subgenius

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Gooner FTW!

BJ Penn stole my SHOE!!!

Gygax

Completely wrong. The UFC went to the rounds system and other rule changes in order to gain sanctioning from the state athletic commissions. Sanctioning was the first goal Zuffa had when they bought the UFC from SEG. It had nothing to do with changing the rules to suit the fans.

While Pride has requested an October date at the Thomas & Mack Center in Vegas, there are still a few huge obstacles to overcome. The Nevada State Athletic Commission utilizes the Unified Rules for MMA, as designed by the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board in 2001. These rules do not allow knees and kicks to the head. They require that the rounds be limited to 5 minutes in length. Both these rules are against Pride's ruleset. Pride lobbied hard to hold the first show in California, but when the CSAC adopted the Unified Rules, it killed Pride's chances. By original rule, MMA fights had to be held in a cage, but that has since been amended.

BTW, Vitor will be fighting vs. Alistair Overeem at the Strikeforce show in San Jose on Friday, June 9, 2006.

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Marktown

I stand corrected.

Is Belfort fighting Overeem?? I thought someone said he was fighting Randleman.

Marko

Mulla

He was due to fight Randleman, but Kevin had to pull out due to an infection caused by shoulder surgery so now Alistair Overeem is his replacement.

mikedifr

Not true. First off, lets forget for a minute that this is a matter of opinion and no one can really say which is better. They are two different products, one in a cage, one in a ring. The matches are structured differently as far as rounds go. There are different rules in each. They are directed at two different audiences. Japan has years and years of history in martial arts and fans who respect guys just for getting in the ring, even if they do lose. Take a look at how big Football is in the US, and that is martial arts in Japan. UFC is in the US where martial arts is still relatively young and does not yet appeal to the masses. US is still all about corrupt boxing. Also, due to the different markets and audiences, Pride pays a $^&t load more money to its fighters because it can. UFC, while it may be able to now, was not able to up until recently. With all these other orgs picking up big fighters, lets see what the UFC does.

They cant necessarily be compared other then the fact that they are both MMA organizations.

Most of the arguments I have ever heard are that Pride has the best fighters in the world. Well, based on what I explained above with the money, audience, etc. they should have all the big name fighters, but they dont. Plus, I dont think you can say they have the better fighters until you have a UFC card and pit the champions from each weight class against each other. You also would then need to come to some sort of agreement of which rules and logistics you are fighting under. Yes, I hear everyone brag about how Jackson beat Liddell. Years ago if I might add. This was before Liddell became the big star he is. Silva is Pride's golden boy at 205. How come no one mentions that Tito and Belfort both beat Silva in the UFC? I think Matt Hughes beats anyone at 170 in Pride and although I will agree he hasnt fought the toughest competition yet, I have full faith in the athleticism and determination of Rich Franklin that he will challenge anyone, anytime. UFC got rid of the light weights for a while and are just starting that up again now so you cant compare those. I will give you that Pride has more star heavyweights but that is about it.

I give a slight edge to UFC in my favorite, and that is only because Pride appears to have some "fishy" matches sometimes. Like why do we need to see Fedor against some big fat sumo wrestler that has absolutely no shot of beating him??? Pride is all about the show sometimes and the acceptance of professional wrestling over in Japan more then the US leads to some worked matches. Now I am sure it has happened in the UFC at some point, but if it has it is a lot less obvious.

I can go on and on and write a book but then no one will read my post.

The only fact here is this:

Neither one is better. UFC is at the top of the organizations in a cage, Pride is at the top of the organizations in a ring. They are both exciting at times, and both extremely boring at times. Nothing more, nothing less.

SeikanJudanski

I agree with the rounds and the cage, but the difference in fighting is very narrow. You can´t stomp in the UFC, and you can´t use elbows to the face in Pride, other than that, it´s still MMA.

They are both directed to MMA fans, sadly in the US, the people want to see knock-outs, and less Submissions and the art of MMA. Nevertheless, it´s not going to change the outcome of the fight, if the ground is being quite and observant like in Japan ( and the rest of the world) or like in the States, where people are more hyped up and want to see spectacular ko´s.

What you are mentioning is in fact a negative for the UFC, if they can indeed pick up better fighters, then it would be good for them, but that is not happening yet.

They can be compared based on the talent of the fighters also, infact that is the only reason I would compare them, it´s still about fighting, and the fighters make the organization.

HW Division: Fedor Emelianenko, Big Nog , Mirko Crocop , Josh Barnett , Mark Hunt , Aleksander Emelianenko, Hidehiko Yoshida, Fabricio Werdum, Mark Coleman.. just to name a few. Each of these fighters could clean out the UFC HW division. You have to admit that they DO have the big name fighters in the HW division.

205 Pounds, which is the so called Middleweight Division in Pride, and Light-Heavyweight division in the UFC: Wanderlei Silva , Mauricio Rua, Ricardo Arona, Antonio Rogerio Nogueira, Alistair Overeem, Vitor Belfort are these names not big enough? I give credit to the UFC for having Chuck and Babalu, Tito, and Griffin, but I think each one can be beaten by the gentlemen I mentioned above, with the exception of Overeem, who got dominated by Chuck in Pride.

