Will MMA ever turn into a traditional martial art? - Fight Forum - MMA - UFC - Boxing - K1

Crashsti · 08-06-2007, 10:34 AM

MMA was formed out of many arts and combined into what we now see in the Octagon. over time however fighters have become known for thier own MMA styles. you think of a fighter and you then think about his own style. will MMA retrogress into a traditional martial art as people continue to learn what works and what does'nt? many schools already teach what they believe to be MMA, is it just a matter of time before you can learn Chuck Liddell's MMA Style? or will it always be a subject of personal exploration?

name goes here · 08-06-2007, 11:34 AM

Cant really see it happening for some reason

You can get BJ Penn's book, or join his school / hire him personally, but there will never be BJ-Fu

codkaz · 08-06-2007, 11:44 AM

It's called Mixed martial arts for a reason

XxGnPxX · 08-06-2007, 12:40 PM

Hmmm i understand the question but either way its still MMA like codkaz pointed out....Does make sense tho crash, cuz when i think of chucks style, then Titos style, I think 2 diffrent styles. idk man you have me puzzled lol

I'll stick to my guns and say no, jsut for the simple fact everyone is still gonna do kickboxing, jiu jitsu, wrestling, etc etc and form their OWN style. which will still be called Mixed Martial Arts (MMA)

Kaledonia · 08-07-2007, 11:49 AM

No chance in hell, Ill probably take flack for this but in my opinion MMA atm is poor, combining wrestling and JJ with striking doesnt make it a "traditional" martial art at all, for that to happen you need to have an event where 1 recognisable system is in place, a textbook from which all striking/forms come from etc etc its wildly complicated.

Watching wrestlers and other guys lay on the ground and try and hit each other, in the majority nude, is just plain fun to me so I hope some nuthugger in the future doesnt get serious and say stuff like "this IS the martial art of the 21st century" or whatever because it involves simple tournament techniques that work thrown in together to win fights.

You get big John to stand people up after on the deck for 30 seconds without a sub, get people attacking out of stances, at the very least discipline to pro kickboxer level, and get guys catching and reversing attacks on the fly instead of parry then hug to the ground, then ill give the notion some leeway it might develop into a traditional MA one day.

XxGnPxX · 08-07-2007, 12:31 PM

I dont get that.....explain that to me please, if its obvious and im just not understanding send it in a private message lol

Crashsti · 08-07-2007, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codkaz

It's called Mixed martial arts for a reason

the term MMA only exists since NHB was no longer an acceptable term for the media. I understand your point, its mixed martial arts so how could it ever revert to a traditional martial art? i say all you have to do is look at the differant schools that teach MMA or the fighters that represent them. they all have a differant method of putting the pieces together and were slowly seeing new styles develope based on wrestling, striking and BJJ. when you start studying MMA most people look at one fighter and try to adopt their style. you love Tito so you practice GnP and elbows from the top. You love Chuck so you want to be a sprawl and brawl type of fighter. this is'nt a possiblity that is totally out of the question, its just a matter of time in my opinion. we're past the point of simply taking what works from other styles and making them work together. People know what works and are currently working to put those pieces back together.

XxGnPxX · 08-07-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

I'll stick to my guns and say no, jsut for the simple fact everyone is still gonna do kickboxing, jiu jitsu, wrestling, etc etc and form their OWN style. which will still be called Mixed Martial Arts (MMA

That doesnt change your mind at all crash? Thought i made a pretty valid point bro

codkaz · 08-07-2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

the term MMA only exists since NHB was no longer an acceptable term for the media. I understand your point, its mixed martial arts so how could it ever revert to a traditional martial art? i say all you have to do is look at the differant schools that teach MMA or the fighters that represent them. they all have a differant method of putting the pieces together and were slowly seeing new styles develope based on wrestling, striking and BJJ. when you start studying MMA most people look at one fighter and try to adopt their style. you love Tito so you practice GnP and elbows from the top. You love Chuck so you want to be a sprawl and brawl type of fighter. this is'nt a possiblity that is totally out of the question, its just a matter of time in my opinion. we're past the point of simply taking what works from other styles and making them work together. People know what works and are currently working to put those pieces back together.

i see what your saying too, but a true mixed martial artist wants to be well rounded and strives to learn everything. If they only want to learn one style they are one dimensional and therefore not a mixed martial artist. I do not consider cro cop a mixed martial artist. he is a fantastic kick boxer competing in mixed martial arts. if it ever gets to the point where every fighter in every promotion is perfectly well rounded and knows pretty much everything then MMA will be uniform and it may then develope into a MA. other than that its just different forms of MMA

Kaledonia · 08-07-2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codkaz

i see what your saying too, but a true mixed martial artist wants to be well rounded and strives to learn everything. If they only want to learn one style they are one dimensional and therefore not a mixed martial artist. I do not consider cro cop a mixed martial artist. he is a fantastic kick boxer competing in mixed martial arts. if it ever gets to the point where every fighter in every promotion is perfectly well rounded and knows pretty much everything then MMA will be uniform and it may then develope into a MA. other than that its just different forms of MMA

What your describing is a martial artist, theres no such thing as a mixed martial artist per say, just somebody who is currently involved in the MMA sport.

