Bj Penn

Harms · 09-24-2006, 12:20 PM

Well it is pretty obvious what he needs to do, conditioning. Train like he cares. If not, he will be one of those ppl who everyone says he was so talented, he just couldn't reach his potential. Unlike Sub, I don't think he is done. I'd like to see him fight Karo or Diego.

Ryduce · 09-24-2006, 12:22 PM

Reluctantly I have to agree with Sub on this one.I'm tired of sitting around saying "If he did this",or "If his cardio was."

BJ is content on wasting his talent,and will continue to do so.

Hughes just solidified his status as greatest WW ever,and I look forward to his upcoming matches with GSP and Diego.

But I still will maintain that the only person who can beat BJ is himself.

Ray433 · 09-24-2006, 01:28 PM

I just don't get why all of a sudden gassing is a legitimate excuse for losing a fight? Everyone is saying well Hughes was done if BJ hadn't gasses, and Hughes couldn't beat a fresh Penn, but plain and simple the biggest part of fighting is the training and the prep, and if Penn doesn't want to do that then fine, but all the natural talent in the prodigy then won't make up for it when he fights guys at the top level, guys like Hughes and GSP and now Diego, who have the talent, and are also willing to put in the time and effort, he will simply continue to gas and lose.
And since Penn refuses to fight guys in the UFC that he considers below his level, then I don't think he is going to have the amazing career and legacy that he really should.

Dogg · 09-24-2006, 01:58 PM

Well, we'll never know unless there's a 3rd fight. If there's a 3rd, and BJ wises up and maximizes his cardio, I can't help but think after what I seen last night that BJ beats Hughes. I believe he does have his number. Until then, yes Matt Hughes deserved the win.
Another thing for Sub. How many times have you heard, "when they smile it's because they're hurt". I'd guess that even you probably said it once or twice. BJ was eating him up with those punches, so where you figure they're dreadful is a little ridiculous. You're boy took 4 consecutive punches and decided it was time for a time-out.

Bomber · 09-24-2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogg

If there's a 3rd, and BJ wises up and maximizes his cardio,

The problem is, BJ should have known to work on his cardio after the loss to GSP. A champ has to be able to go 5 rounds in every fight. No matter how good Penn is, he can't ever be champ unless he can fight for 5 rounds, and frankly I don't think he will ever be that conditioned. Too bad, he really is The Prodigy when it comes to outright fighting skills.

The_Iceman · 09-24-2006, 02:07 PM

Penn LOST his fight, because it was all BJ until the third, when he started to gas and Matt took advantage of that and got on top and did what could only do to win the fight, that tying his arms in a crucifix (Shades of the Newton UK fight) so he couldn't fight back.

Also, at the end of the fight he disrespected BJ by saying he should have trained for 5 rounds saying that he dominated the fight, give me a break. And after the bout when Matt spoke about how he won, he deserved to get cut off when GSP took the mic from Joe and said that he wasn't impressed with his win over BJ. which I agreed with.

Ya, I'd say he dominated him just like he dominated every other fighter he fought...RIGHT

LMFO He escapes defeat by either subing or slamming his opponents to a decision.

I can't wait until GSP puts his country breakfast a$$ in his place and finally shut him up as he will dominate him like he did in there first fight but with St- Pierre finishing on top, as the NEW UFC Welterweight Champion!

subgenius · 09-24-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogg

Well, we'll never know unless there's a 3rd fight. If there's a 3rd, and BJ wises up and maximizes his cardio, I can't help but think after what I seen last night that BJ beats Hughes. I believe he does have his number. Until then, yes Matt Hughes deserved the win.
Another thing for Sub. How many times have you heard, "when they smile it's because they're hurt". I'd guess that even you probably said it once or twice. BJ was eating him up with those punches, so where you figure they're dreadful is a little ridiculous. You're boy took 4 consecutive punches and decided it was time for a time-out.

You should not think of a smile after a hit as a hard and fast rule. That statement is something for commentators and audiences, but it is not 100% rock solid fact. It is just something people say when they see the smile, but there is no fact or proof to establish it as a fact. Those strikes were dreadful because they were really all that Penn had to offer and they failed. Matt was never KO'd by Penn in last night's fight. I dare say that he was not even really "rocked" as Rogan says ALL THE TIME.

Time out? You better define that statement, because there are no time-outs in MMA (that I know of, other than the referee calling for one). Penn's ability to strike is becoming a joke. The guy has not KO'd anyone in many years. I submitt that he never will KO anyone ever again. His power is not that great. His cardio and conditioning are so poor that he lacks the stamina and power to be affective.

