Fedor's Myths and Facts

[subgenius]

Originally Posted by T-Bone

I didn't compare HMC to Brock Lesnar. I thought you brought that up b/c of the silly weight differential. I know you don't like Fedor. You don't have to.

Sorry, I responded to you, but that HMC-Lesnar comparison was supposed to be directed at the earlier comparison between the two that somebody made. HMC walks around at 350 pounds. Zuluzinho is like 400 pounds. Hunt is 295 pounds. Fedor is 230 pounds. And, keep in mind that some of these fights had been PRIDE title fights. Coleman and Hunt did not deserve to be in there. They had not achieved anything that showed that they deserved it. Fedor has not fought top talent in three years. And, we can argue about Sylvia, but most people said he was crap before he fought Fedor. The article was a complete BS whitewash of Fedor.

[xVERITASx]

There are alot of great fighters that have been great these last few years, BJ, GSP, Anderson Silva. All these men have done outstanding things. The thing that sets Fedor apart is when these guys were not nearly as impressive as they are today, Fedor was still dominating. Nobody is Fedors equal in this sport yet career wise. Sure some fighters have the potential to be but we can't say till another few years. Fedor was dominating the same time Hughes and Liddell were, now look at those two, they have been struggling. Also Fedor usually fights larger opponents. Hell Fedor doesnt even try to cut weight and fights larger guys. Alot of people just look at fights as WW, MW, etc but heavyweight can have a 50# difference.

[Crazy]

Originally Posted by subgenius

Speaking of GSP, a guy that has fought top talent throughout his career, he is among the best there is out there today. Forget that nonsense about wins and losses. You guys always biotch at me when I use records to support my arguments, so suck it up now and bite that same bullet. I keep hearing from guys like Mir and Nogueira and so forth that "if you have not lost a fight, then you are not fighting top level fighters."
.

That statment kind of looses its meaning when he has beaten Nog twice
Hunt is a very hard match up for any fighter.
He is very respected bouth as a person ad a fighter. You say he lost his last 3 fights but that is not much worse then Sylvia has.If you take a small look at the name bouth of them have been facing there is no shame in thos losses.
The same goes for the names they have beaten. Hunt is a very great fighter.
I find it very childish to bash him.

Edit: I don`t think there are many fighters that will enjoy the problems HMC can give you in a fight.After all he is a good striker in K1 who actually was 1 out of 16 fighters who made it to the main final last year.

[subgenius]

Originally Posted by Crazy

That statment kind of looses its meaning when he has beaten Nog twice
Hunt is a very hard match up for any fighter.
He is very respected bouth as a person ad a fighter. You say he lost his last 3 fights but that is not much worse then Sylvia has.If you take a small look at the name bouth of them have been facing there is no shame in thos losses.
The same goes for the names they have beaten. Hunt is a very great fighter.
I find it very childish to bash him.

Edit: I don`t think there are many fighters that will enjoy the problems HMC can give you in a fight.After all he is a good striker in K1 who actually was 1 out of 16 fighters who made it to the main final last year.

I'm not bashing on them. Hunt has no ground game. Hunt gets submitted by Fedor. Hong-Man Choi has no ground game. Hong-Man Choi gets submitted by Fedor. And, no, you cannot compare Hong-Man Choi's ssireum wrestling from Korea with Fedor's ground game or even Brock Lesnar's NCAA HW National Championship. Hong-Man Choi looked like a clumsy, slow, lumbering giant in there with Fedor, and Hong-Man Choi had NO CHANCE to win that fight. He did not deserve to be in the ring with Fedor in MMA. Hunt and Hong-Man Choi should stick with kickboxing. Also, note that Zuluzinho was also submitted by Fedor. These huge, some might say fat in Zuluzinho's case, fighters did not have the credentials and the skills to deserve shots at Fedor.

