UFC Rule Inconsistency

dsver1 · 06-08-2008, 01:14 AM

This thread has been a long time coming, but an event at UFC 85 (I won't say which, NO SPOILERS) really set me off.

The illegal move, which wasn't called, was a piledriver. Sure, it looked cool, but it was flagrant and just not called. Rogan and Goldie didn't say anything, and instead they raved about it.

Last time I checked, the UFC rules state that a foul is:
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.

So, my point (other than to express my anger) is to ask: Which fouls aren't being called consistently by refs? Or which have too much gray area?

Some thoughts:

-Strikes to the back of the head - I liked Rogan's headphone example
-Downward elbow strikes - 12-to-6 rule?
-Cage grabbing - very lame
-Hand smothering - Don't know if this is a foul, but I can't stand it.
-Eye gouging - Bad in standup, but even worse when on the ground
-Spiking - piledrivers & slams
-Up kicks by a downed opponent - when are they illegal??

Crashsti · 06-08-2008, 05:45 AM

That was indeed almost a pile driver and it would appear that Nate's intention was to spike Thales on his head. Clearly a violation of the rules. I thought the same thing back when Alan Belcher has Yushin Okami on his back and did that front flip with the clear intention of Okami's head ending up in the canvas. Luckily Okami ducked in and rolled. Of course you also have to wonder in this rule would eliminate all Judo throws where the idea is to dump your opponent on his head.

subgenius · 06-08-2008, 09:16 AM

I think that they are relaxed on the spike rule because a lot of slams dump people on their heads. People have been KO'd by slams. Some, like Fedor, recover and win the match. I am not sure it was meant as a spike in the last PPV, but it did seem that way. Then again, maybe it was intended as just a slam. Anyway, I was happy to see cage-grabbing and other rules more rigorously enforced in the last PPV.

sidewindergunnar · 06-08-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

I think that they are relaxed on the spike rule because a lot of slams dump people on their heads. People have been KO'd by slams. Some, like Fedor, recover and win the match. I am not sure it was meant as a spike in the last PPV, but it did seem that way. Then again, maybe it was intended as just a slam. Anyway, I was happy to see cage-grabbing and other rules more rigorously enforced in the last PPV.

I agree completely, I wasnt sure but I thoguht it was intended as just a slam.

BCguy · 06-08-2008, 10:52 AM

So are we going by if it is intended to be illegal or not ? I seem to remember Lesnar getting a point deducted for "intending" to punch Mir in the face but hitting him in the back of the head. Was that intentional ? And if it wasn't why was a point deducted ? We see this all the time when a fighter accidentally gets kicked in the groin. Very rarely is a point deducted. I think the refs need to get to get together and come to some sort of agreement on to what is going to be called "intentional" and what is going to be warranted for a point deduction.

MTKrav911 · 06-08-2008, 11:02 AM

I agree with BCguy. Also, I think in the heat of the moment, not every single rule in the book is on every refs mind.

I'd like more consistency with the way fights are stopped. I mean one ref will stop it for one thing, and yet another won't for the same thing. They all stop it when someone is obviously getting blasted with no defense, but then as we saw two weekends in a row now? Two fights (One on Elite and now One in The UFC), called into a questionable stoppage.

And that sucks not only for the fans, but the fighter

Gooner · 06-08-2008, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsver1

This thread has been a long time coming, but an event at UFC 85 (I won't say which, NO SPOILERS) really set me off.

The illegal move, which wasn't called, was a piledriver. Sure, it looked cool, but it was flagrant and just not called. Rogan and Goldie didn't say anything, and instead they raved about it.

Last time I checked, the UFC rules state that a foul is:
18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.

So, my point (other than to express my anger) is to ask: Which fouls aren't being called consistently by refs? Or which have too much gray area?

