WCL: Not too shabby... - Fight Forum - MMA - UFC - Boxing - K1

subgenius · 06-19-2007, 01:42 AM

I have been watching the kickboxing promotion known as the World Combat League on the Versus channel. I have to admit that I have been impressed with the production values and with the fights. The rules in the WCL are very impressive in many ways. Almost all of the rules force the fighters to fight. It is actually a penalty when a fighter simply tries to fight a defensive fight.

The points for each fight are all important for the team in the end, so getting penalties for pulling a Mark Hommick and running away from the opponent (as Homminick did in the Gurgel fight) will hurt the team. Passivity gets a penalty point. That forces the fighters to fight.

Also, they have an interesting leg kick rule. A fighter in a match must throw a combination with the leg kick. So, they cannot plan on just leg kicking an opponent during the whole fight. They are again forced to fight. They are forced to throw combinations and dynamic techniques.

The matches are also interesting in that they are each one three-minute round. The shows are set up in two halfs. Each team has six fighters and all six will fight in each half of the team match-up. So, that means each fighter fights two matches with each match being three minutes. The rules force the fighters to fight, so those three minutes are very active and explosive.

And, I have noticed MMA fighters showing up over in the WCL. Remember Danni Abbadi? LOL. He's in the WCL. Pete Sprat? He fights in the WCL. Guy Mezger? Yep, he's there too as a team coach.

I have to say, Chuck Norris put together a pretty good MA promotion. I thought I would hate it. But, I found the fights to be exciting.

Kaledonia · 06-19-2007, 03:17 AM

sounds very interesting

and forcing leg kicks to be part of combinations, i gotta say, is one of the best force moves ive heard off, just makes me remember recently about the liddel vs savage fight where chuckie would throw them out for nigh no reason, only to be clocked whilst comming back into balance heh.

Chuck Norris is god btw, not only did he send somebody back in time with a roundhouse (i still dunno whether to believe that but meh) but he has proven he can dodge machine gun fire and grenade fragments etc.

**EDIT**

Jennifer Santiago... omg!! theres a reason alone to watch this

AikaImmortal · 06-19-2007, 10:35 AM

I DESPISE the WCL. It is nothing but point sparring with no technique, its just two guys windmill punching and spin kicking as fast as they possibly can just to rack points up.. terrible. However, it is good live simply due to the presentation of the un-roped ring. Sadly, after the end of it I felt like I was watching a glorified game of tag, it was nothing like kickboxing should have been.

Kaledonia · 06-19-2007, 10:51 AM

You know how hard point sparring is? :P I havent had the chance to see WCL apart from the teaser trailers they got on the site, and a few knock outs so I cant really comment on that aspect of it, but it looks like fun and the chicks are hot so meh, the more the better i say >.<

subgenius · 06-19-2007, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AikaImmortal

I DESPISE the WCL. It is nothing but point sparring with no technique, its just two guys windmill punching and spin kicking as fast as they possibly can just to rack points up.. terrible. However, it is good live simply due to the presentation of the un-roped ring. Sadly, after the end of it I felt like I was watching a glorified game of tag, it was nothing like kickboxing should have been.

I hate to say it, but it sounds like you never actually watched it because that does not fit with what I saw. Pete Sprat got his ass handed to him and he is supposedly a superior MMA fighter. The fights that I have seen have been fast paced, action packed, and very exciting.

Meh, I guess if you don't like kickboxing, then you don't like kickboxing.

The WCL shows that I watched made K-1 and ISKA look extremely BORING.

mammoth91 · 06-19-2007, 03:49 PM

I'm with you Sub, I like the WCL. The fights are fast with great tempo. I have caught a few ko's as well.

Jras0001 · 06-19-2007, 03:51 PM

I've seen a few of the WCL events on the Vs. channal and I have to say that Im not that impressed with them either. Its just kickboxing with less technique. Some of the matches looked like two guys going at it on the playground but with gloves on.

If you like point based tourneyments and kickboxing, then this might interest you. I'll stick with K1 for my kickboxing however.

