A good article on the Fedor-dealio... - Fight Forum - MMA - UFC - Boxing - K1

Gooner · 10-15-2007, 03:00 PM

The whole thing here...
StrictlyMMA - Fedor to M-1: Am I Professionally Required to Care About This?

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The recent news that Fedor signed with M-1, and that Randy Couture has retired as a result of it, has elicited a wide variety of reactions, most of them nonsensical. As a public service I will clarify several points that have come up repeatedly.

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Although the terms of his deal were not disclosed it is believed by many that Fedor took less money per fight by rejecting the UFC’s offer. Even if that’s true his current deal is likely more lucrative and here is why:

Fedor is injury prone.
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The sponsorships and other non –fight revenue opportunities for Fedor are in Russia and M-1 promotes there. Is/was Fedor really going to be a huge star in America? Let’s say he comes into the Octagon and thirty seconds later Randy leaves on a stretcher. After beating the hugely popular champion he follows it up with some dominating wins. How big a star would he be? How many endorsements would he get? I don’t know but since those last few sentences accurately describe Anderson Silva’s UFC career and he isn’t exactly doing Nike ads with Kobe Bryant, I’d say the sponsorship market for non-English speakers is not that great. It should be noted that as a heavyweight Fedor could expect to do a little better than Anderson, even though Anderson has a better look.

Fedor’s schools are in Russia, he speaks Russian, and he has/will get sponsors in Russia.

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Dana White is not to blame

The UFC made Fedor an offer that was grossly disproportionate to what they pay their other fighters and to what Fedor is worth in a strictly economic sense. That offer jeopardized their relationships with current stars and will make it more difficult to re-sign stars like Tito Ortiz. If I was Tito sitting down to negotiate, the first words out of my mouth would be: “You were going to pay some no-name Russian who can’t speak English 1.5 million, I’ve sold more PPVs than anyone alive so I deserve more than that.” Randy is one of the fighters who, it is rumoured, was upset with the UFC breaking the payscale to try to get Fedor.

The UFC’s offer showed that they are really committed to bringing in the best fighters even if it means upsetting the ones they have. The now-legendary no-Sambo clause derided by so many fans was a necessary hedge against the likelihood Fedor would get hurt. It shows that the UFC is willing to commit resources but they aren’t stupid about how they do it.

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The Compelling Matchup for Fedor is Not in the UFC

Down the road there are a couple semi-interesting fights for Fedor in the UFC. If Gonzaga improves he could eventually give the Russian trouble and Andre Arlovski has the physical tools to concern Fedor, assuming AA fights the fight of his life, but the fight everyone seems to want is a 44-year old who is 2-2 with two stoppage losses in his last four heavyweight fights and who has been stopped five times in his last 11 fights. This is the mega-unification, fan’s wet dream matchup?

Couture-Fedor is not that interesting. That’s right I said it. Randy has a nice win streak going with solid victories over two top 10 guys but there are several heavyweights with win streaks at least as impressive. Noguiera just beat Barnett and Herring. Can you honestly say wins over Gonzaga and Sylvia are more impressive? Kongo just beat Silva and Cro Cop. Randy’s wins are slightly better than Cheik’s but these three guys are all roughly the same in their last two fights and if you go much past that Randy’s record at heavyweight starts to look lousy. Remember those arguments people used to make about why Sylvia should be ranked higher? “But he has the belt” the uninformed would simper. That argument is no more compelling when made on behalf of Randy.

Fedor has not only faced and beaten competition far superior to Randy, he has dominated it. Nogueira has been the no. 2 HW forever and his other wins are so impressive that we tend to forget that Fedor didn’t just beat him, he kicked the hell out of him. In the UFC those fights would have been 50-43 decisions. The difference between Fedor and Nogueira is equivalent to the difference between Noguiera and the no. 10 heavyweight. In no other division and at no other time in MMA history has the gap between 1 and 2 been so gaping.

Fedor is bigger, stronger, faster, more skilled, much younger and hits harder than Randy. He also fought a fighter very similar in style to Randy four months ago. Lindland is about twenty pound lighter than Couture but Matt is also a better wrestler and more skilled at submissions. Fedor submitted him in two minutes without throwing a punch.

