Big John McCarthy On Life And Weed

T-Bone · 10-07-2008, 11:12 AM

I think most of the time, the people mentioning the addiction factor are the ones who have never smoked. To each his own.

I know a bunch of people who still smoke somewhat regularly and they're quite successful. On the flip side, there are slackers too but who's to say they wouldn't be slackers anyway?

Anyway, as it's been said, it doesn't affect everyone the same way but I have yet to see someone really suffer from this so-called "cannabis dependence".

AikaImmortal · 10-07-2008, 11:30 AM

Like I said, you rarely if ever see the actual DSM IV diagnosis used in a mental health clinic setting.

fullonshred · 10-07-2008, 01:22 PM

Aika, the fact that you rarely use that diagnosis doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Marijuana is addictive for some, and not for some others. I was addicted to it, and I suffered withdrawal symptoms when weed ran dry. I was depressed, anxious, fearful and frustrated. I didn't sleep as well. My eating habits changed. I moved heaven and earth trying to scrounge up something to smoke so I wouldn't have to feel that way. I also built physical tolerance to weed, meaning I had to smoke more or better stuff to get the buzz I was used to getting. This is another sign of physical dependence. I was not unique in these experiences. And I wasn't nearly as heavy a smoker as many of my friends.

A mistake most people make is comparing marijuana to heroin and other opiates. For years many "educated" people taught that cocaine was not an addictive substance because there was very limited physical withdrawal syndrome when compared to opiates. They were wrong and eventually medical science caught up with reality. Few people today would argue that cocaine is not addictive for some people. But again, like most drugs even cocaine is not addictive for all.

Dr. Eric J. Nestler did some excellent work where he exposed significant physical withdrawal symptoms in cannabis users. He figured out that THC remains in the body for up to 30 days after last use providing a sort of built in detox/tapering off from from that drug. In a study where heavy daily smokers were given a drug that blocks the uptake of THC to the receptors in the brain that allow you to get high it was found that sudden cessation of cannabis use brought about significant physical withdrawal symptoms. Not as severe as in opiate addicts, but similar in nature. The control group that was not given the Blocking Drug experienced the usual lesser symptoms of cannabis withdrawal, or none at all.

T-Bone, I know many raging alcoholics who are highly successful in their corporate/financial lives but still suffer the negative effects of alcoholism in other important areas of life including at various times but not limited to physical, mental and emotional health, family and social relationships and legal problems. Addiction is no respecter of race, color, creed, religion or lack of religion, social status, intelligence, physical strength, or any other factor. A small percentage of unfortunate people from every imaginable walk of life suffer from addiction.

Mammoth, I have no problem with someone choosing to smoke weed. A few of my friends still smoke occasionally. They are not like I was with it, so they are good to go unless they get arrested. Most of my friends also drink in a non-destructive fashion. I have no problem with that either. I do dislike it when folks claim cannabis is as harmless as mother's milk and that it is not an addictive drug. Might be true for you, and good on ya, but it isn't true for some others.

As with all things in life, we each have to make our own choices. I figured out years ago that for me weed and alcohol were interfering with where I wanted to be in life so they had to go. In my case it was the right decision.

subgenius · 10-07-2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullonshred

Marijuana is addictive for some, and not for some others. I was addicted to it, and I suffered withdrawal symptoms when weed ran dry. I was depressed, anxious, fearful and frustrated. I didn't sleep as well. My eating habits changed. I moved heaven and earth trying to scrounge up something to smoke so I wouldn't have to feel that way. I also built physical tolerance to weed, meaning I had to smoke more or better stuff to get the buzz I was used to getting. This is another sign of physical dependence. I was not unique in these experiences. And I wasn't nearly as heavy a smoker as many of my friends.

It seems to me that you had serious problems that you blamed on marijuana. There are NO withdrawal symptoms for marijuana. The depression, anxiety, fearfulness, and frustration can be caused by a million different things outside of any drug use at all. Lack of sleep is also a mark of a serious issue outside of drug use. Eating habits change all the time without drug use. You were not using marijuana to have fun. You were using it to try to self-medicate your way out of a deep depression caused by events in your life (big or small).

It could even be a pre-existing chemical imbalance in your own physiology that caused most, if not all, of those symptoms. Marijuana can regulate some of those with its euphoric ("high" or "buzzed") effects, and when you stop using it you get the symptoms. It may not have anything to do with taking any drugs at all. Clinical depression is an evil illness. Many people have it undiagnosed and they do not even know it.