Some thoughts:

-Strikes to the back of the head - I liked Rogan's headphone example
-Downward elbow strikes - 12-to-6 rule?
-Cage grabbing - very lame
-Hand smothering - Don't know if this is a foul, but I can't stand it.
-Eye gouging - Bad in standup, but even worse when on the ground
-Spiking - piledrivers & slams
-Up kicks by a downed opponent - when are they illegal??

Yeah, Rogan and Goldie still need to educate themselves.

I don't agree about hand smothering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsver1

-Up kicks by a downed opponent - when are they illegal??

They are illegal when the guy who gets kicked (in the head) is also "downed".
Obviously kicking/kneeing a downed opponent in the body is A OK. Which the commentators still don't seem to get.

Kurtis636 · 06-08-2008, 03:08 PM

If the spiking rule was enforced very few people would ever get out of triangles or armbars. Guys get dumped on their heads or on their necks all the time, it happens. Every time someone gets suplexed it should be a point deduction, but that doesn't get called either, and IMO it shouldn't. That rule seems to be incredibly unrealistic. It's damned hard to control how a guy lands when you throw him. In fact, it's largely up to him as to how he lands.

Gooner · 06-08-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurtis636

If the spiking rule was enforced very few people would ever get out of triangles or armbars. Guys get dumped on their heads or on their necks all the time, it happens. Every time someone gets suplexed it should be a point deduction, but that doesn't get called either, and IMO it shouldn't. That rule seems to be incredibly unrealistic. It's damned hard to control how a guy lands when you throw him. In fact, it's largely up to him as to how he lands.

I agree to a point.

When someone goes for a triangle and gets lifted, it's up to him imo.
But not in this case. Leites really couldn't have avoided that landing. Same with Sapp vs. Nog and Randleman vs. Fedor etc.

ge master · 06-08-2008, 05:43 PM

That was an awful move I must say. Let's think about it. What could be more serious? Let's see. A drop straight down on the head. Hmm. Broken neck, paralyzed, or dead. You choose. Awful move and I can't believe the announcers thought nothing of it other than to say wow that was neat.

I think the refs in this last UFC showed some real problems. They all need to sit down together and go over things. I certainly think rules/refs are the biggest issue aside from judging. Mirgliotta (sp) to me is simply not ready for the big leagues. EliteXC event and this event proved that point loud and clear.

Kurtis636 · 06-08-2008, 06:37 PM

Yeah, after that Vera fight I turned to my buddy and said, "Guess who won't be reffing a title fight any time soon." I expect you'll see a lot less of Miragliatta and a lot more Mazagatti, Yamasake, and hopefully Yves Lavigne (who I really think does an excellent job). The pale guy with the tattoos who's been doing the TUF fights seems to do a solid job as well (Josh something maybe?), and it's been ages since I've seen Larry Landless out there who I also never had an issue with.

kev0 · 06-09-2008, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurtis636

Yeah, after that Vera fight I turned to my buddy and said, "Guess who won't be reffing a title fight any time soon." I expect you'll see a lot less of Miragliatta and a lot more Mazagatti, Yamasake, and hopefully Yves Lavigne (who I really think does an excellent job). The pale guy with the tattoos who's been doing the TUF fights seems to do a solid job as well (Josh something maybe?), and it's been ages since I've seen Larry Landless out there who I also never had an issue with.

While I agree with your distinction of who is good and who is bad, except for Mazagatti who always seems to get confused about what he is doing, aren't refs chosen for each fight at random to prevent fight fixing?

Scarecrow · 06-09-2008, 09:14 AM

I'm finished with Miragliatta...he's lost all credibility in my book. Every fight that I've seen him ref has has some bullcrap happen. I would actually prefer to have Herb Dean ref than him, which is a huge statement for me.

jplaca · 06-10-2008, 02:18 AM

if anyone EVER slammed me on my head, i would beat the crap out of them until THEY have a broken neck, are paralyzed, or are dead....

totally uncalled for on the ref's behalf as well as the fighter's