Kentified

So I've been thinking about taking creatine for awhile and my friend just told me a guy at his gym started taking creatine then stopped and got fat and it had the same effect as steroids on his "nether regions".

Anyone know how true this is?

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lwbfl

Yes I do. It's all BS. Creatine makes your muscles hold water, which is what the muscle fibers use for leverage when contracting. Force more water in, get more leverage some say. I tried it when it first got really popular. I gained about 5lbs in the first week (water weight) and thought I was getting stronger. I quit using it, pissed out the water and had better workouts. It will give you cramps if you get low on water, and gave me massive pumps to the point that I couldn't use my muscles fully. Not a good thing for me, especially now that I'm training in MMA. It can't make you fat, only poor diet can, and creatine has no effect on your nads. Thats too funny. Creatine in found in all meat, especially high in red meat. So if that were true, eating steak would make your nads shrink and you'd get fat too.

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Gygax

I wrote a big post about Creatine on another board, so I'm just going to cut & paste it to here. Hope no one minds..
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The primary reasoning behind creatine supplementation has to do with the creatine phosphate cycle of fuel use. The body's primary fuel source for anaerobic activity is ATP. The body takes between 2-5 seconds to start converting ADP (used ATP) back into ATP for fuel use. But what does the body do during those first seconds of explosive exercise? That's where the creatine phosphate comes into play. Through a very easy conversion, the CP donates a phosphate molecule to the ADP to convert it back into ATP. This takes place until the normal manner of recreating ATP takes place - the Krebs cycle. So the theory is by loading creatine, there will be more ATP available for more explosive use, especially weight lifting. And this is exactly what it does. It is very effective muscle builder.

Side effects. As pointed out by everyone, dehydration is the biggest concern because of the way the creatine causes the muscle cells to absorb water meant to be in the bloodstream. Most NCAA weightrooms supply creatine monohydrate. I've seen it in 55 gallon drums! But almost to a school, the use of this supplement is banned in season. This is due to the insane amounts of cramping and muscle pulls that occur due to the supplementation.

Eight years ago in an 18 day period, three NCAA wrestlers passed away due to dehydration. In the previous 75 years of NCAA wrestling there had not been one reported death due to weight cutting. Hundreds of hospitilizations, permanent damage but never a death. Why 3 in 18 days? I've spoken to people in each of the 3 programs (Michigan, Campbell Univ., and Wisconsin-LaCrosee) and each said the athletes were using creatine to gain more energy during the weight cutting process. Only one had creatine tested during the autopsy and his level was extremely elevated. Just some info on the importance of water intake during the use of creatine.

Finally, another side effect that is being seen now is when you initially come off the supplement. As you load the body with creatine above its natural levels, your body begins to slow its own production of creatine. Thus when you stop using the supplement, it takes a little bit for the body to start full production of creatine. No one knows if very long term use of creatine will have permanent effects on the body's CP production. Its use as a supplement has simply not been around long enough to get reliable longitudinal studies as to its long term effect.

This is not to dissuade the use of creatine, but no one thought steroids would have long term effects when their use first became popular in the 60's. And we know now what they cause.

BTW, my profession is sports medicine/ athletic trainer as well as a degree in exercise physiology, so I've dealt with alot of this in the past!

AikaImmortal

I use DHEA in lieu of creatine, would you reccomend that?

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Gygax

From personal experience, I've run into very few athletes who have used DHEA regularly. At least few who told me they were. One concern I'd have right off the bat is if you are competing where a drug testing can take place, increased DHEA levels can lead to increased testosterone levels, something that would set off a red flag as a possible HGH user.

DHEA has been purported to be the anti aging drug for years, as its a natural occurring hormone. But the facts remain that there is very little peer reviewed and scientifically sound research to support any of the claims of the DHEA supporters. Whenever one of the suppliers claims backup research, they fail to produce independent backup. Its similar to the supplements now claiming to increase your height, like this site. Though they allude to studies and research backing up their claims, they never actually show any of these studies, instead promising height growth of 10-25% in 6 months!!! In my field, its all about scientifically based research, and the vast majority of supplements have little to no research to back up their claims.

We also know very little about the long term effects of synthetic DHEA supplementation. This is not to dissuade anyone from its use, its more that we know very little about the synthetic hormone at this point.

