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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouth For War
I think to save hockey they should really remove the fighting. It slows down the game so much and is very unnecessary IMO.
Hockey doesn't need to be "saved". Fighting is a part of the sport, it allows players to settle beef on the ice like men and I don't think that will ever change.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouth For War
I think to save hockey they should really remove the fighting. It slows down the game so much and is very unnecessary IMO.
No... If you look Montreal Canadian this year. They don't have any fighter. Put maybe one fight every 15 games and they fight for the number one spot. If they remove fight from hockey. You will see so much more cheap shot. Me, I will not listen to that, because I love to see a good fight with Laraque .
The key to save hockey. Sign player with hearts and want to play. Not only for the contract.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giguer
No... If you look Montreal Canadian this year. They don't have any fighter. Put maybe one fight every 15 games and they fight for the number one spot. If they remove fight from hockey. You will see so much more cheap shot. Me, I will not listen to that, because I love to see a good fight with Laraque .
The key to save hockey. Sign player with hearts and want to play. Not only for the contract.
So the solution to a cheap shot is to fight someone.....we all know what happened when Bertuzzi tried to fight the guy who cheap shotted Naslund. I just can't justify how fighting is allowed in hockey. How about we let fighting in Football (both American and European) or even Basketball, why? because it just doesn't belong. fighting belongs in MMA and Boxing
oh and i do agree with you Giguer that they should sign players with heart and want to play, as soon as some players (not all) get the big contracts they stop trying. IMO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giguer
No... If you look Montreal Canadian this year. They don't have any fighter. Put maybe one fight every 15 games and they fight for the number one spot. If they remove fight from hockey. You will see so much more cheap shot. Me, I will not listen to that, because I love to see a good fight with Laraque .
The key to save hockey. Sign player with hearts and want to play. Not only for the contract.
I agree, and I don't think hockey would be the same without fighting. I also agree on the Laraque part.(Suprisingly enough he actually scored a goal the other day, it was like his 4th of the year. )
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouth For War
So the solution to a cheap shot is to fight someone.....we all know what happened when Bertuzzi tried to fight the guy who cheap shotted Naslund. I just can't justify how fighting is allowed in hockey. How about we let fighting in Football (both American and European) or even Basketball, why? because it just doesn't belong. fighting belongs in MMA and Boxing
oh and i do agree with you Giguer that they should sign players with heart and want to play, as soon as some players (not all) get the big contracts they stop trying. IMO
Fighting has been part of hockey since the early days. Taking fighting away from hockey is a moot point as most of the enforcer role as stictly a fighter/checker has left the game when compared to the 1970s-1980s.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouth For War
So the solution to a cheap shot is to fight someone.....we all know what happened when Bertuzzi tried to fight the guy who cheap shotted Naslund. I just can't justify how fighting is allowed in hockey. How about we let fighting in Football (both American and European) or even Basketball, why? because it just doesn't belong. fighting belongs in MMA and Boxing
oh and i do agree with you Giguer that they should sign players with heart and want to play, as soon as some players (not all) get the big contracts they stop trying. IMO
Getting rid of fighting in hockey is a horrible idea and will never happen. It's part of the sport and always has been.
As far as the Bertuzzi situation ..... fighting had absolutely nothing to do with what Bert did. Steve Moore had already fought that game , and Bert just gave him a cheap shot , nothing more. Both coaches were as much to blame. Neither Bertuzzi or Moore should have been on the ice at that point. The score was 9-2 for Colorado with like 2 minutes left. No reason for a goon and a star player to be out there.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giguer
No... If you look Montreal Canadian this year. They don't have any fighter. Put maybe one fight every 15 games and they fight for the number one spot. If they remove fight from hockey. You will see so much more cheap shot. Me, I will not listen to that, because I love to see a good fight with Laraque .
The key to save hockey. Sign player with hearts and want to play. Not only for the contract.
I agree if they took fighting out of hockey it wouldnt be the same. The one thing I dont agree with is Laraque having a good fight most of his fights are very boring. Personally I like Shawn Thornton always has a great fight even when he loses, he just loves throwing bombs.
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i'm not trying to get under anyones skin here, its just my biased opinion on this topic haha. i've had hockey fights before , but for me it was just a waste of time.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouth For War
So the solution to a cheap shot is to fight someone.....we all know what happened when Bertuzzi tried to fight the guy who cheap shotted Naslund. I just can't justify how fighting is allowed in hockey. How about we let fighting in Football (both American and European) or even Basketball, why? because it just doesn't belong. fighting belongs in MMA and Boxing
oh and i do agree with you Giguer that they should sign players with heart and want to play, as soon as some players (not all) get the big contracts they stop trying. IMO
Did you ever play in hockey with fight and contact. And after play with contact and no fight. The game is so different and they have so many cheap shot.
