Bull

1. Lamon Brewster - in my book he really is the number one.
2. Hasim Rahman - I expect him to beat both Barrett and Klitschko.
3. John Ruiz - although many boxing fans dislike him, I rate him high because he is a true fighter.
4. Samuel Peter - hope he proves his ranking by defeating Wladimir Klitschko.
5. James Toney - beat Ruiz with the use of steroids. Scheduled to fight Dominick Guinn I think.
6. Chris Byrd - he is pretty good, just lacks punching power I think.
7. Monte Barrett - big heart, good skills.
8. Vitali Klitschko - many believe he is the man to beat.
9. Calvin Brock - beat Jameel McCline by UD and Etienne in round 3.
10. Juan Carlos Gomez - highly skilled boxer when focussed.

What do you think??

TaddT189

Klitschko is #1 he is a good boxer in a weak class. Beat Lennox before he retired, and Lennox beat alot of these guys. How is Ruiz #3 if he got beat by Toney, Klitschko would KO him in at least 4 rds.

1. Klitschko
2. Byrd
3. Toney

SmashingMachine

James Toney is the only fighter in the heavyweight divison with any boxing skills anymore. The rest should just retire. The sport of boxing really bums me out anymore. There's nobody even worth watching...the talent is just so shallow.

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SeikanJudanski

I hear you.. the HW divison is a big disappointment at the moment, at least we got good fighters in the lighter divisions.

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Bull

Don't get it.
Lennox beat Vitali, Byrd beat Klitschko and Toney did not beat Ruiz (steroids). Please explain.

SmashingMachine

I thought Lennox won that fight too, but I haven't really followed boxing in the last year or so...at least not as much as I used to. I didn't want to say he did, then be proved wrong, but thanks for confirming.

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TaddT189

If you didn't watch the Lennox fight let me explain it to you, they stood toe to toe and slugged. Klitschko won majority of the exchanges but the fight was stoped at the end of the 6th because of the nasty cut over his left eye. "I could see well. That's why I'm disappointed in the decision" is what Vitali said about the stoppage. About the decision he said this, "I know it's my fight -- and I win the fight. This decision gives a big present to Lennox Lewis." After six he was ahead on all three ringside judges scorecards. Vitali wanted a rematch, He called Lewis out many times after the fight. I don't know what happened with that I know it's just not that easy to put a fight together but I think if Lewis wanted to fight him as much as Vitali wanted another shot at Lewis I think they would have fought. As for Ruiz, he is a second class boxer in this weight division(As for beating the big name fighters in the division) and hyped up by the media and promoters. Golata Knocked him down twice and in my opinion should've won the fight. You can't trust decisions today just like De La Hoya vs. Mosely II and Hopkins vs. Taylor.

Bull

As you know English is not my first language ... are you saying John Ruiz has not beaten big name fighters?

shotime79

What big names did he beat besides an over the hill Holyfield?

SeikanJudanski

You got a point there..

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TaddT189

I say Klitschko is # 1 because he was winning the fight against Byrd, untill he had to stop because of a shoulder injury. Who is my # 2, I think Byrd would beat Toney. Since Toney failed a drug test due to steroids I have lost alot of respect for him, you never know how much of his success was due to the banned substance.

P.S.-John Ruiz did beat Rahman, but I don't think he is better that Rahman, or Bryd, Klitschko (either one), Toney or, Gollata (haha)

SeikanJudanski

Klitschko didn´t have a chance against Byrd in that fight.

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TaddT189

Are you serious? Vitali was whippin him like a stray dog untill he had to stop. Even Byrd admitted that he thought he was losing. I really don't understand, could you explain to me further?

SeikanJudanski

What´s there to explain? Klitschko had no answer to Byrd, everytime Klitschko tried to jab him, Byrd met his fist with his own, throwing Klitschko completely out of his game.. Why you think he got injured? Byrd was beating on his arm the whole time.. the only good scene Vitali had was in the first round and when he took Byrd to the ropes..

Can you please provide the quote of Byrd saying he was losing?

Here is for a fact what he said after the fight.

