Crashsti

seems a bit expensive, almost $40 for 15 servings and each serving has just 14g of protein and a whopping 60g of carbs.

rugger

Crash,

It is expensive, but for me it's a no brainer - I am allergic to whey and casein, so Egg and Soy are the only protein powders available to me until now. I have been looking for a substitue for whey for years. Not only is there a replacement, but a product that is leap and bounds ahead of today's whey. The owner of ProteinFactory, who by the way makes a lot more on selling Whey than PeptoPro told me that PeptoPro is basically the only significant advance in Protein supplementation in 7 years.

I'll compare my label with this one, I believe it's actually 17 servings. Keep in mind that this is specifically a pre and post workout mix, that is why the carbs are so high. Insulin spiking is the purpose and that spike will ensure that the protein is crammed right where it's needed. As for the protein count, you may think of 14 as low, as did I. But considering that these are di and tri peptides, your body will utilize them at closer to 100% vs 60%. Whole proteins have to be broken down to be used by the body, peptides do not.

In the future I will buy PeptoPro in pure protein form and dextrose and mix them myself, that is typically what I have done over the years with my egg and soy, much cheaper. At this point I am just trying it out and so far I like it.

Cons:
Cost
Not available locally

Pros:
Taste - no eggy taste and no grit (soy is gritty)
Mixability - mix in water in seconds (try that with egg or soy)
Absorbtion
Assimilation
Less sore day after training (better recovery)


More hoopla...but my point is keeping the overall picture in mind, peptides are more efficient:
Bioavailability of Amino Acids

A certain portion of the protein we consume is not absorbed by our body but degraded by bacteria in our intestinal tract. Sometimes up to 40% of the consumed protein can disappear during the process. Also, a portion of the absorbed protein which reaches our blood is not used for protein synthesis but for energy production. In that case, the amino acids are transformed into carbohydrates by the gluconeogenesis in the liver. The liver transforms excess amino acids into carbohydrates by the gluconeogensiss in the liver. The liver transforms excess amino acids into glucose (gluconeogenesis) and the nitrogen of the amino acids is turned into ammonia and excreted as urea via the urine. The more nitrogen is found in the urine the more amino acids have been burned for energy production instead of being used for their main purpose, protein synthesis. The lower the nitrogen excretion in the urine, the more amino acids have been used for protein synthesis. This is called nitrogen retention and the higher the nitrogen retention; the more amino acids have been used for building new proteins in our body. Studies from Boza have shown that the nitrogen retention is highest for milk peptides, higher than that from free amino acids or intact protein. That means that the amino acids from milk derived peptides (like PeptoPro) are better and more rapidly absorbed having a higher bioavailability for protein synthesis than amino acids from normal protein and free amino acids.

Whether the peptides are absorbed by the mucosa and what the mucosa releases into the blood is still a question. The mucosa cleaves the peptides further into single amino acids and releases them into the blood stream. But if this was always true, all proteins would appear as free amino acids. This would not explain the different metabolic, physiologic and pharmaceutical response of our body to different proteins and peptides. It is more likely that some smaller peptides are entering the blood stream as such and then causing different metabolic reactions.

Protein Hydrolysates (Industrial Peptides)

Proteins are very stable compounds that can be cleaved by under chemical conditions such as strong acids and high temperatures but also biologically by specific enzymes called proteases. Our body has to work hard to cleave proteins into smaller molecules. Protein digestion takes time and consumes energy. Some proteins, like casein or red meat, need more time to digest than other resources (for example like egg, fish or chicken protein). Sometimes our body has a reduced ability to digest protein; this is common in people who are ill, in those people with intestinal problems or elderly people with a reduced production of digestive enzyme. In these cases, an industrially prepared protein hydrolysate offers the advantage that the protein is already cleaved into smaller portions called peptides which are easier and more rapidly absorbed than the whole, intact protein. The speed of absorption is dependent on the size of the peptide in the protein hydrolysate. The more di- and tri-peptides a hydrolysate contains, the faster is the direct uptake of the amino acids/peptides into the body.

In industrial production of protein hydrolysates, enzymatic treatment offers advantages over chemical treatment. Chemical modification is not desirable for food applications because of the harsh reaction conditions, non-specific chemical reactions and difficulties when removing residual reagents from end-products. Enzymes, on the other hand, have several advantages, including fast reaction rates at mild conditions and most importantly, high specificity. Hydrolysates had been produced for long time and all companies are mostly using similar enzymes called proteases to cut the protein. Unfortunately all the existing industrial protein hydrolysates taste extremely bitter and have a very unpleasant taste and smell. One of the reason for this was that the most hydrophobic praline bonds could be cleaved by any existing enzyme and that was one of reason that in these hydrolysates a lot of proline rich peptides are formed which are extremely bitter. PeptoPro protein now contains the first patented praline specific enzyme to cleave praline bonds and to destroy the bitter praline peptides. PeptoPro Protein contains the first naturally debittered hydrolysate which has the least bitter taste of all hydrolysates.

All enzymes are also proteins or peptides containing various amino acids. For example The proteasic enzyme Chymotrypsin is also a peptide containing 29 amino acids. Its interesting that peptides itself are used to cleave and digest other proteins and peptides.

AikaImmortal

Hmm, very interesting and in depth. Thanks rugger!

__________________

rugger

Thanks...a lot of that is a copy/paste job...you know that, right?