True martial arts is fighting through discipline, GnP wont make the cut, ever.

Crashsti · 08-07-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxGnPxX

That doesnt change your mind at all crash? Thought i made a pretty valid point bro

i still say there is room for personal expression within the sport, but there are just some techniques that work better then others. i don't believe MMA is about getting good at every possible technique. its about getting great at a handful and having an understanding of others. your point is vaild currently but its a truth that is changing. Top fighters have coaches in most styles, boxing, Muay Thai, wrestling, BJJ etc..but they also have a MMA coach that gives them the direction to put it all together. there is now alot of set guidelines that best express the way to being a complete fighter. Tradition is simply something passed down and we're beginning to see that within the sport.

Kaledonia · 08-07-2007, 02:34 PM

Tradition in MMA already? Please elaborate my man I think your getting tradition a little mixed up with trend in this case, ie use what works, refine it sure, but your still using what works but more in a manner that suits yourself.

Kinda like Cro Cop, he is well versed in the art of kicking, but what does the buissness for him? Left High/Roundhouse to the head. Little teeved it never happened against big gonza but thats how it goes.

In karate tournament fighting in which i actually know what am talking about the issue is easier to see. We learn hundreds to thousands of techniques ranging from disarming a guy with a knife to hunting terrorists in the pakistani border, when it comes to the compo we see 5 attacks, jab/gyaku(stomach punch/reverse punch)/backfist/front kick/side kick.

If you watch MT matches, add in a clinch and its nearly the same, same with K1.

Look at MMA, read BJ Penns book who has written beautifully about what were talking about now, MMA is broken up into different zones, Striking/Ground game/TKD/Mounts etc, these are all things that are the same throughout a good fighters arsenal, but are the MMA fighters the same? NO!

Hughes is a wrestler, Penn is a BJJ'er, GSP/Liddel have a background in karate, the Spider has a background in MT, they have all learned the skills they are lacking and they deployed the beatstick.

To make MMA a martial art by itself really just cant work, and in its actually already been attempted sucessfully by Bruce Lee with his Jeet Kun Do, which isnt a martial art by itself, but the philosophy of fighting itself.

So there

Dirty Fighter · 08-07-2007, 02:40 PM

I think Greg Jackson comes the closest in this situation. The still he is training his fighters in is known as gaidojutsu, which is built off of judo, wrestilng, BJJ, and kickboxing.

Gaidojutsu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Crashsti · 08-07-2007, 02:42 PM

What is old becomes new and what is broken can be fixed. MMA is a trend, no doubt but that does'nt mean it has'nt shown signs of becoming what it was meant to surpass. MMA is becoming structured, the age of experimentation is over with. there is certainly not hundreds of years of tradition behind it but i think the changes are there and becoming more obvious. you can tell a fighters style by where they train and who they train with. certainly its not as defined as say Karate or TKD but overtime that is the direction it appears to be heading. especially as the trend grows and more discipline is required for the sake of uniformity to make teaching easier.

Kaledonia · 08-07-2007, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Fighter

I think Greg Jackson comes the closest in this situation. The still he is training his fighters in is known as gaidojutsu, which is built off of judo, wrestilng, BJJ, and kickboxing.

Gaidojutsu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nice find DF, but again and it really is something that sounds like the traditional MA of MMA, but then you got the Bas Rutten system too, and well a few other guys are taking common "it works" techniques together, adding some polish, and a cool name for it and bam there it is, you have kids running about like "UIAUAH AM LEARNING GAIDOJUTSU AM GONNA OWN EVERYBODY!!!" with images of samurais fighting tigers and stuff.

I think what Codkaz is talking about is more of the Bruce Lee of learning everything approach, not set systems and thats pretty much the way I see it myself.

Does Gaidojutsu count as a MA? Probably yes

Is it a traditional MA? I dont think it is personally

Kaledonia · 08-07-2007, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

What is old becomes new and what is broken can be fixed. MMA is a trend, no doubt but that does'nt mean it has'nt shown signs of becoming what it was meant to surpass. MMA is becoming structured, the age of experimentation is over with. there is certainly not hundreds of years of tradition behind it but i think the changes are there and becoming more obvious. you can tell a fighters style by where they train and who they train with. certainly its not as defined as say Karate or TKD but overtime that is the direction it appears to be heading. especially as the trend grows and more discipline is required for the sake of uniformity to make teaching easier.

I agree 100% with everything you just said, and lets no miss the issue also that if more rules are placed on MMA as a whole, then uniformity is forcfully imposed, making people fight more the same, making everything more structured and so fourth.

Am not against the idea of what we watch on TV will ever become a martial art, I just disagree entirely in what were seeing now can ever be classified as one.