"This [Klitschko] was a 6ft 8ins boxing guy," said the triumphant Byrd. "Guys like Lennox Lewis, Michael Grant, I’ll make them miss all day. I frustrate a big man, that’s why he [Klitschko] got on his toes. I’m 210lbs and I walk him down — what kind of stuff is that? He’s 235lbs [actually 244lbs], 6ft 8ins — that’s crazy!

"Like I always said, I’ll fight any heavyweight in the world, any time.

"Look at me: I’m in Berlin, I’ve lost 8lbs since I’ve been here. I’m a 210lbs, blown-up super middleweight and they don’t want to fight me. Bring ’em!"

Doesn´t sound like Byrd was admitting to losing to anybody. Infact he sounded very cocky.


And let´s look at what Lee Hayes said about the fight, which is exactly the way I saw it too...


Klitschko (27-1, 27 KO's) started strong in the first round controlling the action with a pawing left hook and a lumbering right hand. Klitschko (244) as always appeared robotic and less than fluid as he unloaded a variety of shots on Byrd (31-1, 19 KO's). The left-handed challenger was effectively able to slip a number of punches and had the ability to continually slip Klitschko's jabs. The champion moved his attack to the body and landed a significant number of powerful blows to the ribs and the belly. However, when Klitschko returned to his corner he seemed to be favoring his left arm.

By the fifth round the champion looked like he was starting to run low on fuel. Klitschko seemed listless and unable to solve the portside dancer. At the 1:55 mark of the 5th, Byrd connected with a sharp left hand counter that caught the champion flush on the chin. Moments later, Byrd connected yet again when he scored with a double left hook to the face. Both men traded shots on the inside and with 15-seconds to go in the round, Byrd landed yet another crisp counter left hand to the head. The German crowd came to life after the fifth round and cheered the challenger while he returned to his corner.

Klitschko still seemed in control of the bout in the ninth round but he was also tiring. The champion opened the 9th with a volley of punches and at the 2:01 mark, some of which hit their target. Byrd, 6'1 ½", returned fire and scored with a series of stinging left-hand counters at the 1:47 mark. With just seconds remaining in the 9th, Byrd rallied yet again and connected with a three-punch combination that rattled off the champion's face.

Between rounds Klitschko's corner worked on their injured boxer but ultimately it was the champion's decision to withdraw. Klitschko refused to answer the bell and remained seated while across the ring a shocked Chris Byrd celebrated the stunning victory. The win for Byrd sets up an excellent opportunity for the former United States Silver medallist in the 1992 Games, to face some of the top heavyweights in the sport.

"It means a lot. I can get more fights now, Byrd said. "They don't want to fight me. I mean this guy was a 6'8" boxing guy. Guys like [Lennox] Lewis and Michael Grant, they come straight ahead. I can make them miss all day long."

"I will come back into the ring sound and I will win back my title," Klitschko maintained before leaving the ring.

This could hardly be described as an excellent or thrilling fight. It could best be described as pallid. However, anytime one of the heavyweight belts changes hands it is notable and in the case of Mr. Byrd, simply stunning.

Of course at the end of the day.. people will say, it was due to Klitschko´s shoulder.. I say BS.

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SeikanJudanski

Here is another article... with a very nice round for round analysis, from saddoboxing.

Entering the ring on fight night, laughter could be heard amongst the classless spectators, who thought Byrd’s size was hilarious. What followed would wipe the smug grins off of their face. Vitali entered the ring to what Jim Lampley described at the time as a “Heavyweight version of a Naseem Hamed entrance”.

The fight got off simply enough, Klitschko used his physical attributes to dominate the first few rounds. Byrd ducked and dodged his way defensively to avoid as many of his blows as he could. It looked like a modern day David and Goliath. Only when Jack Demspey fought Jess Willard for the title 80 years previous, had their been such an obvious disparity in a heavyweight affair. Unfortunately for Chris, he did not share Jack’s startling KO power. As Klitschko continued to pile up points, one thing became obvious to the unbiased, conscientious observer. Byrd was finding Vitali’s mid section incredibly easy to tag, and with the same short left hands that would later rock David Tua, Evander Holyfield and Andrew Golota. The effects were not explosive, or immediate, but after two minutes of the second round, Vitali’s mouth already began to hang agape.


