name goes here

Although all fighters train how to defend themselves drawing on the broad MMA discipline it seems to me one thing that seperates the best from the rest of fighters is their attachment to one or two traditional martial arts (including various wrestlings and boxing) rather than focusing on 'MMA' as an art in itself. Learning MMA to win, seems to be a straight road to mediocrity.

Fedor - Sambo (just realised I've never seen him throw a standing knee)
CC - Kickboxing
Randy -Wrestling + Boxing
Chuck -Kickboxing (?)
Hughes -Wrestling
Serra / Nog / others -Jiujitsu
GSP - Something Karate

etc

Gooner

I wholeheartedly disagree with your viewpoint.

MMA is still new and EVERYONE starts somewhere.
I guarantee you there are and will be great fighters out there who started with MMA. It's just that back when guys like Randy started there was no MMA.

Obviously being world class in one discipline like wrestling, BJJ or kickboxing is a great foundation if you want to succeed in MMA.

It's interesting you mention GSP as well. He's often referred to as someone who didn't come from some specific TMA background. Yeah, he did karate as a kid. Big whoop, his fighting style is pretty far from karate.

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FF Prediction Contest Wins:
UFC 69
UFC 74
UFC 76
UFC 87

SeikanJudanski

GSP does indeed come from a TMA background, namely Kyukushinkai Karate. Kyukushinkai is also the background of many K1 fighters. Kyukushin is not a stiff form of Karate as some might observe karate to be. It´s very realistic and if you look at a Kyukushin Kumite it reminds one very much of Muay Thai. He also has the Kyukushin symbol tatooed on his chest.

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sitnspin

Really? I've heard the exact opposite in interviews right from GSP's mouth. I read a long interview with him in one of our local newspapers before his second Hughes fight, where he said he grew up focused on Karate, and when his main karate coach died it was like losing a father. He said in that interview that even now, he often still feels like karate is his discipline and he's just supplemented it with wrestling and jiu-jitsu.

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Gooner

OK, I guess Dana punk'd me then.


That said, I still disagree with the premise of this thread.

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FF Prediction Contest Wins:
UFC 69
UFC 74
UFC 76
UFC 87

SeikanJudanski

By the way, my avatar symbol is the Kyukushinkaikan Logo, and in my signature you can see Kyukushinkai in traditional Japanese, a few scenes from Kyushinkaikan Championships and the Logo again.

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MTKrav911

I agree somewhat with your statement, Matt Serra I think said it best on the Today show last month when he said "You have to be well rounded in various forms of fighting and an expert in at least one form of fighting". I look at it from the standpoint of fighting discipline, not TMA.


I believe most TMA and the way its taught these days with maybe only a handful of exceptions are crap. They don't teach in a realistic manner and they teach things that with all things considered, are fluff techniques.

I remember the old Gracie Jiu Jitsu advertisements back in the 80's in Black Belt Magazine when they came out with their first books and videos. The Gracies had a line in their advertisments that read:

"Do you ever wonder why a black belt with years of experience in martial arts is easily beaten on the street by an undisciplined street thug? It's because martial arts doesent teach ground fighting!"

To this day I 100% agree with that analysis some 20 years ago. Yes, many MMA fighters have a base in a TMA, but how many times have you really seen a modern Day MMA fighter use a TMA technique?

You're not gonna see them do kata, or one step sparring #100. Etc. It just has no place in the real world applications of FIGHTING

yaiir

Maybe fighters who have a background in TMA do well because the patience and discipline needed to do well in a TMA translates well into other things, such as getting into MMA for example.

sitnspin

I reject this thread's original post on the basis that it positions MMA as if it's some kind of martial art separate from the other ones listed. MMA isn't a martial art unto itself, it's just a sport that takes all of the separate arts into account. You can't learn "mixed martial arts" without just studying a variety of things like wrestling and kickboxing and BJJ.

No commentator's gonna say, "Oh, that strike was straight out of mixed martial arts", or "He's well versed in MMA takedowns". People just study a variety of fighting styles and combine them in this greatest of combat sports. And yeah -- everyone's got one particular style that they've come closer to mastering than others, but it's still all about being well-rounded.