I am very interested to see some head to heade PeptoPro vs Whey clinical trials (involving trained athletes rather than the sedentary elderly as many protein trials contain). Understanding digestion and protein absobtion to a decent degree it makes perfect sense that PeptoPro has a higher real-world bioavailability.

Interesting reads regarding Peptides:
http://journals.cambridge.org/downlo...95a37a3d8fa71f

FatCatMC

I'm confused.

This is a casein protein. Not only that but casein protein is far from ideal post workout due to its slow absorption rate.

Most people I know that are allergic to whey protein powders use Pea Protein. Seems to be a bit more cost effective too. (compared to the Sonic Protein that is)

rugger

This is not just casein, you are right casein has a very slow absorption rate. This is hydrolyzed and debitterized casein...

The patented PeptoPro enzyme breaks proteins down into the smallest of parts. These di- or tripeptides comprise two or three amino acids. They are water soluble, no longer bitter and are immediately taken up in the body.

Why this is not done with Whey, I have no idea. I do know that Whey is usually the portion of milk that people are often highly allergic too if not the lactose.

rugger

FatCat -

All these years and I had never heard of athletes supplementing with Pea Protein. Probably because it has a very poor bioavailability, it's a 49 out of 100 BV, which means it would bascically be more efficicient to consume solid foods to get the protein. Or at best consuming pea protein WITH a meal (containing protein) would result if a more complete amino acid profile (assuming that meal is not all peas and carrots). It's definitely a supplement of the lowest value. Unless soy causes your friends problems (hey many people have allergies to it) I would recommend soy over pea. Soy has several benefits including a positive cholesterol impact...and damn that Silk Soy Lite Chocolate tastes so good.

Isolated Whey: 100
Whole Egg: 93.7
Cow’s Milk: 91
Egg Whites: 83
Fish: 83
Casein: 80
Beef: 80
Chicken: 79
Soy: 74
Wheat Gluten: 54
Kidney Beans: 49

Hydrolyzed casein is too new and Peas don't make the cut.

Ultimately regardless of BV, PER, NPER, etc the substance net effects on Nitrogen Balance is most important. Positive nitrogen balance is what's important when it comes to sparring and rebuilding muscle.

p.s regarding BV BV = (nitrogen retained / nitrogen absorbed) * 100
Some sources have stated that some proteins result in a higher than 100 score, but given that Egg was the original 'yardstick' it's understandable, since whey is higher than egg.

rugger

I have sent an email to PeptoPro National Account Manager for the US. He has been very helpful. I am asking if the BV or PER has been established and also to get a heads up on any upcoming clinical or university studies.

p19101

What kind of carbs is that? That label says 58 grams of sugar? English isn't my primary language so I will try to get this right, correct me if I'm wrong. The sucrose (sugar) will be 50% glucose and 50% fructose. While glucose is good for recovery after weightlifting, fructose isn't. Fructose is of no use at all for the body after weightlifting. Fructose will be stored by the liver and the liver can only store 80-100g of fruktose and after that it will be stored as fat.

So to my question again, are those really 58 grams of SUGAR? If so I wouldn't even consider taking this supplement after weightlifting.

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FatCatMC

rugger

The carbs come from d-glucose (aka dextrose) which absolutely ideal for post workout. While how much fructose the liver can process and store can differ VERY greatly from one individual to another, I'll agree that fructose is not an ideal carbohydrate for post-workout. (Ah, the Pentose Pathway, another past-time hobby). Regardless, we're getting dextrose and a small amount of sucralose (aka Splenda) in this particular formula.

To avoid confusion - Sonic is ProteinFactory's product that contains DSM's PeptoPro. The label in Sonic is not PeptoPro's label per se.

Hydrolysis is nothing new, before I developed an allergy to whey I drank the old school liquid aminos - yes, taste like complete ass. What is new is the patent process that DSM has developed. What is it, hell we don't know - it's patented. DSM is a European company (a very good thing IMO, European supplement laws are strict), I expect it will take a bit of time to take over the market, but if DSM's claims are true it will (and it's produced at a rate that reduces the cost). So, yes, I agree if it's good it will sell itself, all that crap is their marketing blurb. DSM is already working with GNC and Vitamin Shoppe to get PeptoPro product introduced to a large market, it's already available a few places...

proteinfactory.com for Sonic Protein and Anapure
nutribevscience.com for RAD drinks and powders
Genesistoday.com for Protein 100
completepitcher.com for Power Hitter and complete pitcher
karmicrevenge.com for Revamp powders
drinklockload.com for Lock & Load RTD beverage

I don't understand the red flag, you can google PeptoPro and find plenty of hits. Go to proteinfactory and search peptopro or sonic if you want to see this label.

Reto Reider has sent me a couple of PDFs containing several athletic trials conducted by James Madison U. When I get a moment I will find them on the net independantly. This much I do know, DSM provided the grant for the research, but that is nothing new.

Again, personally I am very excited because it's a product with a high BV and very fast absorption, a combination I have been without since I became allergic to whey (and milk protein in general) around 98ish I think?

rugger

I will still use egg/soy for Meal Replacements and pre-bedtime, atleast for now. Although, I am eating turkey moreso before bed these days.

rugger

While I found much of this interesting the PeptoPro portion (performance improvement and muscle damaged reduction) starts page 49
http://www.jmu.edu/cisat/pdfs/FRD2006BookletPDF.pdf