For six years Fedor has dominated all comers. He has won four fights against men who were ranked number 2 in the division when they fought and he was never seriously threatened by any of them. In contrast Randy has fought two, arguably three top 5 fighters and two of them stopped him.

Fedor has fought elite wrestlers, submission artists and kickboxers and destroyed them all. The closest he ever came to losing was against Kevin Randleman, who dominated Randy for a couple of rounds, and that fight took 90 seconds.

What is Randy going to do that those guys couldn’t? Is he a better wrestler or takedown artist than Mark Coleman? NO. If he can get Fedor on his back is there any reason to think Fedor won’t submit Randy as easily as he did Matt Lindland? NO. If they stay standing is there any reason to think Randy will get the better of Fedor when Cro Cop couldn’t? NO.

There is one compelling matchup available for Fedor and it's Josh Barnett. Josh is a better fighter than Randy but more importantly he has the diverse skill set and size to match up with Fedor. Unlike Randy, Josh would have several advantages if he fought Fedor. Josh is probably a little better at submissions, is probably a close match standing, and has 20-30 lbs on Fedor.

I agreed with most of it.
The part where he compared the fighters Fedor has faced to Randy was a bit too simplistic, but other than that... good one.

Now, let's hear from those of you who hated it.

Snow Patrol · 10-15-2007, 03:12 PM

Good article, although the writer seems to give Randy almost no chance against Fedor... he fails to mention that Randy is a great underdog fighter and his track record shows it. I would still pick Fedor over Randy, however.

Saskabush · 10-15-2007, 03:29 PM

Great article. I have said it many times amidst this drama that Randy does not deserve an immediate shot at Fedor nor would he stand a chance in the fight if it ever did happen.

It's good to see others are still in touch with reality.

CounterPuncher · 10-15-2007, 07:49 PM

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Originally Posted by Saskabush

Great article. I have said it many times amidst this drama that Randy does not deserve an immediate shot at Fedor nor would he stand a chance in the fight if it ever did happen.

It's good to see others are still in touch with reality.

Randy does not deserve a shot at Fedor?? Yeah cause Fedor has been fighting such great competition lately.

Saskabush · 10-15-2007, 08:26 PM

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Originally Posted by CounterPuncher

Randy does not deserve a shot at Fedor?? Yeah cause Fedor has been fighting such great competition lately.

Yea just like Randy.......

The article explains very well the talent that each of them have faced, you may disagree but I find it to be accurate.

The Bodybag · 10-15-2007, 10:37 PM

I dont think either is undeserving. I think they are both champions, both have beaten greats, and both are legendary HW.

CounterPuncher · 10-15-2007, 10:39 PM

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Originally Posted by Saskabush

Yea just like Randy.......

The article explains very well the talent that each of them have faced, you may disagree but I find it to be accurate.

In the article when they are talking about how easily Fedor would defeat Randy, they are forgetting one of the best things Randy has going for him and that is his gameplan. I think that a good gameplan is just as important as everything else, if not more important. Couture is one of the best at capitalizing on his opponents weaknesses, and we all know that everybody(even Fedor) has weaknesses.

All in all, I think this would be a good fight. I would give it 60:40 Randy but it could go either way. I just hope we get to see it sometime in the future.

DeathbyHighKick · 10-16-2007, 12:07 AM

I love when people count Randy out, it's moments like this that make me remember when he ehhh....destroyed Chuck at UFC 43, owned Tito at 44, Vitor at 49, Timmy, followed by Gonzaga....too bad this fight will never happen.

Mulla · 10-16-2007, 05:57 AM

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Originally Posted by CounterPuncher

In the article when they are talking about how easily Fedor would defeat Randy, they are forgetting one of the best things Randy has going for him and that is his gameplan. I think that a good gameplan is just as important as everything else, if not more important. Couture is one of the best at capitalizing on his opponents weaknesses, and we all know that everybody(even Fedor) has weaknesses.

Why do so many people think Randy invented gameplanning?

Ive said it before and I'll say it again...watch a few of Fedor's fights and tell me he doesnt have a gameplan for each one.

CounterPuncher · 10-16-2007, 07:07 AM

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Originally Posted by Mulla

Why do so many people think Randy invented gameplanning?

Ive said it before and I'll say it again...watch a few of Fedor's fights and tell me he doesnt have a gameplan for each one.