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This is a good topic...
I grew up playing Hockey and even played at UVM before I started skiing pro moguls. I like the comment that " Hockey doesn't need to be saved " That's true, Hockey fans will always watch, and hockey fans usually have or raise young Hockey fans. It is kind of a generation to generation thing. The fighting will never be " taken out " it IS part of the sport. If you never played real Hockey you will never understand this.
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Hmmm, interesting topic. I think I have some things I could add...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouth For War
I think to save hockey they should really remove the fighting. It slows down the game so much and is very unnecessary IMO.
Slows down the game? How many fights are there per game that the game slows down so much? Try 0.54 per game this year. That's basically one fight every two games. Does that really slow down the game? The stats of fights per game are 0.64 in '03-'04 (pre-strike), 0.38 in '05-'06, and 0.40 last year. In fact, only 38% of the games played this year featured a fight. Can fighting really be slowing the game down that much?
The one time the stands are guaranteed to be rocking is when two players drop the gloves. If the home team is down by 4 goals with five minutes to go, a goal by either team will be barely noticed in the stands. But a fight will make everyone stand up to watch. The excitement in the arena is palpable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouth For War
So the solution to a cheap shot is to fight someone.....we all know what happened when Bertuzzi tried to fight the guy who cheap shotted Naslund. I just can't justify how fighting is allowed in hockey.
First off, Steve Moore was not even penalized for his hit on Naslund. It was borderline cheap at best. Bertuzzi was an idiot for taking a premeditated run at Moore 3 weeks later and assaulting him. BTW, Moore fought Matt Cooke earlier that fateful night, so Moore had already been paidback for the hit.
Back on topic. You missed the point on the cheap shot comment. Having fighting still in the game helps prevent a lot of the cheap shots, especially the stick work. When guy knows he may have to answer to a cheap shot by facing a guy, he is less likely to use the stick to begin with. Watch many of the European leagues and there is a much higher incidence of crosschecking and high sticking. You will even see the occasional stick fight, something that is extremely rare in the North American game.
The anti-fighting faction of hockey will say to look at Olympic hockey as an example of why fighting is not needed. They fail to note that those are the very best 125 players in the world playing on a surface that is almost 20% bigger than regulation NHL rinks. More space with better skilled hockey. So the Olympic excuse is defeated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouth For War
How about we let fighting in Football (both American and European) or even Basketball, why? because it just doesn't belong. fighting belongs in MMA and Boxing
As many have already pointed out, fighting was never a part of football, soccer, or basketball, so why should it be allowed now? Hockey has a long history and fighting has always been a part of it.
You want to fix hockey? Its going to take some radical changes. First off, some of the teams need to be eliminated. Both Florida teams have brutal attendance, this despite the Panthers having won a Stanley Cup. Nashville or Atlanta? In a way, paring down the league and eliminating roster spots will reduce the opportunities for enforcers to remain in the NHL anyway. If you can't truly play the game at a high level, you won't be on a roster. The amount of true enforcers in the league is way down anyway compared to the '80-'90s as Aika pointed out. Increasing the overall skill level by eliminating some of the teams would further enhance the league.
Some of the recent changes have helped the game, even at the cost of pissing off hockey purists. The elimination of the red line (no more 2 line pass violations) has led to more breakaways. The 4 on 4 OT is great. And as much as its against pure hockey, the shootout has added excitement, especially to the live experience.
What I truly believe the NHL needs is a new dynamic leader. Not on the ice, but in the league offices. Gary Bettman has simply not accomplished enough in his long tenure as commissioner. He was the leader through a lockout, one that saw an entire season cancelled. He's negotiated some terrible TV deals, such as the current national US contract with tiny Versus. He is basically a terrible figurehead. Before his current position, he never held a post in hockey. He was a VP in the NBA before taking over the NHL. Even his persona is very poor for the commissioner of a major sports league. He comes off whiny often and just is not a true leader. Its simply time for a change and it has to start at the top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouth For War
i'm not trying to get under anyones skin here, its just my biased opinion on this topic haha.
No worries about getting under anyone's skin. Its just a friendly debate!
BTW, did I mention that I'm an Admin of hockeyfights.com? With over 500 hours of hockey fights now on DVD!?! LOL!
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Originally Posted by Gygax
Hmmm, interesting topic. I think I have some things I could add...
Slows down the game? How many fights are there per game that the game slows down so much? Try 0.54 per game this year. That's basically one fight every two games. Does that really slow down the game? The stats of fights per game are 0.64 in '03-'04 (pre-strike), 0.38 in '05-'06, and 0.40 last year. In fact, only 38% of the games played this year featured a fight. Can fighting really be slowing the game down that much?