[Crazy]

Originally Posted by subgenius

I'm not bashing on them. Hunt has no ground game. Hunt gets submitted by Fedor. Hong-Man Choi has no ground game. Hong-Man Choi gets submitted by Fedor. And, no, you cannot compare Hong-Man Choi's ssireum wrestling from Korea with Fedor's ground game or even Brock Lesnar's NCAA HW National Championship. Hong-Man Choi looked like a clumsy, slow, lumbering giant in there with Fedor, and Hong-Man Choi had NO CHANCE to win that fight. He did not deserve to be in the ring with Fedor in MMA. Hunt and Hong-Man Choi should stick with kickboxing. Also, note that Zuluzinho was also submitted by Fedor. These huge, some might say fat in Zuluzinho's case, fighters did not have the credentials and the skills to deserve shots at Fedor.

Hunt have some ground skills. If you have seen some of his matches you would have known that. He has practiced a lot of escapes and have shown us that many times. Not everyone can have a ground game like Fedor/Nog.
Crocop have no more ground game then Hunt.
Should he stop doing MMA?We have other guys doing mma who have no striking game but are very good in mma, like Big Nog.
Hunt manage to escape 2-3 atemts in that match from Fedor in a very nice manner.Not everyone can say the same.He also was closer to submitting Fedor then anyone we have seen fighting him so far, so I will given him some ground game right there.

If HMC had been smarter he would never gone to the ground.
he did not have to, after all Fedor`s atempt to get him down did not seem to work.If you have to stand with HMC you are in trubble.
I agree he is clumsy though but who are you to tell somone tough enough to walk into the ring with Fedor should not do it.
Fedor was ring rusty at the time and wantet the match and in my eyes it was a dangerous one considdering HMC`s size.

Zuluzinho was not submitted by Fedor, you need to rewatch the match. He got TKO`d.

[subgenius]

Get you facts straight, please. I do not mean that as an attack. But, you said a few things that are clearly incorrect. Zuluzinho, in fact, submitted to strikes. It was ruled a submission. He was NOT knocked out by Fedor. Mirko Filipovic has a ton of ground game more than Hunt and HMC combined. Hunt is 5-4 in MMA and went nearly two years without a match and has lost his last three fights. His only big wins were decision wins.

Should HMC and Hunt leave MMA forever? Okay, I was not really serious about that. But, Hunt had a lot more success in KB than he ever had in MMA. So, that is a consideration. HMC? He needs to be in the SHW division, but nobody seems to have one. Actually, I think KOTC had one. They could only find three guys big enough and qualified enough to fight SHW.

I'm not a fan of the SHW fighters in MMA. They seem clumsy and inarticulate in their skill sets in MMA. Brock Lesnar is as big as I will go and like it, but he can make weight at 265 and HW. So, he's not really in that SHW grouping that I am talking about. Legit HWs like Fedor eat SHW fighters for breakfast, it seems.

[Crazy]

Oh, was it ruled a submission?
So what? Was it his ground game that lost him the fight?I don`t think so.
Whats youre point?
Not that I care. Sulzinnio is really not a good fighter.I don`t think anyone belive he is.

Where is the prof that Cro Cop is better on the ground?
Actually I seen alot more ofrom Hunt on the ground.Statestic is not every thing.
Like I sayd before. Sylvia lost 3 out of his last 4 fight aswell.2 by submission.
Does it means he have no ground game? Not at all.
Anyway. Hunt beat Cro Cop in a fight where Cro Cop was running away for the most of the time.Cro Cop must really be a bad fighter who does not decerve to fight Fedor aswell then, or?
Hunt have not fought much last year and his been looking really rusty latly.
His fight against Overeem was a huge disapointment to me, but I am sure he will come back stronger.

