Elder

This fight seemed a little fishy to me.. Again, we see Cung Le fighting someone who won't take him down -- a bit of a coindidence? I think not. I can't believe people are comparing him to Anderson Silva. I don't think Cung Le can beat anyone who can take him down. Period. It was obvious Frank didn't want to take him to the ground or the fight would have been over from ground and pound.

jyd94

So now Frank Shamrock, the guy with the biggest ego on the planet is throwing fights too. I wish I could say I have heard it all, but I have said that way too much in my life already and I'm still young.

Elder

That's not what I said, but people read what they want to read. I think Frank had every intention of winning that fight, just not on the ground.

giguer

Right. But he's good and could be very great in 185.

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Gygax

Been pretty busy all day, but have been thinking about this fight specifically a lot.

I'm surprised by how many of the pundits are saying this may very well be fight of the year. It was a very good fight. But I really feel the absolute electric atmosphere of the crowd in San Jose (may be the best MMA crowd in the US time and again) made it a lot more exciting than it actually was. I'd be willing to bet that the Liddell-Silva fight, which also went 3 rounds, show a similar amount of strikes landed. Cung's array of kicks was great, but they still count for a point. Please don't take this as me saying it was a bad fight. It was great! But FOY? I kinda hope not with 9 months to go.

My favorite part of the fight was after all the showmanship (I’d call it showboating) by Frank for the first two rounds, it was the look of frustration on his face when he was standing up from getting his leg swept so beautifully out from under him. That was priceless to see after all the smack he talked, including the "sleep" sign he made in the first round.

I said it before the fight here and on MMAonTap, that I completely figured that Frank would be true to his word and stay standing. Its been 5 years since we last saw Frank actively go for takedowns in an MMA fight, against a vastly overmatched Bryan Pardoe. Various sites seemed stunned that this submission expert didn't take the fight to the ground. Newsflash. Frank Shamrock was a submission expert 10 years ago!!!

In the last 9 years, he has beaten Elvis Sinosic by decision ( a guy fighters such as Bisping, Calhoon, and Sakara among others have finished), bodybuilder Bryan Pardoe, TKO'd an aging Cesar Gracie in his MMA debut, lost by DQ to Renzo Gracie in a fight he was losing, and RNC'd Phil Baroni after rocking him. And after Baroni got beat for the 4th time in 6 fights, maybe that result was not as good as I thought. We love to show how guys from the early days of the UFC/Pride have just not evolved. Guys like Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, and Mark Coleman, right down the line to even Matt Hughes and Carlos Newton. Maybe even Frank Shamrock has not completely evolved as well. Yes, he was one of the very first who really showed an all around game. But his results over the last 9 years just do not back up the hype.

The fact that he will not have his ACL reconstructed and thus be able to use it as a crutch is just further proof of his arrogance. Its a shame, because I used to be such a huge Frank Shamrock fan, but I’m so tired of his act and just loved watching him get beat last night. He is a great fighter, I honestly believe that. But he is simply not the MMA god that he and his supporters make him out to still be. At least not anymore.

On to Cung Le. Each time I watch him fight, I become a bigger and bigger fan. My criticisms of Shamrock are not meant to take away from Le's performance. He never fell into any of Frank's traps and simply took him apart. He was rocked a few times, especially with a minute left in the 3rd round, but recovered very nicely and responded in kind. I think CUng has a bright future in MMA with his age possibly being the determining factor holding him back.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves and fall into the rhetoric that Gary Shaw would have us believe. Cung is nowhere near the top of the foodchain in the middleweight class. Besides Anderson Silva being head and shoulders above him IMO, I have little doubt that Dan Henderson would do a very nice job of getting a greco clinch on Le and securing a takedown. Same with a Matt Lindland. I'd certainly give Nate Marquardt a legitimate chance to take him down into his control. If you'd like to play MMA math, it took Cung into round 3 to take out Tony Fryklund, a guy that was finished in one round by Silva, Salaverry, Goulet, and Thomas Denny. Heck, Sammy Morgan took Cung into the 3rd round. I don't need to go over his level. So while I think Cung is dynamite, we need to remember the level of his MMA competition up until this point.

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SmashingMachine

Great fight. Cung Le has transitioned well to mma. Very Impressive.

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jyd94

Yeah you weren't insinuating anything....

The-Iceman-Chuck-Liddell

I brought up Chonan because he hit Anderson so many times. If it was Cung hitting him Anderson would have gone down. If Anderson didn't check Chonans kicks why check Cungs? Cung can recover very quickly. He doesn't take as much damage as you would think.

Pitbull

Ok, fine Chonan hit Anderson almost 4 years ago. So I guess that means that 4 years ago Cung Le could've possibly knocked him down...Fine. But don't you think Anderson has improved since then? I mean, how different were you 4 years ago?

In his fight against Jorge Rivera, Anderson had Jorge in the clinch. He LET Jorge hit him in the face several times and just winked at him. Anderson can obviously take shots and avoid too much damage. His record would look a lot different if he was consistently getting caught with strikes. The guy has never been (T)KO'd in MMA!

So if Anderson is getting punched and kicked, but the shots aren't causing any damage, why not eat them? Eat the shot, keep your stance, maintain balance, and counter.

And Cung doesn't take as much damage as I think? The fact is Frank hit him with several shots, rocked him, and left him a little bloody. When Anderson rocks guys, they have a tendency not to recover too well.

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MTKrav911

After rewatching the fight, it was a decent fight. I like Le's flashiness, but also think he throws kicks that are un-necessary (those spinning kicks that he always misses with).

Shamrock? I don't know. I think he's starting to go down the road of his big brother watching his athletic ability slowly but surely slip away and his window of being successful in MMA quickly going away.

I'm more impressed with Cung, but def not on his bandwagon. I want to see him fight OUTSIDE San Jose, and vs challenging opponents before I buy into him. But he looks good so far.

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"You Don't Like Beethoven!"

AikaImmortal

As a kickboxing purist, this was much more an example of art than Silva/Liddell was.

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Elder

Of course I was.. I think one would have to question why his opponents never try to take him to the ground.

MTKrav911

It's a question I still have. Unless Cung knows something about never being taken down that other Pro MMA fighters don't.

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"You Don't Like Beethoven!"

FightFan76

If he stood in front of Silva like he did Le and just let him tee off then Frank would get KTFO.....

jyd94

His whole 6 opponents? only 2 of which are close to top tier talent (shamrock, fruklynd)? One of those obviously chose not to (shamrock) and stated it before hand, possibly because of a missing ACL. Frank decided to let him gas himself and come on late, it didn't work but he had Cung in more trouble before the arm break than he was himself to that point. Lets not jump to conclusions on basically 3 fights that got out of the first round, with 1 legit top talent in Shamrock.

NWCrazy

I noticed that too. Both fighters have an unorthodox style that prevents them from taking too much damage.

That uniqueness makes them both great fighters IMO and hard to win against.

NWCrazy

You've got to be kidding??????????????????????????

Gygax

Oh, I absolutely agree. But for that, I'd rather watch Cung against someone of equal kickboxing skill, rather than Shamrock's lunging shots. For instance give me Cung Le vs a guy like Buakaw Por. Pramuk. I know they are different weight classes. But let two guys like that fight with MMA gloves.

It was a good fight with a great 3rd round. Neither guy was in any real trouble the first two rounds.

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Crashsti