At 185-Pounds,I would say it´s preety much even, with UFC having the likes of Franklin, Horn, or Marquardt. Pride has Henderson, Filho, Baroni, Bustamante. However there are a few other good fighters in this division on both sides.

170-Pounds, is a division which UFC owns, but since Pride doesn´t have this weight class, the fighters at 170 in the UFC would either have to step up or step down. But I don´t see Hughes fighting Henderson at 185 and I don´t see Henderson stepping down to 170, for example. UFC has this division simply because there is no 170 pound class in Pride. Would the fighters in that weight class do good stepping up to 185? Would they perfom well stepping down to 160? I don´t see it happening, so there is no comparison here.

160-150 pounds class: This division is similar to the situation above with the UFC. This division is completely owned by Pride fighters. Takanori Gomi, Hayato "Mach" Sakurai, Joachim Hansen, Norifumi Yamamoto, Tatsuya Kawajiri, Marcus Aurelio, Genki Sudo, Yves Edwards , Jens Pulver.

Now please read those names I posted, and tell me they are not big names. Actually it´s ridiculous to say that Pride doesn´t have big name fighters. It´s clear that everybody who has a name in MMA is fighting in Pride, with the exception of the fighters like Liddell, Hughes, Franklin or GSP.

Arlovski and Sylvia are also very good fighters, but their names are for sure not bigger than Fedor, CroCop or Nog.


Dana would never do that, and he knows why.


At the end of the day, it´s still fighting.. let´s not split hairs, it´s very easy, either you allow fighters to stomp and use elbows, or you don´t allow both, then you can get it on. It would be kinda childish to rate the fighters based on rules.

I´m not one of the people that brags about it, but it DID happen my friend, and Chuck was a star back then already. He had wins over Randleman, Mezger, Sobral and Belfort.. two months after Jackson he beat Tito. Who can say he wasn´t a good fighter back then? People need to give Quinton the respect he deserves.


It´s well known that he lost to Tito and Belfort, but similar to your analogy with Liddell, Silva wasn´t a star fighting in the UFC, the fight against Tito was 6 years ago, since then he has beaten some of the best fighters in the world at 205 in Pride. Plus you are forgetting all the other fighters, the 205 division is stacked in Pride.


There is no 170 division, he would have to step up and fight Henderson at 185, or go down to 160 and fight Gomi, nevertheless Hughes is a great fighter, fighters like Hughes are what make me watch UFC.

Me too.. I love Franklin.


Please read the names at HW and at 205 again. Then look at the World Ratings. 8 out of 10 it´s Pride fighters who are ranked highest in those two divisions.

Mh.. there are a few people who think a couple of early Pride fights were fixed, but ignore about 50 event since then, which have blown the minds and expectations of MMA fans around the world. If you want to go that way, I could talk about ridiculous matches in the early UFC years too.

Zulu is a BJJ fighter, not Sumo. Second, Pride just wanted to throw a cookie at it´s fans and let them see Fedor fight before his hand surgery. That fight had absolutely not value, except to see Fedor fight one more time, before his long break. Please don´t judge Pride based on ONE fight. There are enough mismatches in the UFC as well. Did you want to see Sean Cannon get slaughtered? Well I didn´t. There are always a few bad fights here and there.


Please name these "worked" matches, and give detailed evidence. Don´t bother posting if you can´t think of more than 5 from the 100´s of matches we have seen. And the fact that you say it has happened in the UFC, is no help, less obvious is not less worked.

I would... I love long posts, at least the people who write long posts, take time to speak about a subject they must obviously love.

The only fact here is this:

Now you have said the truth, although I find UFC PPV´s almost always boring with the exception of a few fights here and there. I can´t say that for Pride, but this is my own opinion and not a "fact".

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subgenius

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Gooner FTW!

BJ Penn stole my SHOE!!!

SeikanJudanski

What am I wrong about? There are only 4 divisons in Pride. HW, Middleweight, Welter and light. Be more precise.

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SeikanJudanski

Funaki is a PAncraese legend man. So what if he was a pro wrestler. Not to mention that since this a Pride thread, and he never fought in Pride, I don´t know what you are getting at. Takada was also a pro-wrestler. SO?

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subgenius

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Gooner FTW!

BJ Penn stole my SHOE!!!

SeikanJudanski

Who said the they ARE ONLY185 for example? Fact is, he would still have to fight the Welterweights which is Henderson and Co. That´s all I said.

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subgenius

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Gooner FTW!

BJ Penn stole my SHOE!!!

SeikanJudanski

Yes, but what does Funaki have to do with Pride?

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subgenius

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Gooner FTW!

BJ Penn stole my SHOE!!!

SeikanJudanski

In weight yes.. read my posts right. If a fighter has to go from 185 to 170.. it´s still stepping down in WEIGHT. I didn´t say in class.


And what does Funaki have to do with Pride?

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Gygax

For the most part I agree with SK. Pride has a huge advantage in the Heavyweights, a much deeper Lt. Heavyweight class, equal Middleweights, and better lightweights. They have the better talent overall pretty handily. But (you knew that was coming, lol)...

But while that is true, lets be realistic about the gimmick fights. You make it sound like that was the only gimmick fight in Pride. The UFC blew it by signing Sean Gannon, but did the fight make the live broadcast? Have we seen him since that debacle in the UFC? I do