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Gooner

I think "focusing on MMA" is a necessity actually.

Even if you do have a solid background in some TMA, you have to adapt that into MMA as well. You can't go wrestling with your opponent with your hands down, and if you're a boxer you might want to work on your stance to protect you from leg kicks/takedowns, etc. etc. MMA comes before everything and it should dictate everything you do imo.
With that in mind you should obviously try to go by your strengths (which may vary against different opponents).

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FF Prediction Contest Wins:
UFC 69
UFC 74
UFC 76
UFC 87

sitnspin

Grrr.

MMA IS everything. Can you tell me what MMA is if it's not a variety of different styles studied at the same time? If I'm a really explosive and dominant wrestler who then spends a few years getting good at muay thai, I'll be a threat but my weakness will be my lack of BJJ. I'd like you to define this mystic art of MMA that's somehow different from just learning a combination of traditional styles.

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name goes here

MMA as a style means (at least to me) militech fighting, or a combination of sprawl and the most commonly used thai boxing and wrestling submission components. Or Sprawl-punch-elbow-legkick-takedown

It was just that after watching the lindland Fedor fight before each post to be sure of what I was going to say, so several times, it struck me that Fedor wasn't actually a master generalist like I'd assumed, and heard randomnly on the net. His fighting style was Sambo, distinct from the more typical 'MMA'. In Comparison to a fighter like Rich Franklin who as far as I can see is the opposite, more versed in MMA than any trad martial art.

I'm not saying all trad martial arts are good, but I think it gives a distinct edge to have acces to different stuff your opponent doesn't know, and perhaps slightly more complex but developed options. I'm also not saying you dont need 'MMA' as well to protect you from areas less focused on by your discipline.

sitnspin

Combative sambo involves punches, kicks, takedowns and submissions. What's the difference between that and whatever you're calling "typical MMA"? Rich Franklin is a well-rounded fighter who works on punches, kicks, takedowns, and submissions. Fedor may well be a better all-around fighter, but what is that he knows that Franklin doesn't?

I still think you're confused. Am I correct that your point is that if your an MMA fighter, you're lacking the skills of someone who's studied one particular art, like kickboxing or judo?

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Gooner

If this was for more then...
No reason to get grumpy over semantics, grampa.


I was just making the point of how you have to look at all the techniques on how they would work in MMA and how they should possibly be improved. Hence "MMA comes before everything".

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FF Prediction Contest Wins:
UFC 69
UFC 74
UFC 76
UFC 87

MTKrav911

As always, just as long as I don't see some MMA fighter do The Crane stance?

I'm all good with what they want to use.

I mean Shonie carters patented spinning back-fist is a TKD trademark. It's sloppy, retarded looking, but if it lands? As his has done?

It's freakin sweet!!!!!

Crashsti

MMA is the politically correct way of saying cage fighting, NHB or "anything goes". it was born out of necessity as a way of making the sport more mainstream and media friendly. if the UFC had stuck with NHB it would'nt have reached the level of popularity it has. MMA is just a name that simply means a mix of all differant martial arts, no need to try and formulate the ideal mix.

asronn

Im not sure how important it is to have a TMA to fall back on. I mean its great if your a wrestler but thats about it. I mean, any striker can do well if he can wrestle well enough to keep it standing and any BJJ guy can do well if he can strike well enough to get close enough to get a hold of you. I dont think it you have to be good at BJJ to be successful in MMA as long as you know how to defend submissions. I think if your great at BJJ and you are comfortable defending yourself on your feet you'll be fine. If you know a little bit of everthing I thing youll be OK but you will never dominate. I cant think of one guy without a foundation to fall back on who has a title. I really dont care what anyone says, GSP is the most well rounded fighter I have ever seen in MMA.

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asronn

ok so I confused myself....Maybe the thread confused my Vodka???

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I've got a strategy, it's called whoop that ass!"

-Quinton Jackson