Phil Baroni vs. a bodybuilder?!?!?!

[Crashsti]

check it out for yourself, a bodybuilder by the name of Craig Titus may be fighting Phil Baroni is either KOTC or Pride. i doubt it will ever happen but who knows. as much as i dislike Phil i don't see him losing.
http://www.emusclemag.com/content.php?cat=1&id=36

[LuvMyCRX®]

Remember that South African powerlifter who fought in the UFC? The White Rhino or some garbage. He got KTFO without throwing a punch, and I see the same for Craig.

[Brandon_Dicken]

I bodybuilder isn't a fighter. People who are big think they'll win just because of that. I hope phil beats him just to prove that muslce doesn't make the fighter.

[Monkey_Man_Jello]

I don't know about a bodybuilder in the UFC, but I doubt it was "The White Rhino", as that's a Fighter called Francis Botha, who is acually a really good boxer, with something like a 65-5-2 record. Not much of a MMA fighter, though...
Bodybuilders arn't just not fighters (great english, no?), they are WEAKER than the average man (fight-wise) as they have lesser flexability and tend to starve themselves to get their muscles to stand out more. Still, it might be interesting fight, if only for novelty sake.

[Brandon_Dicken]

I'd rather see funny novelty fights like Sapp vs 7 dwarfs or Ray Mystrio (from wwe) vs. Fedor or Joe Rogan and Goldie vs Bas and Mauro or the Pride ring girls vs UFC ring girls. See these a good match they should have these as novelty matches

[rugger]

LOL, Titus has always had a big mouth and getting into street fights. He may think he honed his fighting while serving 2 years in prison for a probation violation (using gear while on probation for ecstacy poss.). He earned the nickname "The Bull" in prison is rumored to be very hot-headed and into brawling alot. From what I've seen of Baroni, he's mainly a brawler as well. I have no input either way as to the fight, just providing some info on Titus who again is most famous for dealing X and gear. Two vain big mouths, Baroni and Titus, maybe they'll just flex and yell at each other between look at themselves on the jumbo-trons.

MMJ - "Bodybuilders arn't just not fighters (great english, no?), they are WEAKER than the average man (fight-wise) as they have lesser flexability and tend to starve themselves to get their muscles to stand out more."
C'mon are you kidding? Muscle size has nothing to do with flexibility? Ever heard of Flex Wheeler - the guy was a proBB that was famous for his splits and karate skills. What about all the heavy weight and superheavy BJJ guys with all the pretzel like agility of Royce? And they "starve themselves", keep in mind when you see a bodybuilder in magazines and video they are starved, they have just dieted for 6-16 weeks to reach that ripped state - let them eat carbs and have some sodium and they have all the glycogen nutrients, et al back into their bodies they need.

[Unknown]

Originally Posted by rugger

C'mon are you kidding? Muscle size has nothing to do with flexibility? Ever heard of Flex Wheeler - the guy was a proBB that was famous for his splits and karate skills. What about all the heavy weight and superheavy BJJ guys with all the pretzel like agility of Royce? And they "starve themselves", keep in mind when you see a bodybuilder in magazines and video they are starved, they have just dieted for 6-16 weeks to reach that ripped state - let them eat carbs and have some sodium and they have all the glycogen nutrients, et al back into their bodies they need.

Muscle size doesn’t affect flexibility. But most bodybuilders don't train flexibility. They aren’t too flexible. As I have said before larger muscles get tired quicker.

As for starving themselves Fighters often don't eat the night of weight ins even if they are not cutting weight. Fighters are not always in their best condition either.

But when it comes down to it, a bodybuilder will not do very well in a fight.
Bodybuilding and fight training are very different.


Edit: By the way Rugger. There is button in the lower right hand corner of each post that you can use if you want to quote someone without using " .

[angryjonny]

Man I hope Pride doesn't mess around with this nonsense. Sounds like a good Toughman match. If Baroni doesn't learn anything soon from Coleman he needs to head that direction anyway. He's been hangin with the Hammer House long enough to gain at least the slightest ground game. Hopefully his emberassing loss to Minowa taught him that he can't rely solely on his heavy hands. Well unless he is going against a bodybuilder.

[rugger]

Originally Posted by Unknown

Muscle size doesn’t affect flexibility. But most bodybuilders don't train flexibility. They aren’t too flexible. As I have said before larger muscles get tired quicker.

As for starving themselves Fighters often don't eat the night of weight ins even if they are not cutting weight. Fighters are not always in their best condition either.

But when it comes down to it, a bodybuilder will not do very well in a fight.
Bodybuilding and fight training are very different.


Edit: By the way Rugger. There is button in the lower right hand corner of each post that you can use if you want to quote someone without using " .

