MMA is not bodybuilding.

Crashsti · 06-26-2006, 10:22 AM

ok, this is something that has been driving me a little crazy, MMA is not bodybuilding. I don't know how many here truly wish to fight one day but a general bodybuilding type workout is not going to prepare them for 3 rounds of a MMA fight. Bodybuilding sole goal is to improve muscle size, symmetry and definition, all of which are useless for a Mixed Martial Artist. the only time an aspiring fighter should follow a bodybuilder type program is when they wish to gain weight to compete in a heavier weight class. if your 185 or so lbs. and want to fight at 185 than why would you follow a program that is going to make you heavier with useless bulk? you would'nt. i see the work "strength" thrown around this forum like it was the main goal of a mma fighter, wrong again, a fighter wants power endurance and strength endurance. you have 3 rounds in which you have to fight, not just 3 sets of 10. unfortunately MMA is still relatively new and the training required to be top level is still misunderstood by most people so they fall back on bodybuilding. rant over for now.

marnold · 06-26-2006, 10:32 AM

Before I started--very recently--BJJ I thought I needed to hit the gym for 50% of my training. I see how wrong that is. Stretching and cardio in my humble opinion is much more important than the juvenile concept of bench-pressing or squats. Not that these exercises don't help, but they are not the bedrock of a good BJJ game.

Crashsti · 06-26-2006, 12:01 PM

i am going to also add another thing, MMA is not long distance running. i own a book by Joe Frazier, boxing great. he still holds on to the notion that to build endurance you have to do roadwork. ok, running does have a place in fighting but not the marathon running he talks about. its a fact that long distance running does not build up the proper energy systems that are used in a fight. either does just running at one pace like he talks about. a fighter should'nt run a distance of more than 400 yards unless they are trying to lose weight.

IrishLaoch · 06-26-2006, 02:59 PM

Why not train on the mats, using the bags, etc. for your muscular endurance, technique, and cardio. Then when your done, go to the gym 3 times a week and train for strength? Strength wont make you a better fighter alone, but strength will make a better fighter even better. Its just another asset to add to a great fighters arsenal.

Goeth27 · 06-26-2006, 03:00 PM

I was weighing 175 before i started lifting weights, a year and a half later im at 158. I like to think that its a fat replaced with muscle type of thing. So now is when i want to bulk up, sorry If any of my posts set you off, but I am trying to gain weight again.

sitnspin · 06-26-2006, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

i am going to also add another thing, MMA is not long distance running. i own a book by Joe Frazier, boxing great. he still holds on to the notion that to build endurance you have to do roadwork. ok, running does have a place in fighting but not the marathon running he talks about. its a fact that long distance running does not build up the proper energy systems that are used in a fight. either does just running at one pace like he talks about. a fighter should'nt run a distance of more than 400 yards unless they are trying to lose weight.

I agree with this. I think part of your cardio conditioning has to be developing that base of being able to run long distance, but the cardio that's required for fighting is five minutes of as much intensity as you can muster, followed by a one minute break, before you have to do it all over again. Rich Franklin wisely points out that a big part of your conditioning is getting your body used to relaxing totally at the end of the round, so your heart rate goes back down and you aren't still exerting energy, and that comes from training yourself to give it for the length of a round and then rest. Your body gets used to that kind of interval.

There's no kind of pro fight where you go at a leisurely, continuous pace for a solid hour, so if that's the extent of your cardio training, you'll never be in the right kind of condition to fight.

AikaImmortal · 06-26-2006, 06:08 PM

I have had to stop lifting as much, went from around 205 at the first of the year to 225 now and although I have gotten much stronger the bulk of the muscles slow me down.. makes me wonder how guys like Jeff Monson balance it out!

Ray433 · 06-26-2006, 07:03 PM

Monson isn't the fastest cat in the world.

I think there has been a full thread about this already but Tnation had a great series about MMA specific training.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1034530

AikaImmortal · 06-26-2006, 07:26 PM

Yes, but he was a champion in Abu Dhabi Combat Club submission tournament.. muscles like that to me would seem like a hindrance, more to grab on to, more to control, easier to submit.

angryjonny · 06-26-2006, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AikaImmortal

Yes, but he was a champion in Abu Dhabi Combat Club submission tournament.. muscles like that to me would seem like a hindrance, more to grab on to, more to control, easier to submit.

