Pride is the king, but the UFC is the prince

LuvMyCRX® · 08-16-2005, 12:44 PM

There is no doubt that the spectacle and talent in Pride is currently second to none. Fighter purses and money spent on the event itself reflect the masses of people who see their shows. The UFC comes from a country rooted more in boxing and even WWE wrestling. Few American kids grew up wanting to be pro martial artists. If Joe Louis had trained MMA in a counrty that embraced that sort of thing, the UFC would be a world force. Americans dont like to be second to the world in a sport everyone likes, especially full contact sports, so I think the future is very bright for MMA in the USA. A tear of joy will come to my eye when the day comes that the UFC puts on a huge Pride-like spectacle. Itll happen in our lifetimes, sooner than you think.

subgenius · 08-16-2005, 01:16 PM

It has been happening, and is already happening right now...

LuvMyCRX® · 08-16-2005, 01:43 PM

I want to see the UFC sell out MSG in few hours. People camping outside to get tix...
Then domes, and the biggest events outside, in the Rose Bowl!

DrumzCT · 08-16-2005, 02:26 PM

Read some articles on Sherdog and the UFC shows aren't even selling half of thier tickets. They give over half away so it looks good on tv. Hopefully soon they'll be up more.

subgenius · 08-16-2005, 03:31 PM

Where is the money made? In the arena or on PPV?

[Danny] · 08-16-2005, 05:08 PM

so far the pay per view.

SeikanJudanski · 08-16-2005, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

It has been happening, and is already happening right now...

Not yet, maybe in the future but not yet. Pride averages 45,000 attendance, UFC about 10,000. In Japan alone about 25% of the country watches Pride, then you also have the rest of the world tuning in.

titoortiz1 · 08-16-2005, 06:46 PM

45000 is a lot of ppl., not counting the 25%... awesome numbers..

subgenius · 08-17-2005, 12:30 AM

The arena numbers mean very little to me... The numbers watching on PPV are what will impress me. Millions of viewers versus a few thousand in attendance is what defines success. The UFC PPV numbers are what keeps them alive. Anyone know the PRIDE PPV numbers versus the UFC PPV numbers?

UFC 53 had about 300,000 PPV viewers. UFC 52 had over 300,000 viewers. At approximately $30 per PPV that is a lot of ca$h in the pockets of the UFC. Compared to UFC 42 at 34,000 PPV purchases, then I would say that the UFC has made HUGE advances... it is so difficult to compare because PRIDE rarely ever reveals their PPV numbers, and UFC is fairly greedy about that data as well. By comparison, the WWE PPV events are astronomical worldwide.

SeikanJudanski · 08-17-2005, 04:33 PM

Well, if 25% of the Market in Japan watches Pride, how many millions of PPV´s does that make?

SeikanJudanski · 08-17-2005, 04:42 PM

25% of the market is preety much. 125 Million humans live in Japan, cut out the ones without TV´s and PPV access, then you got your figure of Japanes PPV orders for Pride. I would say it´s somewhere in the two figure Millions.

And then you got the World Wide PPV`s.

subgenius · 08-17-2005, 05:02 PM

Where did that 25% number come from? Can you cite that source. Everything that I looked at stated that PRIDE does not (or rarely) reveal that data. The PPV numbers I found for the UFC were only for the US, and not North America or worldwide. Add in those numbers, and the UFC PPV could be up there in the millions as well... although, like PRIDE, the UFC is greedy about revealing the over-all numbers.

[Danny] · 08-17-2005, 05:24 PM

I think that he means that MMA is way way more popular and mainstream in Japan than in the US. I think it's the 3rd most popular sport in some poll behind Baseball and Sumo.

SeikanJudanski · 08-17-2005, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Where did that 25% number come from? Can you cite that source. Everything that I looked at stated that PRIDE does not (or rarely) reveal that data. The PPV numbers I found for the UFC were only for the US, and not North America or worldwide. Add in those numbers, and the UFC PPV could be up there in the millions as well... although, like PRIDE, the UFC is greedy about revealing the over-all numbers.

The numbers are out of a German MMA Magazine. In any case, it´s worthless to debate about who gets more PPV´s, since it´s clear that Pride does. If UFC gets even 2 Million PPV`s, just the numbers out of Japan top that by 10 times. Pride is to the Japanese what NFL, or NBA is to americans.

SeikanJudanski · 08-17-2005, 11:09 PM

I did a few searches, it´s way to late right now to do more, however I came up with this after about 3 minutes of searching for " Pride PPV numbers"..

http://www.geocities.com/yoojinboo/mma.html

although this is from 2003, it gives you an idea what kind of Viewer Ratings Pride has. 16-17% in 2003. No need to say that Pride has gained popularity since then.