I will also openly admit that I'm not a big fan of supplements in general, preferring my athletes (and myself) to perform at their best through good nutrition and proper training. Just my opinion and I completely understand the draw of suppementation.

AikaImmortal

Thanks for the advice. I usually use it when I start a new regimen and I feel like its 'too much' for the first few days.. more of a psychological thing than anything you could say!

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Gygax

I couldn't have said it any better. The very best part of supplements is the psycholgical effects they have. If you believe something is going to help, it will. The mind is an awful powerful thing, especially the power of positive thinking.

Its the same with all the sports rubs/creams out there. All they really do is irritate the skin, causing an increased blood flow and thus a warming feeling. Does it actually penetrate deeply to loosen muscles? Absolutely not. But if it feels good and you feel something going on using it, it will work.

lwbfl

And the long term effects of steroids would be what?

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AikaImmortal

well, one is early andropause. body gets used to a higher level of test and your natural production slows down and therefore when you are off it continues to produce at lower levels from what i understand.

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Gygax

Ahhhh, the age old question. And a good one at that.

The fact of the matter is there is no factual data that shows the long term effects of anabolic steroid use. All of it is anecdotal. There is nothing that can connect steroid use to many of the problems, though common sense says there has to be a connection. Long term steroid abusers have significantly higher incidence rates of kidney failure, heart disease, strokes, cancer, tumors, etc. The suicide rates for long term abusers is through the roof, including well after they stop using. Like I said, they cannot make the connection. But the stats are pretty hard to ignore IMO.

Its been impossible to study the long term effects because longitudinal studies of drugs that are illegal to the general public are virtually impossible to complete.

lwbfl

But, steroids are only illegal in a few countries so that can't be the reason. The Olympic committee is the reason that they are illegal here. The medical profession could not come up with a reason to deem them a danger and get them banned. I did my college papers on steroids, so I've studied them allot. Not defending the illegal use, just discussing facts.

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Gygax

I hear what you are saying. They are legal in some countries and legal here in the US with the proper prescription. But no respectable academia institution in the world would be willing to fund longitudinal studies and find the proper amount of "guinea pigs" knowing that based on the anecdotal evidence, they could likely be giving subjects life threatening health concerns. Even if you were being paid and agreed to deal with the after effects with no liabilty, we all know a good lawyer could scrap that release pretty easily in court and hold the researchers liable for any damage done.

So if we cannot properly test for the long term effects, it becomes very hard to make a complete correlation between steroids and these adverse health effects. But not impossible and it may soon happen, especially with the anabolics being in the spotlight so much. For years, though the "experts" knew there was a connection between say, cigarette smoking and cancer, it was very difficult to prove. Thus you could not restrict cigarette smoking and the tobacco companies made sure of it. Finally as solid research emerged connecting the two, it became much easier to regulate it and the tobaccco could do nothing but sit and watch.

And I don't mind discussing this with you. I am by no means an expert and with your reseacrh, you're likely far ahead of me in the game. If someone feels the need to take them, I have no problem with that. Its personal choice at this point. I just think too many factors point to that decision being a poor choice IMO. But that's why they call it a choice!

SmashingMachine

Steroids are nothing more than an overdose of your body's own horomones, and using them makes your body lazy so it doesn't produce as much on it's own. Roids are bad news all the way around; except for medical necessity...and even then they have serious side effects...i.e. Osteoporosis for example. My lifting partner, in college, was the main Bull in the gym, and I was third in line. It drove the roider's nuts that we were as big and as strong or stronger and we were drug free. Nobody needs to juice, they just need to train harder.

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Hbs6

yeah training hard helps, but if someone has nutrition nailed down and their lifting nailed down and then they do a proper cycle, good god look out. I watched a guy go from being a big powerlifter to looking like a comic book super hero in a few months. I mean scary big it was rediculous.

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Crashsti

some people in the medical arena view extreme bodybuilding as a sickness, similar to anorexia and bulimia. while yes, those are eating disorders they are also the result of a distorted self image. anyone who feels they need to look like a comic book character through the usage of steroids has some real issues.

Hbs6

lol, i didnt say i wanted to look that way. I was just stating how chemicals really do make unfair playing field.

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SmashingMachine

Roids are nothing but bad news. I question the safety even of the legal spin off steroids, like D-Bol and the like. Hard work, good diet and safe supplements will get you where you need to be; without any harmful side effects.

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