Head Kicks

MTKrav911 · 10-23-2006, 01:06 PM

Just curious with everyone's background in either MMA or traditional martial arts or both, what your philosophies are individually about head kicks. THis is an open debate for my own personal curiousity and training. I teach an intro adult kicboxing class and self defense class under the Krav Maga system and we use just about all the standard rules for professional kickboxing and muay thai.

We've been taught basically during instructor cert training, that head kicks are ego driven. They rarely land properly and in a self defense situation can actually be dangerous to throw unless you're finishing someone off with them.
We accept that a well trained professional MMA fighter or kickboxer can effectively throw a good head-kick, but overall know that in reality the average person shouldnt mess with them.

What are all of your approaches in dealing with head kicks?

Nimmy · 10-23-2006, 01:16 PM

one of my goals in starting martial arts was to have the ability to kick someone in the head. i think this is an ego trip as it makes me look like a badass if it comes off and has essences of bruce lee about it to the average joe.

in a streetfight i reckon an average head kick would beat an opponent, reason being its powerful and totally unexpected. most fights i see are punches, tie up and ground. for this reason a head kick and jiu jitsu would win against your average man i feel. ( i study JJ and muay thai so used this theory). however, in skilled competition it is a chance that some people take, we learned all the axe kicks, spinning roundhouses etc.. in muay thai but my trainer told us from the word go that these will never happen in a boubt and rarely work but its cool to learn

the_nothing · 10-23-2006, 01:28 PM

"You wouldn't punch someone in the foot so why kick them in the head?"

MTKrav911 · 10-23-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimmy

one of my goals in starting martial arts was to have the ability to kick someone in the head. i think this is an ego trip as it makes me look like a badass if it comes off and has essences of bruce lee about it to the average joe.

in a streetfight i reckon an average head kick would beat an opponent, reason being its powerful and totally unexpected. most fights i see are punches, tie up and ground. for this reason a head kick and jiu jitsu would win against your average man i feel. ( i study JJ and muay thai so used this theory). however, in skilled competition it is a chance that some people take, we learned all the axe kicks, spinning roundhouses etc.. in muay thai but my trainer told us from the word go that these will never happen in a boubt and rarely work but its cool to learn

Agreed, and remember, I'm dealing with average citizens in this kickboxing class all with no training to some training in martial arts/self defense.

I can do all the Van Damme kicks and such, cause that's what was hot when we were kids in TKD etc. But I wouldnt teach some 45 year old soccer mom to jump spinning back kick to the head, when in reality it'd be more beneficial in my training to teach her how to avoid being grabbed and what to do if grabbed. Our strikes are quick, in combination modeled after boxing and MT and effective. We're just brainstorming our lesson plans to see if Head kicks should at least be addressed or to not even go there!

Nimmy · 10-23-2006, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTKrav911

Agreed, and remember, I'm dealing with average citizens in this kickboxing class all with no training to some training in martial arts/self defense.

I can do all the Van Damme kicks and such, cause that's what was hot when we were kids in TKD etc. But I wouldnt teach some 45 year old soccer mom to jump spinning back kick to the head, when in reality it'd be more beneficial in my training to teach her how to avoid being grabbed and what to do if grabbed. Our strikes are quick, in combination modeled after boxing and MT and effective. We're just brainstorming our lesson plans to see if Head kicks should at least be addressed or to not even go there!

do you learn them leg kicks?

i know if its self defence woman are looking for the groin strike would be the most effective.we do alot of groin strikes in JJ which sounds really gay but man its effective, it sets up a series of combination to the move finish. i.e back strangle to left side step, back elbow to sternum, drop to groin strike backfist into wristlock etc...

have you done this awhile?

MTKrav911 · 10-23-2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimmy

do you learn them leg kicks?

i know if its self defence woman are looking for the groin strike would be the most effective.we do alot of groin strikes in JJ which sounds really gay but man its effective, it sets up a series of combination to the move finish. i.e back strangle to left side step, back elbow to sternum, drop to groin strike backfist into wristlock etc...

have you done this awhile?

Oh yes, kicking the legs is a huge part of what we call our combatives trainig (meaning striking).