SeikanJudanski · 08-17-2005, 11:23 PM

I just sent an email to Pride FC, asking for their PPV numbers, who knows.. maybe they will answer.

subgenius · 08-18-2005, 04:16 AM

I am betting that only the PPV cable and satelite companies know the real numbers. If I ran PRIDE or the UFC, then I would project numbers that depict HUGE success (even if it were not so). The websites I looked at were quick to point out that these numbers are rarely released by PRIDE, the UFC, KOTC, or most others. Maybe we will never get any real solid MMA PPV numbers outside of some percentages (which can be so easily manipulated). I am betting that the PPV numbers for North and South America (where MMA is fairly popular, especially in Canada, Mexico, and Brazil) are very high compared to just Japan...

The WWE, however, always hits huge PPV numbers, and they always say so... Some 940,000 PPV buys in the US alone for any single event, and they run a PPV event every month all year long. UPN's WWE Smackdown draws 5 million viewers every week, and RAW is even bigger than that. PRIDE and the UFC can only hope for that level of attention, but will never likely hit that on a weekly or monthly basis. Some sites I saw stated that the WWE PPV events are the biggest PPV event draws even in Japan.

LuvMyCRX® · 08-18-2005, 09:37 AM

The UFC has the steak, they need a Vince McMahon type to add some sizzle.

subgenius · 08-18-2005, 02:49 PM

I agree. When I ask people around my university which brand name they recognize more out of the WWE, UFC, and PRIDE, the answer is always the WWE. That type of recognition is hard to match. That is what I think that the UFC is trying to duplicate with TUF1 and TUF2. Those shows get weekly recognition. They have action, as well as storylines. That gets people interested. Even people that would otherwise overlook the UFC. I mean there is a reality TV crowd that now waches TUF and the UFC for very different reasons than us fight enthusiasts.

I have even did some minor study of why people watch and love the WWE and pro-wrestling in general. There is a wide spectrum of reasons... and, to my surprise, the expectation of real combat is way far down the list from the top -- very distant from the main reasons. I started watching pro-wrestling when I was like ten years old with the now defunct Mid-Atlantic Wrestling arm of the old NWA. I watched every Saturday morning at my granfather's house. He explained all about what pro-wrestling really was, and the idea of knowing that it was exhibition and not real combat did not diminish the very important entertainment factor.

That is what the UFC is trying to achieve today with what is argueably a fairly new sport. Pro-wrestling and pro-boxing are each over a hundred years old, and the WWE was started as the WWF as far back as 1941. The UFC is striving for excitement, for entertaiment, and ultimately for respect and brand name recognition on a superstar level. TUF and UFN are two excellent advances in that direction. It will take longer to "educate" the average (new) viewer to what it is that it being displayed. That is the heart of main reason for the many boos at the Salaverry-Marquardt match, IMHO.

If the UFC succeeds in this enhancing of brand recognition, then it could be much larger than PRIDE in a very short period of time... Regardless of what PRIDE does in Japan. For PRIDE it is either join with the UFC and have the entire sport increase recognition, or fight against the UFC and go the way of the WCW when it fought the WWE.

SeikanJudanski · 08-18-2005, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

For PRIDE it is either join with the UFC and have the entire sport increase recognition, or fight against the UFC and go the way of the WCW when it fought the WWE.

Who says Pride is fighting the UFC?

Listen, let´s not compare a Soap Opera ( WWE ) to Pride or UFC. Pride is not going down against anybody. I don´t know what you are talking about. I hate to say it, but your being biased against Pride. Comparing the WCW to Pride is an insult to the whole organisation. Why was the WWF bigger than WCW? Bigger stars, better events, more show and plot. Are you saying the UFC has better events, bigger stars, more show and plot? Well forget abut plot, this is the real world, then what is left? Pride has bigger stars, better events and the show is gigantic.

I´m sorry but your not being realistic. Specially since you are speaking of a soap Opera. Yes, people love to watch soaps. I don´t know how many viewers a regular daytime soap gets, but I bet you it´s in the millions daily. So why boast with how many PPV´s the WWE gets. This is the Fight Forum, not the Stunt Forum or Act forum. Somebody could come in and say now, look Boxing has so and so many PPV´s, etc. etc. etc.

So i don´t see why you are even bringing WWE PPV into this. One is a show with a plot, the other is real life fighting. So please stick to comparing the UFC to Pride. And since you did, but used the WCW as comparison, saying that Pride will go down like the WCW against the WWF, is nothing but ridiculous. Pride has been filling Stadiums since day ONE. UFC has never filled a stadium. Please let the UFC become as large as Pride then you can talk about Pride going down, which will never happen. Because the fighters at Pride are simply the best, and that will always draw the crowds and PPV´s. I don´t even know why we are debating how many PPV´s a organisation gets, or arguing about which Organisation makes more money. I want to see good fights, good fighters, skills and talent. You must be a Bank Accountant or something.

And that's the bottom line 'cause Stone Cold said so...