Klitschko would nail Byrd with the kind of shots that had felled 27 previous opponents, however much to Vitali’s chagrin, Chris was able to either roll with the shots, avoid them out right, or simply take them. Vitali would push down on Byrd’s back whenever Chris tried to bob and weave under his shots and for obvious reasons, Byrd was unable to hit Vitali’s face cleanly. He continued hitting the one area that was open to him, the body. Most of Byrd’s power punches in the fight were to the abdomen. They clearly made Klitschko feel uncomfortable. Still, Vitali was landing the harder blows, and obviously winning the fight. As he returned to his corner after round two, Byrd said confidently to his dad, Joe Byrd, “I’ll wear him out (nod) I’m gonna wear him out”. I couldn’t help but wonder how a small Evander Holyfield would have done against this 6'8, 245lbs giant, knowing how Holyfield generally struggled with anyone over 6'4. Byrd was fighting an even bigger opponent than the “Real Deal” had, and he was smaller to begin with.

Now much has been made about Vitali Klitschko’s torn rotator cuff and it’s effects on the fight, but I have long believed that if he did in fact hurt his shoulder, it was more to do with the way Byrd kept pawing down Vitali’s multiple attempts to land jabs on the slick south paw. (Anybody that has ever boxed a lefty knows that it can be very wearing on the shoulder as hands continually collide).

Now, some say that Vitali entered the ring with an injury that night(he himself has claimed that is false), and some say it happened as early as the second round. I’ve also read that it was injured in the third or fourth, depending on the source. I’ll give Vitali the benefit of the doubt and assume that it happened late.

Based on the revisionist history I now see amongst newer boxing fans regarding this fight, I have decided to do a compilation of the amount of punch attempts that he made from during the 5th round on (and a slight play by play of some other interesting events):

Round 5: Klitschko throws 62 attempts with his left hand (albeit that most of them were more pawing motions), of those 9 land. This is Byrd’s best round so far in the fight, as he actually begins picking up the pace, and as Larry Merchant describes “doing what he should...making him pay when he misses”. Vitali is showing no signs of a sore shoulder or being in pain. Also notable, the crowd begins to cheer for Byrd with every combination he lands. Compubox says that Vitali throws 62 official punches (as Compubox does not count pawing half jab motions, however I have to clearly display how uninjured his shoulder actually was at this time) landing 13. Byrd throws 38, landing 19.

Round 6: Klitschko again paws with Byrd using his left arm. They are not full jabs, but merely half jabs that are common when a conventional fighter faces a south paw, however, it seems incredibly unlikely that a fighter would throw a total of 110 of these pawing half jabs with an arm with a torn rotator cuff. Klitschko does. He lands 6 of them. Again, Byrd’s offense is up and he’s landed some nice counter left’s to the head that backed Vitali up. For two consecutive rounds Byrd is actually pushing Vitali back with offense, or as he would later refer to it “walking him down”. Still no mention of an injury in Vitali’s corner. What can be seen in between the 6th and 7th rounds, is Vitali clearly using his left arm to wipe off sweat from the top of his head.

Round 7: Just as the round begins, and Byrd is called to a neutral corner to have tape fixed, HBO expert judge, Herald Letterman joins the team and states that he has Vitali comfortably ahead by a score of 59-55, which means Vitali is definitely ahead in the fight, however he goes on to say “the judges definitely see Vitali Klitschko suckin’ air. His mouth is wide open, and he’s definitely started to tire in round six.”

Round 7: Vitali again throws multiple half punches and full punches with his left arm. I count 57 total. Klitschko is breathing deeply and difficultly through the entire round, even visibly gasping at one point. He even throws a wicked low blow which he is warned for near the end of the round. Just before the round closes we hear Merchant say “We have the strange site of David going forward and Goliath going backward”. Compubox posts new stats in-between the 7th and 8th rounds that in all previous fights, Vitali has managed a 47% connect ratio, and that he was hitting 25% this evening. Byrd’s stats show that through his career he had been landing 40%, and was landing 39% on this night. Still in between rounds, Klitschko’s corner tells him “keep your distance with your left”, to which he nods “yes”. Still no mention of a shoulder.