The BJJ that Krav uses is from the Machado (Jean Jaques) system and Bas Rutten also teaches ground fighting at the Krav center in LA and it gets filtered down to us through our lesson logs. BJJ in Krav is extremely simplistic, but effective vs. some of the other nonsense TMA or "McDojo" schools try to teach women. The flips and nonsense and kung fu stances etc.

BJJ in Krav basically is. This is what you do if someone takes you down, this is the guard if your sprawl doesent work, here are a few basic submission moves anyone can use. Arm--bar, RNC choke, etc. Also, we teach a lot of work from the guard in how to get back up and strike.

lethalweapon · 10-23-2006, 02:01 PM

Head kicks are really devestating when landed and have a good chance of putting your opponent down right then and there but are hard to do in self defense situations. The quickest, most direct techniques are the ones you use in self defense. By all means do not exclude head kicks from your training regimine but a eye gouge, groin strike, ridge hand to the wind pipe will get the job done more effeciently. In competition it is more acceptable to use head kicks because the person you fight doesn't have a knife or hopped up on crack rocks.

gazbrook · 10-23-2006, 04:09 PM

I have a friend who TRIED a head kick ,sticking up for his younger brother.

If it had connected it would have took his head off. Unluckily for him the other guy moved and my mate lost his footing and fell on the floor. My mate then got jumped on and pummeled until we dragged the guy off him.

He has had no martial arts training at all though,unless watching Bloodsport and Kickboxer count?

Personally I wouldn't use a head kick as a first defence ,I would feel more comfortable punching someone and then kicking them after/if they were dazed to finish them off

Nimmy · 10-23-2006, 06:31 PM

i kneed myself in the face tonight at training, trying front high kicks and caught myself above my eye. what an *******

MTKrav911 · 10-23-2006, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimmy

i kneed myself in the face tonight at training, trying front high kicks and caught myself above my eye. what an *******

Which is probably why I'm leaning toward not teaching the newbies to MMA/Self Defense high kicks.

Especially since I'm in the KM fight club around here. All I need is is for the other instructors who some compete in MMA, to be the guy everyone wants to beat up during our twice weekly fight night because I got the new students doing flying knees, van damme spinning kicks etc.

Yep, that'd send me straight to being choked/knocked or grappled the #(#@ Out!!!!!!!

But I'll land my shots first!

Crashsti · 10-24-2006, 02:17 PM

high kicks come with a high risk factor and in a self defense situation its a poor choice when other attacks have a higher probablity of downing an opponent. being a trained kickboxer or martial artist improves the chances of a head kick landing but its almost counter productive when you could throw punches and maintain your base. the ego needs to be left out of self defense situations.

hambone · 10-24-2006, 08:49 PM

I think head kicks should only be used when they present an excellent oportunity to end a fight...... like when they lower their stance and drop their hands, like might happen if you jarred their jaw with a good right hand or in a desperation attempt at a shoot after a solid body shot. Example: Liddell-Babalu 1.

Wilko · 10-25-2006, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_nothing

"You wouldn't punch someone in the foot so why kick them in the head?"

That was beautiful! lol

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I think the only real safe way to kick someone in the head is if they are on the ground and you don't have to put your foot at head height. But if someone was on the ground i probably wouldn't be kicking them in the head.

I say that kicking to the head leaves you a bit open. It's fairly easy to see it coming. If someone went to kick me in the head I'd move in and take them down. From that position theres a good chance they would hit the back of their head pretty hard going down.

IMO kicking to the back of the head is a bad idea.

DrumzCT · 10-25-2006, 09:20 AM

Even by a good kickboxer in an mma match head kicks are a huge risk. It's a very easy way to get off balance and get taken down. Being originally a TKD guy I do like head kicks because I've thrown about a million of them but when I transitioned to MMA all it got me was on my back until I learned how to set it up properly with punches.

IMO head kicks are a skill that come after alot of otherthings and for average people learning self defense I personally would leave them out.

MY3SONS · 10-25-2006, 10:03 AM

Just like any fighting you have to read your oppenent and know your own skills. I have a hard time not getting caught throwing head kicks unless I have them backpeddling. I like to bombard the head and body punches then while there hands are up turn side kick or round to the jaw/neck area. I am really short 5'9" so my reach is limited.