Don't get me wrong, I have no idea what real training if any Titus has under his belt with regards to fighting, I am simply dispelling that gross overgeneralization about muscle mass and flexibility. Agreed, the typical BB does not work on flexibility beyond that of stretcing the facia tissue to increase the potential for muscle growth and division. But that does not mean they cannot become as flexible as their genetic limitations will allow(and with no loss to muscle mass as a direct result) just like anyone.

I also think it's irresponsible to dismiss Craig as simply "a bodybuilder", that was a majority of his career and passion, but that is not who he is - I could see with his attitude him becoming a decent fighter, one of UFC calibre, I have no idea.

Quotes, yea, I can do the quote feature, I can even insert VB and html tags - I use to owe, operate and administer a vB board just like this one, but for fitness and bodybuilding.

Be forewarned, I will play Devil's Advocate at times and will not "go along" to be liked, but I am not some ******** ****e talker who gets his rocks off arguing on the net or someone bumping posts to get their post count up. My goal is to learn, educate and keep people open minded.

p.s. Baroni is a former bodybuilder.

[Brandon_Dicken]

Muscle doesn't mean anything in fighting some of the hardest hitters out there look like average guys. The thing I'm trying to say is just because he's big and can lift 300 pounds doesn't mean anything. It has nothing to do with punching kicking submission or anything. For anyone here who really trains think of the first time you hits something and it hurt all over your arm esspecially your joints. Thats waht I call impact its something your body has to get used to a body builder won't have that and it takes away from there overall striking ability, samething with force againest force. A body builder lifts deadweight were a fighter trains with another person who pushes back and shifts that force quickly to go in different directions. Think of someone who just started fighting and you say throw a punch and its just all wrong, a bodybuilder will not win againest a reall mma fighter. The training is completely different I bet the bodybuilder will hype extend his arm on the first punch.

Oh yeah, HEY Jonny how is a loss to Minowa embarassing he's one of the greatet out there.

[angryjonny]

It's not the losing to Minowa that is emberassing. It's the fact that he could not do anything whatsoever. For someone who hangs out with Coleman he is an emberassment. I like both of them Phil just needs to work on his wrestling or defense or something. If not he needs to reconsider his MMA career, maybe consider taking up boxing.

[Crashsti]

Andre Arlovski took up bodybuilding before fighting and he has done very well. of course there is a big differance between AA and any pro bodybuilder. AA has long since given up the bigger at any cost mentality and instead improved his overall abilities. i think if Phil were to ever fight Craig Titus it may very well be the first time in a fight that someone gassed before Phil did. it takes alot of energy to move 250+lbs of bodyweight when its attached to a less than 6ft frame. Titus would gas first round, all Phil would have to do is keep moving around the ring.

[rugger]

I just realized Titus is still and active pro. He took a hiatus and I thought he had retired from competition and was only active in his personal training business. Definitely, carrying typical off season mass around the ring Titus would not last long at all. Since he is still competing I seriously doubt that he is dedicating time to seriously train to fight.

I will not conceded to agree with with this...

Originally Posted by Brandon_Dicken

Muscle doesn't mean anything in fighting

All other things being equal a bigger and stronger fighter will win, period. Hmm...why are there weight classes? Am I saying Titus is Baroni's equal - NO.

Originally Posted by Brandon_Dicken

The thing I'm trying to say is just because he's big and can lift 300 pounds doesn't mean anything.

I am not saying that just because Titus is bigger and stronger it equates to a win, not at all. The point I am making is - don't count someone out because of generalizations and errors in reasoning.

This potential fight will probably never happen anyway, if it does it will be a publicity stunt for whatever production sanctions it.

[Brandon_Dicken]

Originally Posted by rugger

I just realized Titus is still and active pro. He took a hiatus and I thought he had retired from competition and was only active in his personal training business. Definitely, carrying typical off season mass around the ring Titus would not last long at all. Since he is still competing I seriously doubt that he is dedicating time to seriously train to fight.

I will not conceded to agree with with this...

All other things being equal a bigger and stronger fighter will win, period. Hmm...why are there weight classes? Am I saying Titus is Baroni's equal - NO.


I am not saying that just because Titus is bigger and stronger it equates to a win, not at all. The point I am making is - don't count someone out because of generalizations and errors in reasoning.

This potential fight will probably never happen anyway, if it does it will be a publicity stunt for whatever production sanctions it.

They have weight classes because of older contact sports like boxing and kick boxing were the use alot of scince and reason saying one can have more muscle mass and put more behind their blows than a smaller guy. I japan its different people from 185 can fight someone in 225 if they wanted to overall skill determines the winner. Yoshida vs. Tank, Nogeria vs. Sapp, Royce was always the smaller guy when he first started in UFC in fact alot of fights were like this back then. Size doesn't mean nothing, Aleksander was bigger than crocop and what hapened to him.

