Tyson The AllTimeGreat

Bull · 06-13-2005, 03:04 PM

Where does Iron Mike Tyson rank in your alltime great heavyweight list?

He has the number one spot in my list. To me he is the greatest boxer ever, I respect him and wish him happiness as well as the best health for him and his whole family.

guile · 06-13-2005, 03:28 PM

In his prime he was unstoppable...He is definitely top 5, and in my lifetime he is #1 for sure. I think he could have beat Ali in his prime, but there is no way to tell.

Master Jones · 06-13-2005, 03:32 PM

Being considered the all time great for is more than being a great boxer. Its about being a decent human being too. I kind think of 5 other heavyweights that should and easly could beat Iron Mike in that catagory. Have more to say then this, will finish later.

USAFSF_Ken · 06-13-2005, 03:41 PM

I have to agree with guile on this one. In boxing he is number 1 for my lifetime.

guile · 06-13-2005, 03:56 PM

I somewhat agree MasterJones, but I am basing my opinion on what happens inside the ring. If the question was, who was the best role model in Boxing history, Mike Tyson wouldn't make the top 100 list.

Hughes24 · 06-15-2005, 10:42 PM

Mike tyson WAS the best ever IMHO....the man was un stoppable, and i agree he would have beaten ali. ali was the type of fighter mike would tear up. I used to be a HUGE tyson fan, i would count the days til his next fight.

the problem is, mike threw his own life and career away. he got rid of all his good trainers. managers and staff, and brought in a buncha jackasses that didnt know their ass from a hole in the wall. thus the down fall of tyson. now he's a joke, and an embarresment, and really needs to just hang it up.

Conan · 06-18-2005, 07:05 PM

Foreman in his prime Vs Tyson in his prime. Tyson would have tried to stand toe to toe with a guy that had size, reach and power over him. Tyson is no strategist and had no good coaching after Cus died. Tyson would have gotten his ghetto ass handed to him by a much bigger, stronger and better prepared Foreman. Bottomline is if Foreman had seen a shrink after his loss to Ali (to deal with the resulting bout of depression) featuring the "rope a dope" which was a b.s. trick that would have never worked twice, Foreman might have actually killed Ali in the ring the second go around and would most likely be regarded the best heavyweight ever.

spartan_wrestler · 06-27-2005, 12:51 PM

Tyson is a great fighter no doubt about that but he through his whole life away and for that I will rank him in the top 5 and not number 1.

DrumzCT · 06-27-2005, 01:00 PM

I would definitely give him top 5 no doubt. I find it hard to separate my dislike for him sometimes. He was an incredible force in his day though. Had he retired earlier I think we would be widely regarded as the best ever but his downfall and the fact that he keeps trying to get back just ruined his image.

The man was definitely one of the most talented boxers of all time. Can't argue that no matter how much you may dislike him. He was Dynamite.

Appro · 06-28-2005, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hughes24

Mike tyson WAS the best ever IMHO....the man was un stoppable, and i agree he would have beaten ali.

OMG!!!!

Unstoppable? Wasn't he stopped by Lewis? Williams? McBride? ...etc etc. You Tyson fanboys really do have a selective memory. For me, Tyson doesn't even get into the top 5. Who did he beat? Really? Anyone else from the all time top 10? Top 20? He was at the top when bums fought for the title. Of course he looked amazing! But, when he faced quality (Holyfield, Lewis) he was shown in his true colours....pretty one-dimensional. Sorry.

I think you guys have bought into the image far far too much. Step back, look at the record, then think again. Lewis has a far better record than Tyson, and he isn't even in the top 5 for me.

SeikanJudanski · 07-06-2005, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guile

In his prime he was unstoppable...He is definitely top 5, and in my lifetime he is #1 for sure. I think he could have beat Ali in his prime, but there is no way to tell.

Def. hard to tell... Ali was probably the most complete fighter of all time.. very smart too.

George Foreman, known to be the hardest hitter of all time.. beat Ali down for 8 Rounds.. Ali knew what he was doing.. he was letting Foreman punish him, only to seek his chance..

Ali would have studied Tyson.. and fought him smart.. most fighters at the time Tyson was in his prime. (pre 1990), were scared Sh**less, virtually paralysed by his presence in the ring.. so much that he had free swing at them.. Ali was scared of nobody..

And that is the way it should go down.. Ali was scared of nobody.

ThundaFists · 07-09-2005, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guile

In his prime he was unstoppable...He is definitely top 5, and in my lifetime he is #1 for sure. I think he could have beat Ali in his prime, but there is no way to tell.

