remember before Gracie/Hughes, people thought Gracie would win

RobOne · 07-05-2006, 08:42 AM

now the same exact thing is happening with Shamrock, some people actually think he has a chance. He is the same fighter he was last fight, except hes older. WOW hes at 100% big deal. He has no ground game, and the only thing he does have going is he is heart. I mean really, everyone was saying Royce had a chance, because of a few clips of his training that surfaced showing his much improved stand up....HA! Ken is on the same boat as Gracie. He is not much more evolved then Gracie is. They both need to stop fighting, cuz they are embarrasing themselves. Maybe they should have a UFC senior citizens ppv event. Maybe Dan Severn, Don Frye, Tank Abbott, Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Keith Hackney, and Kimo could all fight on the card. But they wont fight eachother, they will fight karate masters, and ex kickboxing champions from portugal. So that way when they win, they could all talk about how they deserve to be in the ring with the new generation of mixed martial arts fighters.

seriously whoever think Ken has a shot at winning, put your points up. I got 2k on Tito.

bayouboy · 07-05-2006, 08:58 AM

What's up with hating on all the early fighters?

I also think Tito will win but I think Ken has a better chance of beating Tito then Gracie did of beating Hughes because he has something Gracie didn't - a puncher's chance.

RobOne · 07-05-2006, 09:02 AM

since when did Ken develop devestating KO power? In his whole career he has received 1 TKO from strikes, and that was against Alexander Otsuka who is 3-12. He has NEVER KO'd someone with strikes.

also i am not hating on the older fighters, they were good in they're time. But they keep wanting to hang on, to prove how they belong with the new crop of fighters, and they embarrass themselves.

Anti-Sanchez · 07-05-2006, 09:06 AM

I think Ken has about a 5% chance of winning at best. Of course my statements are usually an automatic jinx

I just don't see this fight ending much differently than the first one.

RobOne · 07-05-2006, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Sanchez

I think Ken has about a 5% chance of winning at best. Of course my statements are usually an automatic jinx

I just don't see this fight ending much differently than the first one.

i had him somewhere around 2%, but anything above 5 is delusional

TaddT189 · 07-05-2006, 09:10 AM

[quote=RobOne]since when did Ken develop devestating KO power? In his whole career he has received 1 TKO from strikes, and that was against Alexander Otsuka who is 3-12. He has NEVER KO'd someone with strikes.QUOTE]

Yeah but he has such great biceps, and we all know that means you can hit hard...lol. I agree 100% with you, he isn't that good of a striker, he used to win alot with leg locks. Just like Royce used to win alot with BJJ. If a fighter is goiing to make it today he will have to be well bersed in everything.

RobOne · 07-05-2006, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaddT189

I agree 100% with you, he isn't that good of a striker, he used to win alot with leg locks. Just like Royce used to win alot with BJJ. If a fighter is goiing to make it today he will have to be well bersed in everything.

i mean he built his "legend" in pancrase which at the time didnt allow open handed strikes. So umm yeah...i got nothing else to add here.

subgenius · 07-05-2006, 10:19 AM

I would not say Shamrock built his house on strikes and KO power, but he does know how to bang. He knows how to strike. I don't think that he is a better striker than Tito Ortiz.

MadOne · 07-05-2006, 10:25 AM

The #1 thing to keep in mind on this second fight with Tito and Ken compared to the fight fight is that Ken now will be able to use his Legs (shooting and such) where as before he couldn't do much of anything and really whats almost as important (well it's really more so) is Ken knows he lost the fight because he didn't train right. This time Ken has been working with fighters in a way that is like how tito fights.
I'm saying that this fight with Tito should go down diffrently then before. Ken has all ready said that the best fighter won "that night" same as what Tito said @UFC 47 after the Chuck fight, Tonight he won. That does not mean next time the same fighter will win. I expect this next fight to be much more Ken > Tito.. but if Tito wins I wont be pissed.. I like Tito as a fighter and I have nothing against him as a person. I do want to see a much more closer fight and thats what I'm expecting.