[rugger]

Originally Posted by Brandon_Dicken

They have weight classes because of older contact sports like boxing and kick boxing were the use alot of scince and reason saying one can have more muscle mass and put more behind their blows than a smaller guy. I japan its different people from 185 can fight someone in 225 if they wanted to overall skill determines the winner. Yoshida vs. Tank, Nogeria vs. Sapp, Royce was always the smaller guy when he first started in UFC in fact alot of fights were like this back then. Size doesn't mean nothing, Aleksander was bigger than crocop and what hapened to him.

That was a rhetorical question, the fact is weight classes are in place to level the field a bit - reach, weight, strength. Heavier, stronger fighters can (I did not say will) win over marginally better skilled fighters often times because of the strength factor. I have seen the fights and I know that smaller, weaker guys with superior skills, better opportunities win often.

I don't think you read the part where I said "all things being equal". Skills and styles will change the fight, I agree, but equal styles, equal skills, equal opportunites and mistakes - the stronger guy will win. That is why fighters train to be stronger, it compliments skill.

More rhetorical questions - If weight/strength means nothing -
Why cut weight for a fight only to make weight in and then come into the ring much heavier?
Why do fighters train to be stronger?

Put a fork in this thread.

rugger
p.s. Save the McRib www.mcrib.com

[mks6968]

I think Baroni vs Titus could be a good match up as long as titus has some form of pre fight training as Rugger was saying titus is known for being a brawler also keep in mind that depending on which shows Titus decides to do this year he can easily readjust his bb program to follow one similar to a mma program and not look as much like a 250 lb bb and more like an mma fighter question is can he fight like one

[Unknown]

Originally Posted by rugger

That was a rhetorical question, the fact is weight classes are in place to level the field a bit - reach, weight, strength. Heavier, stronger fighters can (I did not say will) win over marginally better skilled fighters often times because of the strength factor. I have seen the fights and I know that smaller, weaker guys with superior skills, better opportunities win often.

I don't think you read the part where I said "all things being equal". Skills and styles will change the fight, I agree, but equal styles, equal skills, equal opportunites and mistakes - the stronger guy will win. That is why fighters train to be stronger, it compliments skill.

More rhetorical questions - If weight/strength means nothing -
Why cut weight for a fight only to make weight in and then come into the ring much heavier?
Why do fighters train to be stronger?

The thing is. The goal of bodybuilding isn't strength. Its building your muscles. Bodybuilding isn't just lifting weights. There are other ways of increasing you muscle size. That’s what leaves bodybuilders at a disadvantage in a fight. Their training is geared toward looking goon not performance.

[mepersoner]

Originally Posted by Brandon_Dicken

Yoshida vs. Tank, Nogeria vs. Sapp

Although there is obvious size difference (especially in the second example, not so much the first) both of those matches had people in the same weight class.

[Monkey_Man_Jello]

Originally Posted by Unknown

The thing is. The goal of bodybuilding isn't strength. Its building your muscles. Bodybuilding isn't just lifting weights. There are other ways of increasing you muscle size. That’s what leaves bodybuilders at a disadvantage in a fight. Their training is geared toward looking goon not performance.

That's really what I meant when I said that Bodybuilders are not flexable. Sure, you CAN be huge and still be gumby, but only if you really work at it. What with the time that these people invest into a day's work, flexability training would just mean one more thing to work on with little reward. What does the average bodybuilder need it for?

But to be honest, I really don't know what I'm talking about when I speak of bodybuilding, I'm only repeating what I read in a magazine with an interview with a bodybuilder named Jay Cutler or something. He placed 2nd in the Mr. Universe contest, so I think he knows what he's talking about, and he said that "A lot of bodybuilders don't have flexability" so my comments come from that statement.

[explosive]

bodybuilders do build there muscles for size but at a level where titus is they most often possess incredible strength ......i believe strength will always be the deciding factor over 2 very evenly matched fighters....as for titus , he would have to drop at least 30 to 40 lbs of size to even begin to move at a snails pace because i can guarantee right now he is slower than slow....but....if and this is a big "if".. he puts the amount of dedication into training for MMA as he did with bodybuilding then maybe after a year or 2 he might actually hold his own against baroni......baroni was a bodybuilder as well.....if this fight does happen within the next year ....lol....we will see titus lose cuz i personally believe a guy like titus cant switch his training....it would be a huge mental obstacle to see his hard earned , juiced up , muscle bound body shrivel to a lean fighting physique... you dont get to that level in bodybuilding unless one is bent on getting huge and ripped.....just my 2 cents