Tyson never fought anybody in his prime. In his prime he was a decent fighter, but there was nobody worth a crap then either. Ali would've destroyed Mike Tyson. You see, Tyson is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and Ali is. Look how Ali used to piss Joe Frazier off and get him out of his game. And Joe Frazier is a far better fighter than Mike Tyson. Ali would've had Mike so ticked off, he'd been beside himself in rage...and completely out of his game. Look at George Foreman. Foreman is prime hit harder than Tyson, but yet Ali beat him too. Tyson would've been middle of the road in those days. He doesnt have the mental capacity to function with the greats.

Crashsti · 07-09-2005, 01:26 PM

i put Tyson at #3. i could'nt in good conscience put him any higher. Foreman and Ali would fight for those 2 spots. maybe if Tyson kept his head straight over the years i would feel differantly but after going to prison and biting off Holyfield's ear TWICE!! i have to put him at #3. in his prime he was so feared and in a way he still is, not for his skills but his unpredicatable behavior.

Billdolfski · 07-09-2005, 02:03 PM

you all are crazy saying anyone but ali is the greatest, in the early 70s tyson may not have been top 5, heavyweight boxing sucks now and has for the past 25 years. ali would have cut tyson to pieces, he had a huge reach and the best jab ever, id rather watch tyson fight joe frazier for 15 rounds with eight ounce gloves, but it does only take one punch.

SeikanJudanski · 07-09-2005, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

i put Tyson at #3. i could'nt in good conscience put him any higher. Foreman and Ali would fight for those 2 spots. maybe if Tyson kept his head straight over the years i would feel differantly but after going to prison and biting off Holyfield's ear TWICE!! i have to put him at #3. in his prime he was so feared and in a way he still is, not for his skills but his unpredicatable behavior.

Tyson is a typical talent, who let the outside world affect him too much with a portion of Psychosis.. and ruthless behaviour he learn´t somewhere, but not from D´amato. Tyson was unbeatable for a short time period, and that time was so impressive that people are still wishing for those times to come back.. ever since he got out of Jail.

I mean.. some of his people jacked him, some died and other let him down. He spent years in Jail.. and was never handled by professionals like D´Amato again. All that is subject to failure. We wish that he is the Tyson of 87.. but he is not.

Tyson was the greatest "hope" in Boxing.. and on the other side the greatest failure in Boxing.

You either love him or hate him, one thing is for sure.. he is one of a kind.

If I ever meet him.. I won´t diss him.. who are we to judge.. we don´t own these people... But i will ask him not to bite my ear.

ThundaFists · 07-09-2005, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeikanJudanski

Tyson is a typical talent, who let the outside world affect him too much with a portion of Psychosis.. and ruthless behaviour he learn´t somewhere, but not from D´amato. Tyson was unbeatable for a short time period, and that time was so impressive that people are still wishing for those times to come back.. ever since he got out of Jail.

I mean.. some of his people jacked him, some died and other let him down. He spent years in Jail.. and was never handled by professionals like D´Amato again. All that is subject to failure. We wish that he is the Tyson of 87.. but he is not.

Tyson was the greatest "hope" in Boxing.. and on the other side the greatest failure in Boxing.

You either love him or hate him, one thing is for sure.. he is one of a kind.

If I ever meet him.. I won´t diss him.. who are we to judge.. we don´t own these people... But i will ask him not to bite my ear.

He was hardly unbeatable before he went to prison. He didn't fight anybody. When somebody did come up with a gameplan he beat him, in walk Buster Douglas; which was before he went to prison. While the ref screwed Tyson, when he knocked Douglas down by giving him a 30 count instead of a 10 count, Douglas controlled that whole fight. He won practically every round and eventually knocked him out. Tyson didn't know how to get himself into a rhythm against Buster's fight plan. By the way, we all saw what happenend a few months later when Douglas fought a real fighter. Evander Holyfield knocked him out in the third round. Everybody brags how great Mike Tyson is because he knocked out a bunch of guys who either had no talent or were over the hill. The only truly great fighter of recent years is Lennox Lewis...he could've competed well against the Ali's, Fraziers, and Foremans of the day, but not Mike Tyson.