Round 8: Incredible, Vitali actually increases his activity with his left arm in this round. His left handed punches are no longer pawing, but fully extended jabs. He throws a total of 60 throws with his left arm. He also throws more left hooks in this round than in any previous. He misses with 6 left hooks to the head, but lands two flush to the body, and two vicious left hooks that look low. Byrd keeps coming and seems more energized. Compubox puts up the numbers leading up the end of the 8th round, Vitali has 436 thrown, with 115 landed, for 26%. Byrd for his part has thrown 246, landing 100, for 41%. Again, no mention of the shoulder.

Round 9: Near the beginning of the round, Lampley announces that someone in Klitschko’s corner wants to notify them that Klitschko’s left hand is “hurt”. Strange, since Vitali comes out for this round blaring left hand after left hand. In the first minute, he has thrown 18 jab attempts, 2 left hooks to the body and 4 attempts to the head. With a minute to go in the round, Chris lands 4 solid hooks which wobble Vitali and have him reeling around the ring, leading Merchant to exclaim “That was Byrd’s best serious of punches, about 10 seconds ago”. Incredibly, Vitali answers back with three straight left hooks to the body. Not something I would expect from someone with a torn rotator cuff. Byrd continues to land hooks to Klitschko’s head. Klitschko looks dead tired, yet continues to throw out mainly left hands. At the end of the round, Klitschko’s corner says to him “take it easy, take it easy...okay, is it hurting?” to which he rolls his head down and does not answer back. Then they say “it’s over! We are giving up!” at the same time the compubox numbers show up stating that in round 9, Klitschko threw 66 punches (mostly left hands) landing 17, for 26%. While Byrd threw 38 punches, landing 24 (most of them power shots landing flush on Vitali’s head for the first time in the fight) for an incredible 63%!

Anybody reading this article is more than welcome to re-watch this fight with my evaluation side by side and try to contradict it. I’ve spent the time going over it, instead of stating half truths and misconceptions. That’s what happened in the fight. Vitali Klitschko was worn down because he couldn’t stop Chris Byrd. His shoulder may have went out, but it was because he continually threw jabs that were parried in mid air by the elusive Byrd. Byrd had much better conditioning, despite the fact that he took the fight on 7 days notice, and had no training gear when he arrived, with a severe case of diarrhea. Vitali simply ran out of steam and Byrd sensed it and started coming on like a champion should. When the chips were down, Byrd showed the heart of a champion and did exactly what he stated he would after the second round (at which point he had taken a 6 minute one sided beating) “I’m gonna wear him out”. Evander Holyfield would have been proud.

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TaddT189

http://www.boxingtimes.com/analyses/...chko_byrd.html

Chris Byrd says in there,"I guess his shoulder went out but I was coming on," Byrd proclaimed after the victory. "I feel he was outboxing me a bit but I just kept coming on."

Now all the crap about you saying he was full of bs? He had surgery I guess you didn't quote that, did you?

Since you're such a big boxing expert can you explain him winning on all three judges scorecard

There is no need for the attitude you give me on my post and an answer to you on another post I am 6' and 205 lbs. and chissled and I promise you couldn't handle me old man.

SeikanJudanski

i didn´t give you any attitude on your post.. I told you the way it is.. on another thread you tried to sell McBride as a good boxer.. so spare me with your "boxing knowledge".

Who cares if you are 6" and 205.. I am 6"1 and 220.. don´t make me laugh. Your right about not being able to handle you.. I can´t handle your nonsense. You must be on crack, coming to a forum and trying to act all hard.. lol.

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TaddT189

hahahaha calm down big Seikan. No nonsense here just try to stay on topic please.

P.S. no I'm not on crack I get my kicks out of getting a rise out of you.

SeikanJudanski

Correction.. i just read your post about Gracie. You´re not just probably, but def. on crack if you think you can beat Royce Gracie.

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TaddT189

Are you a fan of mine? You can write me and I'll mail you an autograph. Just send me a check made out to Tadd for $250.00. Don't worry about a last name I'll fill that out I'm already having a problem with stalkers.