Strength

IrishLaoch · 11-06-2005, 12:01 AM

Im into weight lifting to put on some mass. Im goin to start training MMA in 2 weeks again, 2-3 tmes a week. What type of weight training should i do to ADD mass. Ive been lifting for about a year, but i havent gotten good results. I do uppers one day, and lowers the next, and repeat it for 4 days. Ive been told i simply train too much. I find working out a muscle group twice a week is too much hard to believe....Should i do a split like Tris/Chest, Back/bis, Legs, then rest 3 days. Theres alot of myths and what not out there, especially online so its hard to find the truth on what i should be doing to get bigger. So if anyone knowledgable can tell me to train less/ more, or nay other advice, let me know please.

rugger · 11-06-2005, 12:30 AM

Firts off, why are you posting up a new thread asking this, you have one already.
http://fightforum.com/showthread.php?t=1753
A few of us have made suggestions. Have you considered the things that lwbfl, me and others have suggested already? Have you started a food log.

FOOD! FOOD! FOOD! IMO you are probably over training and undereating, FOOD should be were you look for size. Are you sure you're eating enough to grow?

Workouts:
You are not resting enough to recover, period. If you are natural (steroid-free) it's my opinion and experience that you should train each body part only ONCE per week if you are trying to gain either size or strength. In fact a muscle group like legs, IMO will benefit and grow very well with a workout once every 10 days - especially if you have large legs. Everything is subject to your individual response to the stimuli and your genetics. The frequency of your workouts is not only taxing your muscles, but probably wreaking havoc on your immune system and central nervous system, unless you are fueling incredibly well.

IF your diet and rest is in order then try this, it is SIMPLE, not meant to be fancy or a magic formula. Make sure you are doing compound movements like deads, squats, bentrows, bench and military. These will stimulate the most muscle fiber and release of growth hormone.

M - back/tris
T - no weights
W - legs
Th - no weights
Fri - shoulders/chest/bis
S - no weights
Su - no weights

I don't list things like abs/forearms if you want throw them in where ever if you feel you must, but be careful with overtraining them. These areas will be work everytime you train anyway.

Intensity is key, you should be doing short and very heavy, very intense (maximal effort) training.

Now, go do it and report back your results.

IrishLaoch · 11-06-2005, 09:59 AM

My other post i wasnt looking for workout tips, i just wanted something to help me out. I was just getting confused with how many times i should workout a week, theres tons of info on the web saying 5, some says just 2 or 3. Sorry if im monotonous, just confused. Thanks for putting up with me, your all awesome.

rugger · 11-06-2005, 10:03 AM

Yea, you asked about supplements, but that spawned (as it should) a discussion about diet and training. Good luck.

Unknown · 11-07-2005, 04:08 AM

Irish, If you are serious about training in MMA, adding mass probably shouldn't be first on you list of things to do. Larger muscles aren’t an advantage in a fight.

Goeth27 · 11-07-2005, 04:20 PM

Matt Hughes I think disproves that. Also I think no matter how you mix it up will help, i do Chest/Tri's and shoulders one night, then Bi's and Back the next, and abs every other night. I Don't work out legs that much, but you could do all 3 in a rotation with a 2 day resting period after 3 days.

I heard the number one problem with weight lifting is some people work out too much, you need atleast 48 hours I beleive it is for muscles to fully repair depending on how big of a workout you have done.

Also I personally like the Chest Tri's method because you do pushing one night for chest and tri's then pulling another for back and bi's. Has worked for my brother and Dad so that's how I have been braught to work out.

Unknown · 11-07-2005, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goeth27

Matt Hughes I think disproves that.

How dose he disprove that? Matt is far from having large muscles. He is just strong. There is a difference between Muscle size and strength.

When I first got into Boxing I did alot of work to in the highter reps. I am now smaller than I was when I started and a good deal stronger.