SeikanJudanski · 07-10-2005, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThundaFists

He was hardly unbeatable before he went to prison. He didn't fight anybody. When somebody did come up with a gameplan he beat him, in walk Buster Douglas; which was before he went to prison. While the ref screwed Tyson, when he knocked Douglas down by giving him a 30 count instead of a 10 count, Douglas controlled that whole fight. He won practically every round and eventually knocked him out. Tyson didn't know how to get himself into a rhythm against Buster's fight plan. By the way, we all saw what happenend a few months later when Douglas fought a real fighter. Evander Holyfield knocked him out in the third round. Everybody brags how great Mike Tyson is because he knocked out a bunch of guys who either had no talent or were over the hill. The only truly great fighter of recent years is Lennox Lewis...he could've competed well against the Ali's, Fraziers, and Foremans of the day, but not Mike Tyson.

I didn´t say he was unbeatable before going to Prison.. I said he was unbeatable for a short period of time.

Come on man.. are you serious? Give the man credit where credit is due.

He didn´t fight anybody? No.. he just fought every champ in the divison and took their belts..

Fact is.. he was the youngest champ ever, he dominated the divison and he fought everybody they put infront of him. The loss against Douglas is not even worth counting. Nobody counts ONE loss against a Boxer and paints the whole picture black. What do you think a rematch would have looked like? Infact.. people always go to the records and pull that fight out against him.

So would you say the same thing about Roy Jones? he got knocked out the last two fights.. is he also a nobody? did he also fight nobodies? Were they also all over the hill or had no talent? You don´t judge a fighter because of a bad fight.

I´m not going to say Tyson is the greatest boxer of all time. because he simply isn´t.. But you gotta give credit, where credit is due.

Now whatever happened to Tyson after Prison.. well, it´s just sad.. not really worth mentioning.

Let´s get to Lennox Lewis.. Ali? Foreman? Frazier? you are saying Lewis would have competed good against these three individuals? No way.

Lewis is the most overrated Boxer of all time. Period. And to put him up there with Ali, Foreman and Frazier is an insult to those three great fighters.

You said Lewis is the "only" true great fighter of this era. Well.. he is a fighter.. he is not the "ONLY" one.. and far from GREAT.

And who exactly did Lewis beat that made him so great? Holyfield? Who else of the caliber of Holyfield did he fight? Holyfiled was 37 years old when he fought Lewis.

Larry Holmes was 39, when Tyson knocked him the F*** out. If Tyson beat a over the hill Holmes.. what did Lewis do, struggling with a 37 year old Holyfield for 12 rounds? TWICE. So who did Lewis beat that makes him the "greatest" ?

If you want to talk about a true champion of our era, meaning the 90´s.. talk about Holyfield. The 00´s is not worth mentioning. Lewis had virtually no competition. Something you hold against Tyson.. but not against Lewis.

Holyfield is without doubt, the best of our era (90-00)... Lewis was just picking up crumbs.

ThundaFists · 07-10-2005, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeikanJudanski

I didn´t say he was unbeatable before going to Prison.. I said he was unbeatable for a short period of time.

Come on man.. are you serious? Give the man credit where credit is due.

He didn´t fight anybody? No.. he just fought every champ in the divison and took their belts..

Fact is.. he was the youngest champ ever, he dominated the divison and he fought everybody they put infront of him. The loss against Douglas is not even worth counting. Nobody counts ONE loss against a Boxer and paints the whole picture black. What do you think a rematch would have looked like? Infact.. people always go to the records and pull that fight out against him.

So would you say the same thing about Roy Jones? he got knocked out the last two fights.. is he also a nobody? did he also fight nobodies? Were they also all over the hill or had no talent? You don´t judge a fighter because of a bad fight.

I´m not going to say Tyson is the greatest boxer of all time. because he simply isn´t.. But you gotta give credit, where credit is due.

Now whatever happened to Tyson after Prison.. well, it´s just sad.. not really worth mentioning.

Let´s get to Lennox Lewis.. Ali? Foreman? Frazier? you are saying Lewis would have competed good against these three individuals? No way.

Lewis is the most overrated Boxer of all time. Period. And to put him up there with Ali, Foreman and Frazier is an insult to those three great fighters.

You said Lewis is the "only" true great fighter of this era. Well.. he is a fighter.. he is not the "ONLY" one.. and far from GREAT.

And who exactly did Lewis beat that made him so great? Holyfield? Who else of the caliber of Holyfield did he fight? Holyfiled was 37 years old when he fought Lewis.

Larry Holmes was 39, when Tyson knocked him the F*** out. If Tyson beat a over the hill Holmes.. what did Lewis do, struggling with a 37 year old Holyfield for 12 rounds? TWICE. So who did Lewis beat that makes him the "greatest" ?