Tolerance to weed is a relative myth. Marijuana comes in a wide variety of potency. One week you might buy an awesome strain of it and get really high. The next week you could get rag-weed, dirt weed, or some other lesser weed that will not get you as high. It is not relative to mental state. THC takes 30-to-45 days to clear your system, but the high does NOT last that long. It leaves the brain and filters through the body out of your system. There is NO point of OD for marijuana. You cannot smoke yourself into a visit to the hospital.

I'm sorry, but what you said is just not washing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullonshred

Mammoth, I have no problem with someone choosing to smoke weed. A few of my friends still smoke occasionally. They are not like I was with it, so they are good to go unless they get arrested. Most of my friends also drink in a non-destructive fashion. I have no problem with that either. I do dislike it when folks claim cannabis is as harmless as mother's milk and that it is not an addictive drug. Might be true for you, and good on ya, but it isn't true for some others.

That is a mental addiction. Chemicals do not affect one person and not another. It might happen in degrees, but never all or nothing. Marijuana has NO ill effects that have been documented as harmful. Meanwhile, alcohol attacks almost every organ of the human body, especially the kidneys and the liver and the heart. Documented proof of death by drunken driving and by the unhealthful effects of alcohol number in the MILLIONS. I don't buy this some get addicted and some don't. That is not true of any other drug (legal or not).

subgenius · 10-07-2008, 02:35 PM

Anyway, we have gone way off on a tangent, I guess.

Let's try to swing back...

What bothers me about the Nick Diaz situation is that he likely had not smoked any weed in a month or so before his match with Gomi (IIRC, that was the match were he popped positive). Diaz, if he had not smoked in thirty days, had NO marijuana high or effects at the time of the match. It would not have helped him or hindered his performance. His body was still filtering the drug from his body and that would be about all it was in that case.

But, Diaz said that he smoked to gain focus due to ADD or ADHD, right? If that is the case, then he did make a huge mistake. That is a form of self-medicating for a serious problem, which I do NOT condone under any circumstances. If his doctor suggested that he smoke weed to over-come ADD and ADHD, then I would be suspicious of that too. As far as I know, there is no documented evidence that marijuana helps or treats ADD or ADHD.

Marijuana does help with focus. I know from experience that it can help to focus on one thing in order to eliminate distraction. But, this is minor. It does not shut out the world or create tunnel-vision. I know people that like to smoke weed and play video games. They claim it makes it more fun. Those are the guys like John Stewart in Half-Baked where he asks if you ever tried something cool, and then have you ever tried it on weed. So, it does have some enhancement on the fun of the experience.

I just do not know many people that like to get high and get into fights. I do know people that are highly aggressive, but it was not due to pot. They were that way before smoking pot.

DISCO · 10-07-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AikaImmortal

Like I said, you rarely if ever see the actual DSM IV diagnosis used in a mental health clinic setting.

Wrong. The DSM IV (or the Dismal 4) as we like to call it is used extensively where I work. Every one of us uses it. And every office like ours uses it. Come to think about it, we can't take one step without referring to it. It's used extensively.

And for the record, Fullonshred, you have a lot of addiction knowledge... I wonder what it is you do.

subgenius · 10-07-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DISCO

Wrong. The DSM IV (or the Dismal 4) as we like to call it is used extensively where I work. Every one of us uses it. And every office like ours uses it. Come to think about it, we can't take one step without referring to it. It's used extensively.

And for the record, Fullonshred, you have a lot of addiction knowledge... I wonder what it is you do.

Just so people know, here is what Disco and Aika are talking about:

"Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th Edition, Text Revision, also known as DSM-IV-TR, is a manual published by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) that includes all currently recognized mental health disorders. The coding system utilized by the DSM-IV is designed to correspond with codes from the International Classification of Diseases, commonly referred to as the ICD. Since early versions of the DSM did not correlate with ICD codes and updates of the publications for the ICD and the DSM are not simultaneous, some distinctions in the coding systems may still be present. For this reason, it is recommended that users of these manuals consult the appropriate reference when accessing diagnostic codes."

And, just because it gets used or not in any mental health field does NOT mean that it is Biblically correct about anything that it contains. I took four semesters of Psychology and a lot of what appears in that manual has been hyped and generated from propaganda. The Mental Health Industry cannot be seen defending ANY illegal drugs.

