not all Pride fighters struggle in the UFC"

Crazy · 10-05-2007, 06:28 PM

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Originally Posted by subgenius

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Jackson beat Eastman, a guy he had beaten before. FONT]

Wrong. Eastman beat Jackson the first time.

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Well, what has actually bothered me the most about the whole thing is that it's become so chic for people like you to make these criticisms about Pride, but yet you act like your "precious" UFC can do no wrong. You all keep talking about the upsets losses the Pride guys have had. But you seem to be coveniently forgetting that this upset bug has been biting everybody, even *gasp* UFC guys!!! The UFC's supposed ultimate unbeatable poster boy(Chuck obviously) first got demolished in less than 2 minutes, then got embarassed by what was obviously supposed to be a stepping stone win for him. Even two guys who you yourself have nuthugged the hell out of(GSP and Sanchez) have been upset recently. GSP got mauled by, yet again, a guy that was supposed to be a stepping stone win for him. Hell, even some of the guys who have gotten the upset wins(Griffin and Jardine) have suffered bad upset losses in the past year(with Griffin ironically losing to Jardine when Jardine was supposed to be his stepping stone lol).

The point I'm making is that you guys are only pointing out one side of the argument when you make it sound like its just the former Pride guys struggling. It's been a good amount of the "favorites" that have been shocked in the past year or so, and it will continue to happen a good amount as long as the UFC keeps up its policy of feeding "stepping stones" to guys that they want to force down the fans' throats. Note: before you cry, I also want to point out that I don't think these upsets are a bad thing at all. It's made things alot more interesting, and I love when these instances blow up in the faces of the promoters.

One of the best post I read in a long time. A lot of good points.

subgenius · 10-06-2007, 11:49 AM

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Originally Posted by Bomber

Just for the record, Eastman got the decision when they fought in KOTC.

Yes, you are correct. It was a long time back in 2000. I rechecked the records and you are correct. Jackson lost to Eastman.

subgenius · 10-06-2007, 12:00 PM

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Originally Posted by Flying Triangle Choke

Well, what has actually bothered me the most about the whole thing is that it's become so chic for people like you to make these criticisms about Pride, but yet you act like your "precious" UFC can do no wrong. You all keep talking about the upsets losses the Pride guys have had. But you seem to be coveniently forgetting that this upset bug has been biting everybody, even *gasp* UFC guys!!! The UFC's supposed ultimate unbeatable poster boy(Chuck obviously) first got demolished in less than 2 minutes, then got embarassed by what was obviously supposed to be a stepping stone win for him. Even two guys who you yourself have nuthugged the hell out of(GSP and Sanchez) have been upset recently. GSP got mauled by, yet again, a guy that was supposed to be a stepping stone win for him. Hell, even some of the guys who have gotten the upset wins(Griffin and Jardine) have suffered bad upset losses in the past year(with Griffin ironically losing to Jardine when Jardine was supposed to be his stepping stone lol).

The point I'm making is that you guys are only pointing out one side of the argument when you make it sound like its just the former Pride guys struggling. It's been a good amount of the "favorites" that have been shocked in the past year or so, and it will continue to happen a good amount as long as the UFC keeps up its policy of feeding "stepping stones" to guys that they want to force down the fans' throats. Note: before you cry, I also want to point out that I don't think these upsets are a bad thing at all. It's made things alot more interesting, and I love when these instances blow up in the faces of the promoters.

Don't act like nobody ever loses in a match? Come on, that's why they have the matches. NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING! If we all knew Rampage would lose to Liddell, then they would never have fought. If everyone knew for a fact that Serra would lose to GSP, then that fight would never have happened. There are no give away matches. There are no F'N stepping stones in MMA. Not like you think.

Upsets happen, yes. But, they are upsets because people think one guy or another has lesser skills. But, the fact is that Couture, Serra, and Jackson all have always had skills. Randy Couture has the added power of experience. Randy Couture was not a stepping stone for Tim Sylvia. Serra was not a stepping stone for GSP. Sylvia and GSP just took them lightly and lost. The MMA math that people cling to really is just an illusion.

Hell, I have NEVER said that the UFC could do no wrong. Actually, I would throw THAT claim on the PRIDE fans. But, I used to be a fan of PRIDE. I have always put forth that PRIDE and the UFC were equals. But, let's not be blind. PRIDE had gimmicks that I hated. The UFC had far fewer of those gimmicks. And, we see that the UFC philosophy has been, of late, to eliminate gimmick fighters like Zulu and Butterbean and Giant Silva. Brock Lesnar? Well, that remains to be seen. He may or may not prove to be a gimmick. He also may not show up in the UFC.