Ring_Raider_07 · 06-19-2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

I hate to say it, but it sounds like you never actually watched it because that does not fit with what I saw. Pete Sprat got his ass handed to him and he is supposedly a superior MMA fighter. The fights that I have seen have been fast paced, action packed, and very exciting.

Meh, I guess if you don't like kickboxing, then you don't like kickboxing.

The WCL shows that I watched made K-1 and ISKA look extremely BORING.

You're kidding, right? Aika not like kick boxing?

WCL is lame. The "no leg kicks w/o a combo" rule is freaking lame. The point of leg kicks is to chop the other fighter down. Not score points. This is just a TKD competition w/ an IFL twist. The WCL is lame. Most of these guys would get destroyed in K-1 via superior technique. And I've seen a few WCl events.

AikaImmortal · 06-19-2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

I hate to say it, but it sounds like you never actually watched it because that does not fit with what I saw. Pete Sprat got his ass handed to him and he is supposedly a superior MMA fighter. The fights that I have seen have been fast paced, action packed, and very exciting.

Meh, I guess if you don't like kickboxing, then you don't like kickboxing.

The WCL shows that I watched made K-1 and ISKA look extremely BORING.

Err.. I have 15 or so DVDs imported from Japan from Shootboxing to AJKF (All Japan Kickboxing) to SNKA (Shin Nihon Kickboxing) to R.I.S.E. to K-1. Also have quite a few VCDs with Muay Thai from Lumpini Stadium. I have participated in amateur kicboxing matches in the past as well. WCL is NOT kickboxing in my eyes.

AikaImmortal · 06-19-2007, 05:32 PM

After a little bit of thinking, the closest thing to WCL is 'full contact' karate, which has a very ironic name.. body padding is worn and kicks are NOT allowed below the belt at any time, and the fight is awarded simply on points.

subgenius · 06-19-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AikaImmortal

Err.. I have 15 or so DVDs imported from Japan from Shootboxing to AJKF (All Japan Kickboxing) to SNKA (Shin Nihon Kickboxing) to R.I.S.E. to K-1. Also have quite a few VCDs with Muay Thai from Lumpini Stadium. I have participated in amateur kicboxing matches in the past as well. WCL is NOT kickboxing in my eyes.

Meh, well, it's kickboxing whether you like it or not. I've seen all those other promotions as well. There is nothing new there or innovative. They ALL have points. And, guess what, a lot of the WCL fighters came from ISKA, K-1, and many others. There are Kb champions on the WCL teams. There are Muay Thai champions there as well. Watch the show, and THAT becomes obvious. Painfully obvious.

The WCL is TEAM kickboxing. It is not merely one-on-one kickboxing. And, it is the one kickboxing promotion that has not bored me to death with fights where the fighters are passive and avoid contact hoping to win by impressing the judges (those points guys we hear about so often in EVERY combat sport these days it seems) with a few weak leg kicks.

For the first time in years I actually enjoyed watching kickboxing again. The last K-1 bored me to death so much that I was thinking of never watching kickboxing again. It had become stale like normal one-dimensional boxing with long drawn-out boring ten or twelve round fights where little to nothing happened but a lot of clinching and sweating on each other.

AikaImmortal · 06-19-2007, 05:37 PM

The reason clinch is so dull in K-1 is because they have a strange 'only one strike' rule per clinch.. so say in muay thai fighter a can get fighter b in the clinch and rain down knees, strikes, and throw, in K-1 you can only land one knee strike/punch and then let go of the clinch. Another reason you see the clinch in K-1 as being a stalemate is because there are no elbows in K-1, but there are in Muay Thai.. in most other kickboxing orgs, the clinch is one of the more dangerous positions to be in, not a place to rest.

comucazi · 06-19-2007, 05:39 PM

i'm not a big fan of the wcl,being one who likes grappling and submissions. sean salmon should join so he could do the flying kicks

subgenius · 06-19-2007, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AikaImmortal

After a little bit of thinking, the closest thing to WCL is 'full contact' karate, which has a very ironic name.. body padding is worn and kicks are NOT allowed below the belt at any time, and the fight is awarded simply on points.