AikaImmortal · 10-07-2008, 03:22 PM

I work for the State of Texas department of State Health Services, Mental Health division, in a regional community clinic [and loathe it.. heh]. What I was referring to was the DSM IV "Cannibis Dependency" segment specifically. We have more copies of the DSM IV around here than the Vatican has copies of the Bible.

subgenius · 10-07-2008, 03:31 PM

The DSM-IV has trouble defining use versus abuse. And, in some cases, mental health officials have classified all use as abuse, but that is not accepted across-the-board. As a matter of fact, peer-reviewed articles and studies have been done to settle the issue of use (in moderation) versus abuse (excessive use, OD, etc) for a whole host of drugs.

Just so you guys know, marijuana is the most widely used illegal drug in American and in the world. Some estimates had it that over 150 million Americans had either tried marijuana or smoked it on a regular basis (at least once per week). In fact, that number was considered too conservative by some. In one study that I read in 2001, it stated that nine out of ten people admitted smoking marijuana at some point in their lives.

The MAIN reason that TV commercials target marijuana and NOT crack cocaine is because something like 10,000 times more people use marijuana than crack cocaine. The mental health field has been compelled by politicians and lobbyists and alcohol and tobacco special interest groups to demonize marijuana completely.

CounterPuncher · 10-07-2008, 03:51 PM

Well since we were talking about Big John I might as well mention that he possibly could make a return to refereeing.

- BIG JOHN EXITS FIGHT NETWORK, CONSIDERS REFFING - MMA WEEKLY - Mixed Martial Arts & UFC News, Photos, Rankings & more

mammoth91 · 10-07-2008, 04:10 PM

Shred, I never intended to insult you. Having addictions is no laughing matter and I can relate... I am a person that likes to smoke weed but I can and do respect your challenges...

subgenius · 10-07-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CounterPuncher

Well since we were talking about Big John I might as well mention that he possibly could make a return to refereeing.

I hope he returns to refereeing. I always liked him as the ref in a match.

DISCO · 10-07-2008, 04:33 PM

I need to vent!

Talking about and arguing diagnoses and DSM and abuse vs use vs dependence is making FIGHT FORUM FEEL LIKE WORK! That's what I'm supposed to be doing right now, screening my fellow Sailors, Marines, Army-dudes, Air Force and Coasties...and providing Level I Outpatient treatment to them! I'd LIKE to get back to taking a mental time out and talk about how some dude is likely to pound some other dude into the canvass. Or issues related.

For the record I am stunned at the depth of addiction knowledge crash-coursed in the previous posts. Didn't think I'd run into THIS when I joined the forum.

Now where was I... ah yes... making medical referrals and identifying dual-diagnosis [enhanced] treatment centers... ah PTSD.

AikaImmortal · 10-07-2008, 04:44 PM

Ugh.. work. I have to update loads of intra-office literature and state documentation forms since we no longer in Texas are allowed to use the term Mental Retardation, or the MR acronym. Now it is IDD. Individuals with Developmental Delay.. or something like that. I can't remember what exactly it stands for to be honest.

fullonshred · 10-08-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammoth91

Shred, I never intended to insult you. Having addictions is no laughing matter and I can relate... I am a person that likes to smoke weed but I can and do respect your challenges...

Mammoth, in no way shape or form did you insult me, nor did I feel you attempted to do so - not even for a second.

I thought your post was just fine, and just wanted to let you know I don't view cannabis as the devil - but that it is addictive for some who smoke it. As stated, I have had some friends who smoke occasionally and I don't mind that because they are not abusing nor addicted to the drug. They do understand my preference not to be around it and don't smoke when we hang out.

Tone is so difficult to tell in written word - please understand that my tone whether spoken or written, is almost always laid back - unless you see a lot of exclamation points.

I do hope I didn't insult or upset you - that was never my intention.

I have tried to make clear and will again that with weed, as with most drugs, only a percentage of those who use will become addicted. I don't view all pot smokers as addicts. It would be inaccurate to do so.

subgenius · 10-08-2008, 09:12 PM

Well, if it is addictive, then a lot of people are going to be freaking out very soon. Some here may have no clue, but marijuana has dried up in most of the country in the last few weeks. This happens with nearly ever Presidential election season. It starts during the summer just before the election. Some dealers have some stocked up that they make last until about NOW.

A lot of the people that I know are calling around EVERYWHERE to find out who is holding. I had a guy that I had not talked with in over a year call me asking if I knew anybody that had it. I said, "Nope." They are going through what is often called "Jonesing." It's not withdrawal. They just want to catch a buzz and it's not around. So, here comes the BIG TEST! LOL.