Crashsti · 07-05-2006, 11:11 AM

i really respect Ken Shamrock as a fighter but i am in agreement that Ken is probably going to get beat again. Ken has a real problem with his cardio and is always gassing out. you could argue that Ken fighting at 205 will reduce that chance but everytime he cuts down to 205 he suffers from the weight cutting. unless Tito makes some stupid mistake like throwing a high kick and slipping leaving his legs exposed for a leg lock than i don't see Ken having much of a shot. Of course everyone loves an underdog and i still would love to see Ken win. on a side note Ken has changed training partners, seeking out new trainers over the last few years. he had been working out with the same group and trainers for a decade. so it is possible we will see a differant Shamrock.

trsix · 07-05-2006, 11:17 AM

I think that creep Ortiz will win
The reason being he'll probably take Ken down and pummel
On his feet i think Ortiz is below average.
Next time he runs into a guy very good on his feet he will be ko'd.
Kinda obvious he can't take being hit in his fat face.

lwbfl · 07-05-2006, 11:47 AM

Just a few comments on the above post. Ken rocked Tito with one shot in the first fight (thats about all though LOL) so he does have some power shots. No ground game? Ken was mostly a submission fighter to start with. And in Pancrase, they didn't allow closed hand strikes, so open hand was the required method. And though you were joking about Kimo, he and Bas Rutten will fight on July 22 at WFA. I still think Tito will win again, but don't count Ken out totally.

Ryduce · 07-05-2006, 12:30 PM

I hope to God that Ken Shamrock wins because it seems as if everyone is rooting against him.Just let this poor bastard win and go out like a champion.Ken does have KO power and his leg locks are nasty.Granted I don't think he has a chance in hell,but I'll will root for him till the bitter end.I feel that he was portrayed unfairly on TUF,and nobody really cares about the first generation of fighters.He has as good a chance as anyone,and I hope he goes out there and wins one for the old men.

Thrash13 · 07-05-2006, 12:33 PM

First off, I feel Tito will win this fight much the same as the first one. I believe he will ground and pound Shamrock into oblivion.

That being said, Shamrock definitely has more than a 5% chance of winning the fight. It's not that one-sided by any means. The chances of winning aren't high for Shamrock, but they aren't that low. If the fighters stand and bang, Tito could get KOed. If it goes to the ground, Tito could get caught in an ankle lock. Shamrock nearly locked one in on Rich Franklin, but Ace got out of it very quickly.

Ken Shamrock may be old, but he knows how to fight.

Tito will win, but don't sleep on the old veteran.

PghPens71 · 07-05-2006, 01:07 PM

the only damaging strikes we'll see in the fight is Tito striking from ontop of him.
I'm not sure what Ken' plan will be.. neither one can KO on the feet... I guess Ken wants to get taken down and look for a limb.

Nimmy · 07-05-2006, 01:14 PM

i bet 1000 points on a Tito win i cant see him losing in all honesty, ken will crash to a humilating defeat and drive of fin his yellow car

lwbfl · 07-05-2006, 01:41 PM

I'd fight either of those guys for the loser car!

Grave · 07-05-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobOne

now the same exact thing is happening with Shamrock, some people actually think he has a chance. He is the same fighter he was last fight, except hes older. WOW hes at 100% big deal. He has no ground game, and the only thing he does have going is he is heart. I mean really, everyone was saying Royce had a chance, because of a few clips of his training that surfaced showing his much improved stand up....HA! Ken is on the same boat as Gracie. He is not much more evolved then Gracie is. They both need to stop fighting, cuz they are embarrasing themselves. Maybe they should have a UFC senior citizens ppv event. Maybe Dan Severn, Don Frye, Tank Abbott, Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Keith Hackney, and Kimo could all fight on the card. But they wont fight eachother, they will fight karate masters, and ex kickboxing champions from portugal. So that way when they win, they could all talk about how they deserve to be in the ring with the new generation of mixed martial arts fighters.

Yeah i remember the gracie thing, that was hilarious.

Royce: "Duh Dis mY hoose, i buuild it. I gonna choke him out, help him up, send om home."

And all those who honestly thought Matt Hughes would, at the very least, have his hands full with gracie and have to STRUGGLE for the win. Matt beat him like he was a ufc rookie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobOne

seriously whoever think Ken has a shot at winning, put your points up. I got 2k on Tito.

In TUF3 Tito not only proved himself to be a great coach, but an A-Ok guy too dispite his reputation hyped by some as a white-trash scumbag.

Still even though i doubt he'll win, i *WANT* to see ken win! A victory and final F-You to Tito would be a great win to retire& go out on. I would rather not see ken get beaten like a little girl and then look like *shudder* Mike tyson afterwards. I think Ken is a better guy than Tyson.

Psysically i think Ken still has the tools, but lacks the sheer drive and hunger that helped get him where he is today. I hope he is serious about his utter hatred for Ortiz, maybe that'll be the fire necessary to get him one last big UFC win before retirement.

I have not deceided if i want to bet any points on him though

lwbfl · 07-05-2006, 02:20 PM

White trash, I thought he was hispanic?

Grave · 07-05-2006, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lwbfl

White trash, I thought he was hispanic?

Looks plenty white to me