I can see why you don`t like SHW but I see Hunt as a guy that moves very well around carring so much weight.His escapes on the ground is a a proof of that.Watch Fedor/Silva-Hunt to see what I mean.If you don`t agree I can do nothing about it

[subgenius]

Mirko Filipovic, before his UFC run, was the number two or number three HW in the world. When was Mark Hunt ever even in the top ten. When were any of the guys that Fedor has fought between Mirko and Sylvia ever in the top ten HWs anywhere on any ranking? Zuluzinho? No. Hong-Man Choi? Forget about it. Coleman? Well, back in the day when he was in his prime, yeah, but he was not top ten when he fought Fedor that last time.

Cro-Cop trains Croatian police forces in Jiu-Jitsu. There are videos out there that show him training police cadets how to use BJJ submissions. Cro-Cop has been trained by Fabricio Werdum in BJJ. I am sorry, but I cannot agree that Mark Hunt is anywhere near Mirko on the ground. Sure, a lot of guys can defend submissions, but that does not make them great ground fighters. Plus, Mirko knows that his best weapons are in stand-up striking. That's what he does best. Just ask Wanderlei Silva.

And, Mirko defeated Mark Hunt in kickboxing way back in 2002. The fight between Hunt and Mirko in PRIDE at Shockwave 2005 was a SPLIT decision. It was not a unanimous decision. Hunt did not dominate that match. You can characterize it as you like, but a lot of people that I've spoken with thought that Mirko had won that fight. But, the record book shows that he did not. It was not, however, a dominant fight for either of them.

[SeikanJudanski]

Wow are people still talking trash about Zulu or HMC fighting Fedor? Freaking get over it. They weren´t title shots, so who cares.

[Gooner]

Originally Posted by subgenius

Get your facts straight, please.

That's a bit rich considering the circumstances.
Crazy said TKO and you said that "Zuluzinho was also submitted by Fedor".

Zulu got dropped standing and then tapped due to strikes on the ground. Now, I personally think that should be called a TKO, but regardless of what it is called, saying he "was submitted" is not exactly the correct way to describe it.

Originally Posted by subgenius

Mirko Filipovic, before his UFC run, was the number two or number three HW in the world. When was Mark Hunt ever even in the top ten. When were any of the guys that Fedor has fought between Mirko and Sylvia ever in the top ten HWs anywhere on any ranking? Zuluzinho? No. Hong-Man Choi? Forget about it. Coleman? Well, back in the day when he was in his prime, yeah, but he was not top ten when he fought Fedor that last time.

Cro-Cop trains Croatian police forces in Jiu-Jitsu. There are videos out there that show him training police cadets how to use BJJ submissions. Cro-Cop has been trained by Fabricio Werdum in BJJ. I am sorry, but I cannot agree that Mark Hunt is anywhere near Mirko on the ground. Sure, a lot of guys can defend submissions, but that does not make them great ground fighters. Plus, Mirko knows that his best weapons are in stand-up striking. That's what he does best. Just ask Wanderlei Silva.

Why the emphasis on who he fought between so and so?
You've made your mind up about Fedor and won't let facts change that.
First you bitch about all the "cans he's fighting", then you're happy when he's finally about to fight Sylvia... then Fedor disposes of Sylvia like he was a joke and surprise surprise, it proves nothing in sub's mind.
And here we go: "Fedor has not fought top talent outside of Sylvia in over THREE YEARS! He's not the best. He would get tooled in the cage and in the UFC octagon. Right now he's been getting fights that are meaningless and that do not make me feel that he deserves the praise."
Great, you get to keep your nonsense argument by adding a three words to it.

Fedor has proven he's #1 through the years. Everyone who's not biased knows this. I'm sure Nog knows it too.


-I remember Hunt being ranked in the top after he had beaten Wandy and Crocop (Crocop was #2 at the time).
-Oh, Crocop trains BJJ to police cadets? That changes everything!

[Crazy]

Originally Posted by subgenius

Cro-Cop trains Croatian police forces in Jiu-Jitsu. There are videos out there that show him training police cadets how to use BJJ submissions. Cro-Cop has been trained by Fabricio Werdum in BJJ. I am sorry, but I cannot agree that Mark Hunt is anywhere near Mirko on the ground. Sure, a lot of guys can defend submissions, but that does not make them great ground fighters.