I don't know dude. I spent most of my time is wrestling getting schooled by the muscleheads. I never was ripped and occasionally I could take out the buff dudes but most of the time they used their muskles to their advantage and had me counting the lights. Maybe it's different in BJJ and submission wrestling but that's just my take from personal experience.

DrumzCT · 06-26-2006, 08:44 PM

Strength does play a big part in grappling. Being stronger is definitely an advantage and dudes that workout alot are strong. That being said, I've become alot stronger through just rolling all the time, kettlebell work, and circut training without gaining much size at all, and of course technique makes up alot for strength. I've found being alittle smaller and more flexible to have some advantages as well in grappling. There's two guys I train with that if they can't get the RNC are content to crank my face...to which I often respond with tapping, lol.

Check out Rhadi Fergusons training program. Very intense circuit training that developes strength, strength endurance and cardio

http://www.intocombat.com

GSPALLTHEWAY · 06-26-2006, 09:36 PM

muscles kill your speed... monson (although im not a huge fan) is a freak of nature and is one of the very few that has learned to use that type of body to really do well... frank trigg once talked about "functional" strength and muscles, when he was comparing himself to matt hughes.. obviously he was wrong in that case, but the better conditioned you can get your muscles and body to that specific activity the better off you are

OneBigThrow · 06-26-2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

. a fighter should'nt run a distance of more than 400 yards unless they are trying to lose weight.

HAHA thank you man, ive been lookin for an excuse

DrumzCT · 06-27-2006, 12:41 AM

Quote:

monson (although im not a huge fan) is a freak of nature and is one of the very few that has learned to use that type of body to really do well...

Monson incidentally does his conditioning with Rhadi Ferguson at IntoCombat

the_rising_phoenix · 06-27-2006, 06:45 AM

well muscle usually make you win not usually by stregnth but by the psychic way .. simply it makes your opponent afraid and give you the feeling of being the bigger .. other wise its completely against you as a fighter to be muscular .. i am not talking about being a slow muscular guy but muscles also limits your movements
(actually 90% of those who do bodybuilding do it to avoid being attacked by somebody else and not to fight with their huge bodies)
also you see examples like remy bonjasky or crocop kicking someone like bob sapp as a heavy bag
and unlike what people think muscles decrease your stability and balance
so doing strength training will make you as strong as a huge guy and having the advantage of being fast

Crashsti · 06-30-2006, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrumzCT

Monson incidentally does his conditioning with Rhadi Ferguson at IntoCombat

i am glad that someone else has been to IntoCombat!!! you are right that Rhadi Ferguson is incredible and that Jeff Monson does train with him at the Institute of Human Performance in Boca Raton Florida. Monson is indeed a monster. he is 5'8" and like 248lbs.. however his size is basically a side effect of his training routines. i have seen the man workout, he has a DVD available called "the Final Countdown", its his last hard training session two weeks out before he fought Hinkle. what he does is definately not bodybuilding.

SmashingMachine · 07-01-2006, 05:31 PM

Muscle isn't the problem. If you have big muscles and they're long and lean muscles...you're good to go...all the strength can be a huge advantage, but if you get too much mass...you'll be more prone to gassing out. Mark Kerr was huge, and he punished people whenever it got to grappling. MMA, Abu Dhabi, Vale Tudo, etc. But, back to the post topic of bodybuilding exercise programs for MMA...heck no. Most bodybuilders have big, huge, bulky, short muscles; which are highly prone to injury, because they're not flexible. That's why you always read about guys tearing pecs, and biceps and whatnot in magazines like Flex and Muscle and Fitness. Their muscles aren't functional. Randy Couture muscle builds is what all fighters should strive for.

j87gtmd · 07-03-2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

There's two guys I train with that if they can't get the RNC are content to crank my face...to which I often respond with tapping, lol.

what does that mean?

sitnspin · 07-03-2006, 11:22 PM

What part of it wasn't clear? RNC = "rear naked choke." Crank = grabbing on to a part of the body, squeezing it, and bending it in a way it wasn't meant to be bent. Tapping = indicating that you submit, so that period of grappling is over and the two participants start over again from a new position (in a fight, it means the fight's over and the guy who tapped has lost).

lwbfl · 07-04-2006, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j87gtmd

what does that mean?

Pay no attention to SitNSpins reply, he's obviously ill about something right now.

Usually when you can't sink in the rear naked choke it's because you can't get your arm under the chin and onto the neck where you want it. This leaves it on the chin or maybe the nose of your opponent. Usually, if you apply enough pressure and twisting, the pain is enough to make them "tap" or quit.