Unknown

In my recent attempts to understand the pride scoring system a little more I was doing some research with Google and suprisingly enough I actually found some usefull and some what surpising information on Sherdog.

The judging system used in Pride FC has been developed and refined by experts in the industry over the course of the event’s entire existence. The philosophy behind the criteria is to encourage the fighters to finish the fight. We believe this creates the most exciting fight for the fans and rewards the fighter who is making the necessary effort.

The criteria is as follows:

1. Effort to finish the fight by KO or submission
2. Damage
3. Standing combinations and ground control
4. Takedowns and defense
5. Aggressiveness
6. Weight differences (15 Kilos or more at heavyweight) (10K at middleweight)

These criteria are in order of priority or importance. They are considered in descending order if a fight goes to a decision.

1. Effort to finish by KO or submission:
Fighters who are striking with force and intention that may result in a KO will be awarded in this criteria, that applies both standing and on the ground. “Catch” or near submissions, as well as multiple attempts will score in this criteria.
2. Damage:
Any strike that does damage or accumulations of strikes that result in damage are awarded here. Damage may be visible such as a cut or bruised leg, or it may be shown by an opponent’s reaction to a strike such as favoring a leg that has been kicked or turning away from a body shot. A near submission may also result in damage points.
3. Standing combinations and ground control:
When a fighter lands a skillful combination of strikes while standing, they are awarded this criteria. Ground control is awarded by achieving dominant positions and holding them. Dominant positions are side control, mount, back mount with hooks, knee ride, and north-south. Neutral positions are standing and in guard. Fighters are encouraged to strive for dominant position throughout the fight.
4. Takedown and defense:
A skillfully executed takedown will score in this category, repeatedly stopping your opponent’s takedown will also score in this category. Multiple takedowns, even if not executed skillfully will also score here.
5. Aggressiveness:
The fighter who is pressing the action while standing, seeking dominant position on the ground and working to finish the match, will score here.
6. Weight difference:
If a fighter is more than 15 Kilos lighter at heavyweight or 10 Kilos at middleweight, then he will be given an advantage here. This is only taken into consideration when the higher criteria are even.

Now I dissagree with the bold portion of the rules. Although there are submissions from the bottem when you have guard it is still not really neutral. The person on top can throw better punches and if you have someone like the crow on top of you, you will be bleeding fast. The position of the guard is mostly related to when one fighter is covering up while the other fighter is punching them. The person who is doing the punching is in control at that point but the other fighter can still throw a punch that could knock the other guy out.

I also think that the person who is in the guard is controling the fight because they are the one that is controling where the fight takes place. They can either stay there and keep the other person on the ground, or stand up.

I am not trying to advocate getting a Koscheck like win or argue that Arona or Busta should have won. But I would like to hear some people thoughts on the subject.

__________________

DrumzCT

If a person is obviously working for sweeps and submisions he should be considered in control because he is the person making his opponent defend. If he is trying to keep the person in his guard while the top person is trying to pass/pound/go for submissions they should be the one considered dominant.

If you are forcing your opponent to defend himself then you are in control at that time.

My opinion.

Unknown

Drumz I wouldn't call a fighter on his back working for sweeps or submissions in control unless they either got the sweep or had an arm or was close to a triangle (If the person on top was not active and the bottem fighter was working I would consider the bottem fighter to be winning the fight but I would still give control to the top fighter)

Also, I think the real core of this argument is how much damage can be done from being in the guard as opposed to being on you back and having guard. To me if one fighter can do more damage than the other in that position than you can't really consider it a Neutral position.

__________________

DrumzCT

True, I think out loud when I'm posting so take more on the endung. I think if you are making your opponent defend himself then he cannot be offensive therefore you are in control because you're making him react to you.

You see with the really good grapplers that even when they are on the bottom they are calm and composed while the guy on top is simply fighting to maintain his "dominant" position.

Most of the time, the guy on top has the space to throw bombs and the guy on bottom is struggling to maintain guard and keep him from passing.

The second scenario is far more common than the first but I think because there are some lethal grapplers out there it should be watched and considered on the basis of who is being offensive and who is being defensive.

Look at Luke Cumos fight with Anthony on Tuf II. Luke was on the bottom but Anthony was still obviously getting his butt kicked.

I totally see your argument and most of the time your correct, top is dominant, but I think there are some exceptions that warrant each situation to be looked at individually.

lwbfl

It depends on who the fighter is on top, and who the one is on bottom. In the early days, the Gracie fighters were always winning from the bottom. There are still some fighters who seem to be more effective from the bottom than the top position.

__________________

Unknown

I think that sucessfully maintaining your dominat position would be controling the fight. I think that he would still be loosing like I said before but that is why there is other criteria.

But then the question goes back to if being in the guard is a dominant position. I think you can still win from the bottem by transitioning into a submission. But otherwise just from the guard the person on top can do more damage and from the top you can also go back into a leg lock.

And as I said in the thread on positions in the lobby I think that some fighters are better at some positions than others but I think that the for the sake of judging a fight a fighter should get 'points' for achiving a dominate position and keeping it so you have to rank them for the most part on what you could do with the position. As Pride and others have done. My argument is based on what the postion could be used for with two fighters of equal skill.

__________________

lwbfl

But what if the guy on top does nothing but stay there, and the bottom man is constantly working for a sweep, submission, or even strikes?

__________________

Unknown

Like I have said. He would still be winning the fight because all of all the other scoring criteria.

__________________

[Danny]

Whoever is working harder, bottom or top, should "have the control of the match."

__________________

Unknown

I think the term control is misleading. To be in control you have to be dictating where the fight takes place. Or in stand up be pressing the action and dictating when you engage the other fighter.

Some people say that the person who his winning as in control but that really isn't what control means.

If you are working harder on the bottem but arn't going anywhere you arn't in control. Now if the person on top isn't doing anything but defend he would be loosing the fight because he obviously wasn't trying to 'finish the fight at that time' and he wasn't more agressive or causing more damage. But he would still have control of the fight. Control isn't everything but you can't really say that the person on the bottem is controling the fight.

__________________