That is not the WCL. They do wear leg protection and gloves. But, there are no such limits on kicks. The limit on kicks is that you cannot JUST throw leg kicks as so many kickboxer often do in fights hoping to impress the judges. And, WCL allows clinching, but you better throw Muay Thai techniques or you will lose a point. In other words, they are forced to fight. No clinching to avoid the fight and stifle the action. No constant backing up and running away as is seen in so many kickboxing and MMA matches.

I wish the UFC would adopt some of these rules that force the action. Maybe Okami would have really fought Franklin instead of dancing around like it was ballroom dancing. Don't get me wrong, I still love MMA more than any other combat sport. But, MMA has problems when fighters like Himminick constantly use the run away technique.

subgenius · 06-19-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AikaImmortal

The reason clinch is so dull in K-1 is because they have a strange 'only one strike' rule per clinch.. so say in muay thai fighter a can get fighter b in the clinch and rain down knees, strikes, and throw, in K-1 you can only land one knee strike/punch and then let go of the clinch. Another reason you see the clinch in K-1 as being a stalemate is because there are no elbows in K-1, but there are in Muay Thai.. in most other kickboxing orgs, the clinch is one of the more dangerous positions to be in, not a place to rest.

Elbows and knees are allowed in the WCL. It just seems to me that the WCL is serious about having really fast fights that display very fast action. It is fun for me to watch a KO instide of three minutes where the fighter used a lot of technique in fast paced action. In the WCL clinch you either throw constant techniques or you get a point lost. That served to create great fights. Danni Abbadi, a nobody when in MMA, is in fact a very talented Muay Thai fighter. I watched him clinch and KO a guy with his knees. It was nice.

AikaImmortal · 06-19-2007, 05:45 PM

As for the argument of WCL and kickboxing both having points involved, WCL awards points per individual strike, regardless of effectiveness. I could tap you on the face lighter than a mosquito and get a point.. Standard kickboxing scores a bout by the round, based on knockdowns, strikes landed, effectiveness of said strikes, etc.

subgenius · 06-19-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comucazi

i'm not a big fan of the wcl,being one who likes grappling and submissions. sean salmon should join so he could do the flying kicks

I am usually a fan of almost any combat sport. But, boxing is no longer on my radar. Kickboxing was dropping off very quickly due to the rate of boring matches that went nowhere fast. But, the IFL and the WCL are different types of combat sport. They are team combat sports where every fight is vital to the team's winning effort. That is where the point system comes in. The team standing is based on the points from every fight.

comucazi · 06-19-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Elbows and knees are allowed in the WCL. It just seems to me that the WCL is serious about having really fast fights that display very fast action. It is fun for me to watch a KO instide of three minutes where the fighter used a lot of technique in fast paced action. In the WCL clinch you either throw constant techniques or you get a point lost. That served to create great fights. Danni Abbadi, a nobody when in MMA, is in fact a very talented Muay Thai fighter. I watched him clinch and KO a guy with his knees. It was nice.

i might be wrong but i thought you were only allowed to throw one knee in a clinch?

subgenius · 06-19-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AikaImmortal

As for the argument of WCL and kickboxing both having points involved, WCL awards points per individual strike, regardless of effectiveness. I could tap you on the face lighter than a mosquito and get a point.. Standard kickboxing scores a bout by the round, based on knockdowns, strikes landed, effectiveness of said strikes, etc.

Here is how the points are dealt with: "Each match within the team contest only lasts for three minutes, so each fighter is encouraged to fight constantly in order to earn as many points for their team as possible. Three judges score each fight based on knockdowns, extent of damage inflicted, and the volume of clean-scoring strikes landed. Each judge will award five points to the fighter they see as superior, and four or less points to the opponent. The judges points are combined at the end of each fight (15 points maximum, not counting penalties), and are then added to the teams overall total from the previous fights. The team with the most points at the end of the second half wins."