I don`t care what Cro Cop trains, and I allready knew this anyway.
I care about what he uses inside the ring wich is not much.A standing guillitin, some ground and pound and some defence doing no atack at all from his back is all I ever seen from him on the ground.I remember one game where Cro Cop had dominant position.It is one of the fights agains Josh Barnet. He had full mount and was not abe to do anything.

Hunt have more then one time rolled out of armbars reversing the situations where he ends up on top wich count.He`s not only been defending but his been improving his position to wich counts more then "just to defend".

[subgenius]

Originally Posted by Gooner

Zulu got dropped standing and then tapped due to strikes on the ground. Now, I personally think that should be called a TKO, but regardless of what it is called, saying he "was submitted" is not exactly the correct way to describe it.

Don't complain to me about it. Go to Sherdog, Wikipedia, and PRIDE Fighting Championships and let them have it real good. THEY all agree that Zuluzinho SUMBITTED. So, it is exactly correct to say that. I will go on saying that as THAT is what the record book says.

And, no, Mark Hunt has never been in the top ten HW in the world. His own BIO says as much. He was never in the top ten at MMA Weekly or Sherdog or any of the places online, which are meaningless, but you guys swear by them. Mark Hunt was not top ten when he fought Fedor.

No amount of BS is going to erase the circus sideshow freak matches that Fedor had between his fights with Cro-Cop and Sylvia. I actually give credit to Sylvia, but most of YOU GUYS do not. Fedor is on track NOW to fight better opponents. Barnett and Arlovski will help bring Fedor back to fighting real opponents that actually have a chance of defeating him.

[Gooner]

Originally Posted by subgenius

Don't complain to me about it. Go to Sherdog, Wikipedia, and PRIDE Fighting Championships and let them have it real good. THEY all agree that Zuluzinho SUMBITTED. So, it is exactly correct to say that. I will go on saying that as THAT is what the record book says.

I'm just saying it was a petty thing for you to complain about.
It's not like saying "Fedor submitted Zulu" gives the right idea about how that fight went.

Originally Posted by subgenius

And, no, Mark Hunt has never been in the top ten HW in the world. His own BIO says as much. He was never in the top ten at MMA Weekly or Sherdog or any of the places online, which are meaningless, but you guys swear by them. Mark Hunt was not top ten when he fought Fedor.

*clears throat*
Get your facts straight, please.


#1 Heavyweight Fighter in the World: Fedor Emelianenko
2. Mirko Cro Cop
3. Josh Barnett
4. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
5. Tim Sylvia
6. Andrei Arlovski
7. Aleksander Emelianenko
8. Fabricio Werdum
9. Mark Hunt
10. Sergei Kharitonov
Updated MMA weekly fighter rankings - MMAForums.net

Have I proven you wrong now?
First time?

Originally Posted by subgenius

No amount of BS is going to erase the circus sideshow freak matches that Fedor had between his fights with Cro-Cop and Sylvia. I actually give credit to Sylvia, but most of YOU GUYS do not. Fedor is on track NOW to fight better opponents. Barnett and Arlovski will help bring Fedor back to fighting real opponents that actually have a chance of defeating him.

And no amount of wins over top talent will convince you that he's #1, since you've obviously went from irrationally hating BJ to irrationally hating Fedor.
Doesn't matter. The rest of the world knows how it is. Ta.

[subgenius]

Well, his bio said that he never broke the top ten. Funny that you linked a FORUM and NOT to MMA Weekly itself. PRIDE FC never ranked him in the top ten. I don't accept or trust some post at some other forum. But, even giving you that he might have broken the top ten, I do not find number nine worthy of fighting number one when there are seven other guys more worthy. THAT is my whole point. Fedor has NOT been fighting top talent worthy of his so-called greatness and his once worshipped PRIDE FC HW title regardless if they had a title fight with him or non-title.