Strength comes from two things. The number of muscle fibers you can use in an motion and the individual strength of each fiber. (Note: larger fibers are usually stronger but not always) The thing you want to work on before you worry about increasing your muscle fiber size is getting your body to use more of the fibers. That will help out your performance more than bigger muscles.

explosive · 11-07-2005, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goeth27

Also I personally like the Chest Tri's method because you do pushing one night for chest and tri's then pulling another for back and bi's. Has worked for my brother and Dad so that's how I have been braught to work out.

doing a workout like this is less effecient then say a push pull routine....think about it this way...your doing say bench presses (or dumbell even) you use 3 major muscle groups chest, shoulders and triceps...then you go and do a tricep workout after? well guess what? you cant put 100% into your tricep workout cuz you have unknowningly already exhausted them....same with back and biceps....you work your biceps quite a bit when you do your back(lats)...point is always do push/pull workouts...youll get far more out of it......do chest/biceps then shoulders/back and triceps/legs....and as far as mass ? stay away from it, it will slow you down...work on power ....low reps heavy weight with plyometrics and explosive but good form....matt hughes is all power ...he aint even close to being massive.....make skills your priority overall though.

rugger · 11-07-2005, 06:45 PM

explosive, thanks for posting about that flawed workout...I was holding my opinions.
That's why I train back and tris, chest and bis for example. Also why I make sure there is plenty of rest between legs and back.
LEGS - please do legs!

explosive · 11-07-2005, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goeth27

I heard the number one problem with weight lifting is some people work out too much, you need atleast 48 hours I beleive it is for muscles to fully repair depending on how big of a workout you have done.

absolutely correct!!! way too many people think more is better ...not the case ....rest will build more muscle than the gym ...try working a muscle group 3 times every 2 weeks ...twice a week is too much (especially power) .

rugger · 11-07-2005, 06:53 PM

I have to agree and disagree...

Mass will not in and of itself slow you down. Mass gained through the wrong training - training specifically for maximal size most likely slow you down by the nature of the training. It is possible to gain plenty of mass while training for speed and power. You guys are right, sport specific training is what is needed here. If you train a particular and diet for mass you may accomplish plenty of both, the strength, skills, speed and power along with some added mass that will benefit you.

Goeth27 · 11-07-2005, 08:04 PM

Matt Hughes is pretty big, his neck is about wider then he skull, but whatever floats your boat. I might change my workout a bit then so its back and tris, and bi's and chest and shoulders, what you said makes 100% more sense.

explosive · 11-08-2005, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goeth27

Matt Hughes is pretty big, his neck is about wider then he skull

your right ...matt is a very thick fighter ...full of explosive power and strength but he was a farm boy like me and developed a lot of his strength from his wrestling background...hes not massive like a bodybuilder or anything
just thick and powerful. he's also not a fast striker like say rich franklin which leads me to believe that he needs work in that area.....im thinking his size may be slowing him there....is that how you wanna look? then the first i would do is lots of neck bridges , deadlifts , squats , clean and jerk and bench presses...these will make you thick and powerful for sure.

explosive · 11-08-2005, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugger

I have to agree and disagree...

Mass will not in and of itself slow you down. Mass gained through the wrong training - training specifically for maximal size most likely slow you down by the nature of the training. It is possible to gain plenty of mass while training for speed and power. You guys are right, sport specific training is what is needed here. If you train a particular and diet for mass you may accomplish plenty of both, the strength, skills, speed and power along with some added mass that will benefit you.

your right but most people train to get mass using the wrong training.... cuz to gain thick muscle density from any other means is not as fast .....youll get bigger faster from lifting weights than say wrestling , ground sparring or even calisthenics......but overtime the size gained from the MMA training (although it will take longer) will be sport specific and explosively fast....which is what a MMArtist wants...weights should only be a sport specific supplement...for example....instead of say bench pressing for chest every workout try dumbell presses with a twist....instead of pushing both at once like normal, try doing one arm at a time simultaneously with a 3 sec negative rep and an explosive positive rep thereby to mimic a punch or hand strike also check this out http://www.rossboxing.com/samplevideoclip.htm this guy is a thinker when it comes to our subject

Unknown · 11-08-2005, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goeth27

Matt Hughes is pretty big, his neck is about wider then he skull, but whatever floats your boat. I might change my workout a bit then so its back and tris, and bi's and chest and shoulders, what you said makes 100% more sense.

Yep Matt's neck size floats my boat. Just look at a picture of Matt then walk into your local gym and tell me how big Matt is.

And explosive. Good second post there. Cross training is good but training for the sport you want to compete in is better.