That is why he throws punches with thumb extended. It seems to me that he either is doing it for the eye-poke hoping to win that way, or he is becoming the worst striker in the UFC.

subgenius · 09-24-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Iceman

Penn LOST his fight, because it was all BJ until the third, when he started to gas and Matt took advantage of that and got on top and did what could only do to win the fight, that tying his arms in a crucifix (Shades of the Newton UK fight) so he couldn't fight back.

Also, at the end of the fight he disrespected BJ by saying he should have trained for 5 rounds saying that he dominated the fight, give me a break. And after the bout when Matt spoke about how he won, he deserved to get cut off when GSP took the mic from Joe and said that he wasn't impressed with his win over BJ. which I agreed with.

Ya, I'd say he dominated him just like he dominated every other fighter he fought...RIGHT

LMFO He escapes defeat by either subing or slamming his opponents to a decision.

I can't wait until GSP puts his country breakfast a$$ in his place and finally shut him up as he will dominate him like he did in there first fight but with St- Pierre finishing on top, as the NEW UFC Welterweight Champion!

Do you want some whine with your cheese.

Hughes was right. THAT makes all of you Penn fans MAD as Hell. You hate Hughes because he said the truth. You CANNOT deny that Hughes was 100% correct. He dominated Penn in round three. Penn was not ready for three rounds much less five (forget that).

I am a big fan of GSP, but he had no business stealing the spotlight from Hughes unless White put GSP up to it to hype the next fight. With Penn's terrible performance, White likely figured he needed a distraction. And, as we all know FULL WELL, Penn was TKO'd by Hughes. GSP only got a split decision. It is NOT like GSP to then say that Hughes' performance was less than impressive when it was in fact VERY impressive.

GSP has 100 times more chance to defeat Hughes than Penn ever had. It will be the fight of the century -- a real war -- between Hughes and GSP. But, GSP will have his hands full. Hughes beat GSP before. GSP has a lot to prove.

Jras0001 · 09-24-2006, 02:22 PM

Penn gassed out and Hughes capitolized on it in the 3rd round and pulled out the victory. He was being beat badly untill that point. I would have really liked to have seen Penn win that fight but if he cant come into an important fight like that, in shape and ready to go, knowing it has the possibility to go five rounds...well, then he didnt deserve to win that fight.

From what I heard, he signed a three fight deal with the UFC. I think it would be a good idea to let Penn and Diego fight. If Diego can get past someone like Penn, then he should get the next title shot. I dont care for diego that much but he hasnt lost yet and this is a step up in competition for him so lets see how he does.

RockemSockem · 09-24-2006, 04:05 PM

You guys say Sub is blind to the truth, do you not realize the role cardio plays in fights? BJ Penn is known for having cardio problems, and made a statement that he wasn't even doing his normal training(which wasn't top notch) to put him in the right mental state. You're crazy if you think it wasn't part of Matt Hughes' gameplan to wear out BJ and make him gas. Now i'm not saying Hughes tried to get caught in a RNC or anything of the kind, but he looked uncomfortable to me for maybe 10 seconds of that fight. Look at the choke. He sat there, not even trying to escape for a while. It wasn't in tight, and he wasn't turning red. Then when he started trying to escape is sunk in deep but only for a few seconds. When he thrust up right before he got out, BJ lost the choke completely. It looked to me he was trying to gas BJ out, but that's just my opinion. It's sad to see so many people say that a BJ with better cardio would own Hughes. Accept that your fighter lost. Both these fighters are good enough to beat each other at any time. There are lists of arguements as to why each is the better fighter. But Hughes won, so lets accept that and move on.

MTKrav911 · 09-24-2006, 04:10 PM

He needs to spend time with Team Punishment in big Bear. 6 weeks is plenty of time if you train with the right people. Screwing around rolling or whatever isn't going to cut it. It's about oxygen consumption. And Big Bear is the best place to learn how to deal with oxygen deprivation.

It's all about how you deal with that. I don't care if you know everything in the book about fighting. Without knowing how to overcome lack of O2. You're going to get your ass kicked! PERIOD!

That's a hard fact for some fighters to learn. They think their skill is all it takes to win a fight. I'll put my money EVERY TIME on the guy who maybe isnt as skilled, but can go forever through out-conditioning his opponent.

I like Penn, but if he ever wants his belt back, he's going to need to get serious about his conditioning training.

Grave · 09-24-2006, 04:12 PM

Either way you look at it, the Country Breakfest DESTROYED BJ Penn you guys.

I agree with Matt, Penn should've TRAINED 5 rounds instead of *2*.