White-wash Fedor all you like, but you CANNOT erase the matches that took place between Fedor fighting Mirko and Fedor fighting Sylvia. You can try to defend Mark Hunt as a viable and worthy opponent, but I don't buy it. I remain unconvinced. Fedor had a run of freakshow matches. I do not respect that. He fought guys that could not defeat him.

Now, Fedor had better fight top guys, or he will become a joke in MMA.

[basslogic4003]

Originally Posted by subgenius

Now, Fedor had better fight top guys, or he will become a joke in MMA.

Don't generalize like that. He will become a joke to you, not to the rest of the world. I'm sure Fedor will sleep well at night regardless of what subgenius thinks about him.

[Gooner]

Originally Posted by subgenius

Well, his bio said that he never broke the top ten. Funny that you linked a FORUM and NOT to MMA Weekly itself. PRIDE FC never ranked him in the top ten. I don't accept or trust some post at some other forum.

Yeah, because people planted all those false rankings on different MMA forums years ago just to do a number on you.

I would have linked to MMA weekly but I couldn't find their old rankings anywhere. Luckily I found this magical tool called Google.
Look, here's another one...
MMAweekly Rankings Updated
That's twigz back in April 2007 trying to mess with your head. Lies, I tell you!



OK, twigz's link to MMA weekly actually worked still.
- MMAWEEKLY RANKINGS UPDATED - MMA WEEKLY - Mixed Martial Arts & UFC News, Photos, Rankings & more

Originally Posted by subgenius

Blah blah blah...
Now, Fedor had better fight top guys, or he will become a joke in MMA.

LOL.
Good stuff.

[subgenius]

Originally Posted by basslogic4003

Don't generalize like that. He will become a joke to you, not to the rest of the world. I'm sure Fedor will sleep well at night regardless of what subgenius thinks about him.

No, Fedor told me that my opinion is the only opinion that he cares about. Fedor and I are friends. He'll be over tonight for Vodka and stuffed cabbage rolls. He says all of you guys do not know what you are talking about.


LOL. Just kidding.

[basslogic4003]

Originally Posted by subgenius

No, Fedor told me that my opinion is the only opinion that he cares about. Fedor and I are friends. He'll be over tonight for Vodka and stuffed cabbage rolls. He says all of you guys do not know what you are talking about.


LOL. Just kidding.

So who is the number one Heavyweight?

[subgenius]

Originally Posted by Gooner

Yeah, because people planted all those false rankings on different MMA forums years ago just to do a number on you.

Whatever. He ranked nine and ten. So, find a ranking that shows he deserved to fight Fedor, who is eteranlly number one to you guys. Can you do that? Can you justify Hunt fighting Fedor? You cannot. Hunt was given the fight with Fedor because Mirko and Barnett could not compete. So, PRIDE FC, with ALL of the best HW fighters in the world, could not find a top ranked guy to fight Fedor? Again, whatever. Hunt took the fight, and he did well. But, it was still a fight that was not worthy of Fedor and his, at that time, world title.

Fedor needed to fight top talent to stay at number one in my book. As far as I am concerned, Fedor is way down at number five or number six, even with a win over Sylvia. Until Fedor fights top guys IN A CAGE, I will not have much respect for what he does in a ring against hand picked guys that have no chance to beat him.

[subgenius]

Originally Posted by basslogic4003

So who is the number one Heavyweight?

Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira

That's it. Simple as that.

Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira

Now, there is a true champion that fights top guys nearly every time he fights. He fought Zuluzinho and submitted him. Outside of that match, Big Nog's record is impressive. So what if Fedor has a few wins over Big Nog. THAT was way back in 2004. This is 2008. I honestly believe that, now, Big Nog would defeat Fedor in the octagon.