When did I ever say he invented gameplanning??

All I was saying was that he always has a very good gameplan, better than most. It was just something that the guy who wrote the article didn't mention. And I think it plays a big part in the fight.

XxGnPxX · 10-16-2007, 01:40 PM

Sounds like to me Fedor took the easy road, since now he wont have to work as hard as the article pointed out.

Gooner · 10-16-2007, 02:36 PM

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Originally Posted by XxGnPxX

Sounds like to me Fedor took the easy road, since now he wont have to work as hard as the article pointed out.

Yeah, I guess he kinda did.
If all he cared about was what some casual UFC-fans thought about him, I'm sure he would have come over to UFC and smashed Randy. And fought 4 times a year.

But he thought about himself and his family... oh noes.

Some people will never be satisfied.
I also agree with the article that Barnett is the one match-up that would make sense now, not Randy. And that match-up is still possible.

It's not like he owes anyone anything either.
If he doesn't feel like fighting 4 times a year, he doesn't have to.
Hell, if he wants to retire and concentrate on his schools etc., fair enough.
It's a tough, demanding sport.

I mean, didn't Randy just quit?
And in the middle of his contract.
With a record clearly inferior to the one Fedor has.
Randy would still have A LOT to prove in the division.
How about him versus a couple guys Fedor has already dominated twice, Nog and Crocop?
I just think it's hilarious that people claim Fedor's scared, knowing his track record. Gimme a break.

theEmpiric · 10-16-2007, 02:39 PM

Sounds like the article was definitely written by a serious fedor/pride talent fan. I think Fedor is a great fighter, a legend as well, however I think that he is still a human and can lose to anyone on any given day.

Randy has earned the right to fight Fedor, no questions asked. Would he win? Would he get demolished? No one can do anything except for speculate at this point, and that's what the point of this forum is for. I don't understand why people have to get so offended when someone says they think Randy would win or vice versa.

Please stop the nuthuggin from both sides and understand that this is MMA and nothing is 100%.

theEmpiric · 10-16-2007, 02:52 PM

ALSO. I completely agree about Fedor not being able to capitalize on endorsement s here in the states, and a perfect example is A. Silva.

And I understand him wanting to be in his home country. Hopefully M-1 will let him compete in some Mixed Org fights... =)

CapAmericaFTW · 10-24-2007, 05:40 PM

Regardless of either fighter's abilities (I've only seen one of Fedor's fights, and I wasn't impressed) the fact is that in the end it is his choice whether or not to come over.

That being said, with all the hype surrounding Fedor, I would loooove to see them go at it, mainly because their styles seem so disparate.

Flying Triangle Choke · 11-05-2007, 02:40 PM

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Originally Posted by CapAmericaFTW

Regardless of either fighter's abilities (I've only seen one of Fedor's fights, and I wasn't impressed) the fact is that in the end it is his choice whether or not to come over.

That being said, with all the hype surrounding Fedor, I would loooove to see them go at it, mainly because their styles seem so disparate.

Just out of curiosity, which Fedor fight did you see?

Flying Triangle Choke · 11-05-2007, 02:46 PM

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Originally Posted by Gooner

Yeah, I guess he kinda did.
If all he cared about was what some casual UFC-fans thought about him, I'm sure he would have come over to UFC and smashed Randy. And fought 4 times a year.

But he thought about himself and his family... oh noes.

Some people will never be satisfied.
I also agree with the article that Barnett is the one match-up that would make sense now, not Randy. And that match-up is still possible.

It's not like he owes anyone anything either.
If he doesn't feel like fighting 4 times a year, he doesn't have to.
Hell, if he wants to retire and concentrate on his schools etc., fair enough.
It's a tough, demanding sport.

I mean, didn't Randy just quit?
And in the middle of his contract.
With a record clearly inferior to the one Fedor has.
Randy would still have A LOT to prove in the division.
How about him versus a couple guys Fedor has already dominated twice, Nog and Crocop?
I just think it's hilarious that people claim Fedor's scared, knowing his track record. Gimme a break.

How dare you imply that Fedor shouldn't bow down and worship Dana!!!! As a certain poster on these forums would probably say:

"Dana White is the greatest man ever. He created the earth, IIRC."