Flying Triangle Choke · 10-07-2007, 02:56 AM

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Originally Posted by subgenius

Don't act like nobody ever loses in a match? Come on, that's why they have the matches. NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING!

You just made my point for me. Thats what I was saying, the upsets happen to everybody, not just the top Pride guys, but they've also happened alot to some top UFC guys. I only pointed it out because alot of people around here seem to conveniently not mention that and act like it only has happened to the former Pride fighters. And for the record, there were plenty of things that annoyed me about Pride shows too(the ugly screaming redhead ring announcer, the non-existent title defenses, just to name a couple).
Also, you said that I think there are alot of stepping stones. I don't, I was using the term "stepping stone" because that was how the UFC intended to use alot of those guys who ended up pulling off the upsets(Gonzaga, Serra, Jardine, etc.). Like I said before, I love it when those upsets happen. If they didn't, there would have been alot more fight cards that wouldn't have been worth ordering.

dsfightfan · 10-07-2007, 06:50 AM

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Originally Posted by subgenius

One former PRIDE fighter has a belt. That would be Rampage Jackson. Cro-Cop and Shogun fell flat on their faces. They did not just do badly. Cro-Cop has fallen so far that hardly anybody (including me) thinks that he will ever bounce back. I keep my signature as a last hope, but I will likely change it soon as a matter of practicality. And, Shogun got beat. He did not go into the octagon and fight himself. There was an opponent in there, and that guy beat the crap out of Shogun.

1. Anderson Silva is a former PRIDE fighter.

2. CroCop was a disaster...shogun crawled around on his knees while Forrest tired him out and caused no damage. Yeah, he wasn't 100%, imagine if Randy looked like Shogun in his next fight (there would clearly be something wrong with him)

3. Spare me the "he got beat, plain and simple" BS - No sh*t, he got beat - what we are talking about is why. It sure as hell isn't because Forrest caused any damage.

4. Stop avoiding the main points of my, and other peoples posts. It's not just the "unbeatable" PRIDE fighters that have not done so well. Again, what happened to P4P king Chuck, what about Rich, GSP?

5. Wait untill ALL the good PRIDE fighters are in the UFC, wait till more get a shot at the title. Wait till Randy fights again, he does have 8 losses you know.

KD666 · 10-07-2007, 08:44 AM

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Originally Posted by FightFan76

I personally could care less where any of the fighters came from. They are all in 1 place now and when a guy wins a belt I am not going to sit there and think to myself "did this guy come from PRIDE" b/c it really does NOT matter. So I say lets just be happy that we really can see who is the best "in the world" in each weight division and not worry about who is better out of PRIDE and the UFC.....

I agree although I could care less what Barnett ahs to say and dana is a tool so the chances of ever see'in Barnett back are slim, then again Cheeto is in the UFC and dana hates him about as much so who knows.

subgenius · 10-07-2007, 05:33 PM

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Originally Posted by dsfightfan

1. Anderson Silva is a former PRIDE fighter.

He was also a former Cage Rage fighter. He also was a former Shooto fighter. He was also a former Mecca Vale Tudo fighter. He had a fight in Rumble on the Rock. He's a journeyman. He's fought everywhere. PRIDE fighting was not his only promotion. It was not even the bulk of his fights. Roughly one-fifth of his fights were in PRIDE. He had five fights in PRIDE. He had 18 fights in other promotions.

Compare that to Wanderlei Silva with his 29 PRIDE fights out of 39 total matches. Now THAT is a PRIDE fighter. Or, Dan Henderson with his 18 PRIDE fights out of 28 total fights. He is a true PRIDE fighter. Even Rampage Jackson had 17 PRIDE fights out of his 35 total fights (roughly half his career was in PRIDE). Cro-Cop has 24 fights in PRIDE out his total of 30 fights. Shogun has 13 fights in PRIDE out of his total of 19 fights.

So, I just do not count Anderson Silva as being a PRIDE fighter in the same category as the true PRIDE fighters that spent most of their careers in PRIDE Fighting.

trucrymz · 05-26-2008, 05:06 AM

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Originally Posted by subgenius

One former PRIDE fighter has a belt. That would be Rampage Jackson. Cro-Cop and Shogun fell flat on their faces. They did not just do badly. Cro-Cop has fallen so far that hardly anybody (including me) thinks that he will ever bounce back. I keep my signature as a last hope, but I will likely change it soon as a matter of practicality. And, Shogun got beat. He did not go into the octagon and fight himself. There was an opponent in there, and that guy beat the crap out of Shogun.

1 fighter? Nogueria has a belt and Silva made a mockery of the UFC's long time champion Franklin. Thats 3 belts out of 5 divisions! truth be told overall Pride IS doing well

PS I luv both Pride & UFC