If you want to talk about a true champion of our era, meaning the 90´s.. talk about Holyfield. The 00´s is not worth mentioning. Lewis had virtually no competition. Something you hold against Tyson.. but not against Lewis.

Holyfield is without doubt, the best of our era (90-00)... Lewis was just picking up crumbs.

Who Cares if he beat everybody in front of him? They all Sucked! The people he beat may have been champs of the time but they are not even worth mentioning...C'mon yourself...get a clue! Lewis had boxing skills....Tyson didn't. Lewis beat the crap out of Tyson twice pro and once amateur. Lewis destroyed everybody he fought with exception of one fight. And the quality of the heavyweights in the last 10 years far outweighs the days when Tyson was on top. And Lewis Avenged his loss. Furthermore, Lewis has been fighting as long as Holyfield...so don't try the age angle...ok, maybe they're one or two years in difference, but nothing to matter. Where as, had Mike Tyson Fought Larry Holmes when Holmes was the Man...Tyson would have again gotten his ass handed to him. Larry Holmes is one of the all time greats too. So, what's your excuse for Tyson now? Lewis has fought just as long as Mike and Evander...Lewis retired with one loss on his belt; which he avenged. We all saw what happenend when Mike tried to avenge his loss to Evander...he got frustrated and acted like the getto trash he is. Furthermore, Mike and Don King ducked Lewis for all those years...why cause they knew Lennox would've have trashed him like he has the other three times. Mike Tyson may be a top 20 heavyweight of all time, but to even put him in the same playing field as Ali or Lewis or even Holyfield is ridiculous.

SeikanJudanski · 07-10-2005, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThundaFists

Who Cares if he beat everybody in front of him? They all Sucked! The people he beat may have been champs of the time but they are not even worth mentioning...C'mon yourself...get a clue! Lewis had boxing skills....Tyson didn't. Lewis beat the crap out of Tyson twice pro and once amateur. Lewis destroyed everybody he fought with exception of one fight. And the quality of the heavyweights in the last 10 years far outweighs the days when Tyson was on top. And Lewis Avenged his loss. Furthermore, Lewis has been fighting as long as Holyfield...so don't try the age angle...ok, maybe they're one or two years in difference, but nothing to matter. Where as, had Mike Tyson Fought Larry Holmes when Holmes was the Man...Tyson would have again gotten his ass handed to him. Larry Holmes is one of the all time greats too. So, what's your excuse for Tyson now? Lewis has fought just as long as Mike and Evander...Lewis retired with one loss on his belt; which he avenged. We all saw what happenend when Mike tried to avenge his loss to Evander...he got frustrated and acted like the getto trash he is. Furthermore, Mike and Don King ducked Lewis for all those years...why cause they knew Lennox would've have trashed him like he has the other three times. Mike Tyson may be a top 20 heavyweight of all time, but to even put him in the same playing field as Ali or Lewis or even Holyfield is ridiculous.

Okay let me break it down to you...

First of all.. to take your last comment first.. I NEVER put Tyson with greats like ALI. Second.. LEWIS IS NOT A GREAT LIKE ALI.. Don´t even try comparing the two. Lewis would have gotten easily beaten, by Norton, Frazier, Foreman, Liston, etc.. etc.. etc.. Lewis is not even worth mentioning in the same breath as those greats.

Now.. you said "who cares if Tyson beat everybody infront of him".. well he beat all the champs.. not his fault that there was no competition. You said they all had no talent.. please explain, because just saying it is not enough. name the fighters you say had no talent... And excuse me Micheal Spinks had no talent? Thomas has no talent? Tubbs had no talent? Ruddock and Stewart had not talent? well they had at least the same amount of talent, as all of Lewis´s opponents. If not more.

Once again I ask you.. who has Lewis beaten besides Holyfield? he didn´t even deserve that fight. Maybe the first one.. but not the second fight against Holyfield.. so please name me a Fighter he beat which was so great, and made him so great.

Then you got the nerve to say Lewis beat Tyson twice as a pro, and once as an amateur.. well.. once again.. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE TYSON AFTER JAIL.. how many times do i have to stress that? So why you even bringing that fight into the discussion.

Now.. maybe you can tell me which two professional fights you are talking about? Lewis never fought Tyson twice as a pro. Where did you get that one from? Typo? well that´s your only excuse.

Amateurs.. mh.. I remember Lennox sparring with Tyson up in catskills.. but what amateur fight are you talking about. Time and Date please.