Maybe if this was TUF-style 2 round fight, penn could have weaseled his way out with a decision. But not a UFC 5-round title match

RockemSockem · 09-24-2006, 04:16 PM

When you use words like destroy and put it in all capitals that's what makes all the hardcore BJ Penn fans go crazy. We've got a million pages of that **** already. Hughes didn't destroy Penn. Penn didn't destroy Hughes. It was a good fight. Hughes came out on top. Props to him.

Grave · 09-24-2006, 04:18 PM

Matt Hughes Pinned down BJ, like he was his B*tch, and DESTROYED him.

It does NOT matter what happened in the 2 rounds prior, Matt DESTROYED him in round 3 for the win. Simple as that.

Live with it, accept it, whatever. But do not deny it.

RockemSockem · 09-24-2006, 04:24 PM

It does matter what happened the 2 rounds before that, they were past of the fight too. Matt Hughes won by stoppage, that's an amazing feat against BJ Penn and i'm not trying to take anything away from that. But losing a fight isn't getting destroyed. If Hughes picked him apart for a few rounds or quick KOed or submitted him i might agree using "destroyed", but it was a back and forth fight. Penn deserves his props as well. He fought the champion with 6 weeks notice and did well until he gassed.

MTKrav911 · 09-24-2006, 04:25 PM

All I know, is Hughes Standup looks like amateur crap especially for a guy who's a 7 time defending UFC champ.

Hughes is big strong and has endurance. That's about it. He's not great at Jiu Jitsu, he's not great at standup, he has good wrestling.

That's about it.

One day, someone will catch him. and that someone????

GEORGE ST PIERRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bj, Join Team Punishment and you'll be back on top.

RockemSockem · 09-24-2006, 04:26 PM

In my opinion BJ's ego is too big for team punishment.

sanjeevjoseph · 09-24-2006, 04:57 PM

First of all, it's like beating a dead horse that BJ had a good chance of winning if he could have lasted for the whole fight. Cardio was an issue and there isn't anyone that can deny that. All he needed to do to win the fight was win the third round and stay "alive" for the next two and he had the fight in the bag. Even better, if he could have trapped in some kind of a submission that would have cut down a lot of time, considering his cardio issues. But trying to submit a guy like Hughes is like submitting a rhino. The only way is to use all your strength and hope you can hold on and tire him out. Probably not likely, but that's where the cardio comes into play.

Let's not forget that BJ is coming up a weight class to fight in this division. id you notice that BJ was 166lbs while Hughes was the full 170? What does this tell you? The only way BJ can win in these fights with these contenders is to up the cardio. Maybe even try and gain a little strength in the process. If he could fill out his frame to the full 170, it'll do him a lot of good. Keep in mind that Hughes is 170 at weigh in, not for the actual fight. This is the case with most of these guys. And when you have 170+ pummelling your head into the canvas while both arms are tied up in a crucifix, cardio and strength are more important than any skill you may have learned in a highly illustrious world renowned career.

Let's face it folks, BJ has all the talent he needs to make it in the UFC. Things like the double leg hooks that he used against Hughes and the single leg hook used against GSP in the final seconds of their fight are quite impressive. They would impress any fan and the audience loves it. Will it win a fight and sway the judges, probably not. It consumes energy to maintain those positions and it does little to the opponent, especially when it's GSP and Hughes on the receiving end.

BJ needs to focus on cardio and strength. And he needs to do it in such a way that it won't compromise his incredible flexiblity. Because if it is in fact a close fight and in the last seconds he does tie his opponent up with some sort of oddly contorted submission hold that looks impressive, he just might be able to squeeze out a win. After all, BJ is now at the point where he is going to have to impress the judges to get a decision win after his last two performances.

Bomber · 09-24-2006, 05:13 PM

BJ needs to focus on cardio and strength.

I didn't see anything in this fight that led me to believe strength was an issue. Stuffing Matt's takedown attempts shows pretty good strength. BJ's cardio really is beating a dead horse. Everyone knows he has to bring up his cardio to compete on a championship level, including BJ. The question is, will he do what's required? The answer appears to be "no", or else he would have done so after the fight with GSP.

lwbfl · 09-24-2006, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockemSockem

In my opinion BJ's ego is too big for team punishment.

OMG, what a staement there! All of Team Punishment has huge egos man, he'd fit right in!

I have a question for all of you, I was yelling for Matt to use elbows instead of those little punches that he was using at the end of the fight. One of my training partners wanted to say that he couldn't use an elbow in that position due to BJ being under him. Who else thinks that elbows would have stopped the fight more quickly, and they were there for the taking? The fight was stopped not because Penn was getting hurt, just in a position where he could neither improve nor defend himself. No way were those shots doing damage, but that is perfect elbow range!