The one time the stands are guaranteed to be rocking is when two players drop the gloves. If the home team is down by 4 goals with five minutes to go, a goal by either team will be barely noticed in the stands. But a fight will make everyone stand up to watch. The excitement in the arena is palpable.
First off, Steve Moore was not even penalized for his hit on Naslund. It was borderline cheap at best. Bertuzzi was an idiot for taking a premeditated run at Moore 3 weeks later and assaulting him. BTW, Moore fought Matt Cooke earlier that fateful night, so Moore had already been paidback for the hit.
Back on topic. You missed the point on the cheap shot comment. Having fighting still in the game helps prevent a lot of the cheap shots, especially the stick work. When guy knows he may have to answer to a cheap shot by facing a guy, he is less likely to use the stick to begin with. Watch many of the European leagues and there is a much higher incidence of crosschecking and high sticking. You will even see the occasional stick fight, something that is extremely rare in the North American game.
The anti-fighting faction of hockey will say to look at Olympic hockey as an example of why fighting is not needed. They fail to note that those are the very best 125 players in the world playing on a surface that is almost 20% bigger than regulation NHL rinks. More space with better skilled hockey. So the Olympic excuse is defeated.
As many have already pointed out, fighting was never a part of football, soccer, or basketball, so why should it be allowed now? Hockey has a long history and fighting has always been a part of it.
You want to fix hockey? Its going to take some radical changes. First off, some of the teams need to be eliminated. Both Florida teams have brutal attendance, this despite the Panthers having won a Stanley Cup. Nashville or Atlanta? In a way, paring down the league and eliminating roster spots will reduce the opportunities for enforcers to remain in the NHL anyway. If you can't truly play the game at a high level, you won't be on a roster. The amount of true enforcers in the league is way down anyway compared to the '80-'90s as Aika pointed out. Increasing the overall skill level by eliminating some of the teams would further enhance the league.
Some of the recent changes have helped the game, even at the cost of pissing off hockey purists. The elimination of the red line (no more 2 line pass violations) has led to more breakaways. The 4 on 4 OT is great. And as much as its against pure hockey, the shootout has added excitement, especially to the live experience.
What I truly believe the NHL needs is a new dynamic leader. Not on the ice, but in the league offices. Gary Bettman has simply not accomplished enough in his long tenure as commissioner. He was the leader through a lockout, one that saw an entire season cancelled. He's negotiated some terrible TV deals, such as the current national US contract with tiny Versus. He is basically a terrible figurehead. Before his current position, he never held a post in hockey. He was a VP in the NBA before taking over the NHL. Even his persona is very poor for the commissioner of a major sports league. He comes off whiny often and just is not a true leader. Its simply time for a change and it has to start at the top.
No worries about getting under anyone's skin. Its just a friendly debate!
BTW, did I mention that I'm an Admin of hockeyfights.com? With over 500 hours of hockey fights now on DVD!?! LOL!
You rule, great, fantastic post ! I'm with you, way too many expansion teams. I was confused when that was happening... BTW, I love hockeyfights.com...
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Man i just got owned by Gygax lol, ya your points are very very valid, i probably am just hating too hard on hockey. I used to love the game and play it, but after the lockout i lost all interest and started to really dislike the sport as a whole, thats why i mentioned my biased opinion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouth For War
Man i just got owned by Gygax lol, ya your points are very very valid, i probably am just hating too hard on hockey. I used to love the game and play it, but after the lockout i lost all interest and started to really dislike the sport as a whole, thats why i mentioned my biased opinion
You're biased? Like I'm not, with what I helped create at HF.com? LOL, you are a lot less biased regarding fighting in hockey than I ever would be! Your opinion is likely much more objective.
I was always a big fan of MMA since the earliest shows. But it was the lockout that made me really turn my focus away from hockey and onto MMA. Thus, the NHL lockout is really responsible for me finding FightForum! I'm still not nearly back to watching the NHL the way I used to!
Here's a story. Last year, we used to put up every NHL fight the night it happened over on YouTube. We were the 3rd most popular channel in terms of hits on YouTube. Our clips were viewed about 10x as often as the NHL's specific YouTube channel. The NHL marketing department loved us and let us know that in a bunch of emails. After all, we were basically giving them free advertising. Suddenly, Bettman gets wind of it. His league lawyers contact us on his behalf and basically asks for a piece of the pie! WTH, we were not profiting off it. It was simply an extension of our website. But when we weren't willing to pay up, he drops the copyright threat. That's fine with us. We stopped posting the vids, and they lose all that free advertising. And the vids are still available every night in our forums. But that really further pissed off a lot of hardcore fans.
How to save hockey
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