Goeth27 · 11-08-2005, 03:27 PM

Maybe its just because he is one of the bigger ones in UFC that makes me think he is pretty muscular in person. You win.

explosive · 11-09-2005, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goeth27

Maybe its just because he is one of the bigger ones in UFC that makes me think he is pretty muscular in person. You win.

you are correct about his size but dont forget hes only 5'8 and 169 and i bet he is quite muscular in person especially being so well conditioned....you dont get to be the champ unless you train like the champ.....id love to train with some of these guys....especially rich franklin...hes probably the best conditioned and hardest training athlete in the sport...very inspiring

luvtobox · 11-09-2005, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugger

Firts off, why are you posting up a new thread asking this, you have one already.
http://fightforum.com/showthread.php?t=1753
A few of us have made suggestions. Have you considered the things that lwbfl, me and others have suggested already? Have you started a food log.

FOOD! FOOD! FOOD! IMO you are probably over training and undereating, FOOD should be were you look for size. Are you sure you're eating enough to grow?

Workouts:
You are not resting enough to recover, period. If you are natural (steroid-free) it's my opinion and experience that you should train each body part only ONCE per week if you are trying to gain either size or strength. In fact a muscle group like legs, IMO will benefit and grow very well with a workout once every 10 days - especially if you have large legs. Everything is subject to your individual response to the stimuli and your genetics. The frequency of your workouts is not only taxing your muscles, but probably wreaking havoc on your immune system and central nervous system, unless you are fueling incredibly well.

IF your diet and rest is in order then try this, it is SIMPLE, not meant to be fancy or a magic formula. Make sure you are doing compound movements like deads, squats, bentrows, bench and military. These will stimulate the most muscle fiber and release of growth hormone.

M - back/tris
T - no weights
W - legs
Th - no weights
Fri - shoulders/chest/bis
S - no weights
Su - no weights

I don't list things like abs/forearms if you want throw them in where ever if you feel you must, but be careful with overtraining them. These areas will be work everytime you train anyway.

Intensity is key, you should be doing short and very heavy, very intense (maximal effort) training.

Now, go do it and report back your results.

shoulders chest and bis in the same workout!? lol goodluck with that... the rest is fine but how about breaking up that part.

rugger · 11-09-2005, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtobox

shoulders chest and bis in the same workout!? lol goodluck with that... the rest is fine but how about breaking up that part.

You crack me up. You're going to berate people's suggestion with a one-liner, but not elaborate, how convenient. If this is done properly it can work fine, but it's easy to overtrain if improperly done or too much weight is used. Frankly, if he is sticking to once a week this is fine. Let me elaborate...
When training chest, shoulders and tris together exercises and sets will be kept in check. My suggestion is that you do 2 exercises for chest, 1 for shoulders and 1 for bis, shoulders will get plenty of stimulation from chest and from back workouts, plus sparring or heavy bag work.

Example workout would be:
Incline bench 1-2 warm ups 3 work sets
Dips (weighted optional) 3 sets
Military press to the front 3 sets
Barebell curl 3 sets

Perhaps you think chest should get 5 exercises and 20 sets like the momos in most gyms, thus your comment. Chest will be trained plenty for this application as outlined above.

explosive · 11-09-2005, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugger

You crack me up. You're going to berate people's suggestion with a one-liner, but not elaborate, how convenient. If this is done properly it can work fine, but it's easy to overtrain if improperly done or too much weight is used. Frankly, if he is sticking to once a week this is fine. Let me elaborate...
When training chest, shoulders and tris together exercises and sets will be kept in check. My suggestion is that you do 2 exercises for chest, 1 for shoulders and 1 for bis, shoulders will get plenty of stimulation from chest and from back workouts, plus sparring or heavy bag work.

Example workout would be:
Incline bench 1-2 warm ups 3 work sets
Dips (weighted optional) 3 sets
Military press to the front 3 sets
Barebell curl 3 sets

Perhaps you think chest should get 5 exercises and 20 sets like the momos in most gyms, thus your comment. Chest will be trained plenty for this application as outlined above.

your half right....doing shoulders on chest day is wrong though....the shoulder muscles are stimulated a lot when doing any type of chest movement.....better to work them on a different day so that you may give 100% of your effort to them .....youll never be able to give 100% of effort after already working them with chest....try chest/bi , shoulders/back , triceps/legs ....always always do push/pull workouts for maximum benefits.