You said.. Lennox beat everybody they put infront of him.. well so did Tyson pre-prison.. duhh... You think he would have lost to Douglas again? And yes.. the quality of HW, was better during Lennox´s... but sadly for Lennox, he never fought those guys. He only fought the Bums. He never had the courage to fight a prime Holyfield.. he stayed 1000 yards away from Bowe.. why did he even become Champion? BECAUSE BOWE GAVE UP THE TITLE. Wow great champ. Lewis is the same age as Holyfield yes, give or take a couple of years. But Holyfield has gone through Boxing Wars.. Lewis never saw those kind of wars. Comparing Lewis to a Prime Holyfield is crazy. The Real Deal would have beaten him in 4 rounds.

So who did he fights that was so great? once again.

Then you said.. if Tyson would have fought Holmes when he was the man.. etc . etc. etc. yadi yadi.. well, Lewis should have fought Tyson when HE was the man.. oh.. sorry forgot..Lewis ducked Tyson.

Then you said.. Lewis retired with ONE loss on his belt.. are you kidding? He lost to 2 people.. Typo again? and who did he lose to? Two idiots. Rahman and McCall.. one a bum from Baltimore.. the other ( McCall) a certified Crackhead. Give me a break.

Then you brought Tyson´s fights against Holyfield back into the picture.. for like the 10th time.. I was always speaking of a PRE-Prison Tyson. But keep riding that train.. why not.

Then you said Tyson and Don ducked Lennox.. when? Pre-Prison? Pre-Prison, Lewis wouldn´t even have challenged Tyson with sign-language.

Finally you said.. Tyson is top 20..and? and? I never said anything to the contrary.

Fact of the matter remains this. Tyson was a devastating force in Boxing in his early career.. Fact is.. he was the youngest champ ever, fact is he unified the titles since Ali. That made him a good fighter.. Once again you are judging Pre-Prison Tyson based on ONE FIGHT. who else did Tyson look bad against before he went to jail? eh? He was the man, before he went to jail.

I never compared Tyson to Ali.. and for you to put that into my mouth is ridiculous. But what is more ridiculous, is that you are the one that brought Lewis into this.. and Lewis is a BUM. Yes, I said it. Please tell me who he beat, that made him so great.. I´m going to ask you this forever.. WHAT makes lewis so great? which fight?

Lewis is NOWHERE near being an ALI.. he is not worth mentioning. Once again. Holyfield was a great. But Lewis was a champion of calculation. He calculated his career. He didn´t fight for it.

Now, if you want to keep this thread up.. for which I see no reason, since I´m not a Lewis groupie.. and nobody is going to make me one.. let´s just agree to disagree. But im not going to sit here and argue with you all day about something which the entire Boxing world is in agreement with.. Tyson was the man, before he went to Jail. After jail.. he turned bum.. By the way.. Lewis would have gotten Punked in jail.

SeikanJudanski · 07-10-2005, 11:47 PM

One more thing.. Thunda .. since this is my 100th Post.. I´m going to hook you up with something real sweet.

Have you ever heard of the Bible of Boxing? It´s called the Ring Magazine.

Now the Ring Magazine announced every year, their "Fighter of the Year".

Please don´t say you know more about Boxing than The Ring.

Look at the all the Fighters of the Year on their list since 1985.

# 1985 - Marvin Hagler / Donald Curry
# 1986 - Mike Tyson
# 1987 - Evander Holyfield
# 1988 - Mike Tyson
# 1989 - Pernell Whitaker
# 1990 - Julio Cesar Chavez
# 1991 - James Toney
# 1992 - Riddick Bowe
# 1993 - Michael Carbajal
# 1994 - Roy Jones Jr.
# 1995 - Oscar De La Hoya
# 1996 - Evander Holyfield
# 1997 - Evander Holyfield
# 1998 - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
# 1999 - Paulie Ayala
# 2000 - Felix Trinidad
# 2001 - Bernard Hopkins
# 2002 - Vernon Forrest
# 2003 - James Toney
# 2004 - Glen Johnson

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.ph...er_of_the_Year

As you can see.. Mike Tyson made it twice.. But.. oh.. look.. Lennox didn´t even make it once.

How is it that your so called greatest fighter of the era.. dosen´t even make fighter of the Year?

On Ring Magazine's list of 100 greatest punchers of all time.. Tyson is #16.

Lennox is placed #33.

Ring Magazine rates them according to..what percentage of fights by each boxer resulted as knockout wins, how many knockouts and knockout streaks each boxer had, what important rivals they knocked out during their careers, and who they couldn't knockout.

Some food for thought.

We can close this thread up.