Official GSP vs. Serra thread ......

[hambone]

Originally Posted by FatCatMC

Serra's game is submissions, not GnP. Last time I checked, Serra didn't get caught in a submission. Not like Serra has a bunch of submissions to his name anyway, his only chance to win this fight was on the feet.

Subs r on the ground. fight took place on ground. part of Jiu Jitsu is retaining guard and defending from the bottom. therefore GSP beat him at his own game, ground work, not necessarily Jiu Jitsu though.

[FatCatMC]

Originally Posted by hambone

Subs r on the ground. fight took place on ground. part of Jiu Jitsu is retaining guard and defending from the bottom. therefore GSP beat him at his own game, ground work, not necessarily Jiu Jitsu though.

But nowhere in BJJ do you have to defend against strikes. If it wasn't for his BJJ, Serra would have been finished early in the 1st.

[kev0]

Originally Posted by Drewplata

Didn't it look like Serra verbally tapped? Looked like he said something to the ref.

I'm also wondering if there mighta been a verbal tap. Anyone know for sure?

[hambone]

Watch some old Gracie videos, before the UFC, and tell me they're not striking on the ground. Go to youtube and search Jiu Jitsu vs Gung Fu. Serra trained under Renzo Gracie. I have all the respect for Serra in the world but he got owned on the ground.

[jxl301]

Originally Posted by FatCatMC

But nowhere in BJJ do you have to defend against strikes. If it wasn't for his BJJ, Serra would have been finished early in the 1st.

The philosophy of Jiu Jitsu is that you should be able to defend yourself against any style of attack, in any situation, choosing a response that suits the circumstances, without having to rely on strength and power.

Justin Jiu Jitsu - private and corporate lessons for adults

Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu teaches how to fight effectively on the ground. Since most situations end up on the ground, it is best to know how to handle yourself there. On the ground, you will learn how to apply chokes and jointlocks, and effectively strike and defend against strikes. Also, the vast array of throws, takedowns, and defenses from throws and takedowns, make controlling the situation on your feet effective.

Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu Q&A

[HaVoK]

Just like I told everyone in the chat last night....GSP by TKO in the 2nd round.....thanks

[FatCatMC]

Originally Posted by jxl301

The philosophy of Jiu Jitsu is that you should be able to defend yourself against any style of attack, in any situation, choosing a response that suits the circumstances, without having to rely on strength and power.

Justin Jiu Jitsu - private and corporate lessons for adults

Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu teaches how to fight effectively on the ground. Since most situations end up on the ground, it is best to know how to handle yourself there. On the ground, you will learn how to apply chokes and jointlocks, and effectively strike and defend against strikes. Also, the vast array of throws, takedowns, and defenses from throws and takedowns, make controlling the situation on your feet effective.

Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu Q&A

Bottom line is, GSP beat Serra in the conditioning game. I just re watched the fight and Serra was doing just fine by taking minimal damage and reestablishing guard in the first round against a bigger, stronger, more athletic opponent. It wasn't until the 2nd round that Serra got completely tooled.

The principles you have linked here apply to self defense and practical apllication of BJJ, whereas Serra's real "game" is submission grappling where he has no strikes to defend against.

GSP dominated no doubt, and it shouldn't be a surprise. He did what he was supposed to do the first time.

[Oberfuhrer42]

Well I guess we saw what we have never seen before, as GSP said. Well at least "I" have never seen it. a stoppage due to brutal knees to the liver and spleen while the down opponent is simulataneously yelling "I'm Done!"

this is one of the first GSP fights I wasn't nervous for, I thought i would be, but not a bit, as I knew GSP would dominate him in his own game....oh well this was the ONLY fight i called correctly last night.

[LABJJ]

Does anyone else think that Serra needs to cut down to 155 were his skill's and size would probably suit him better. It seems that he is just too undersized compared to the competition. He would probably do pretty good at that weight. GSP is really strong and he has showed it his last two fights . I thought after the fight both guys were showed a lot of class, but especially GSP and the crowd. Top Notch.

[Drewplata]

Originally Posted by LABJJ

Does anyone else think that Serra needs to cut down to 155 were his skill's and size would probably suit him better. It seems that he is just too undersized compared to the competition. He would probably do pretty good at that weight. GSP is really strong and he has showed it his last two fights . I thought after the fight both guys were showed a lot of class, but especially GSP and the crowd. Top Notch.

Serra is a natural LW and has fought at that weight in the UFC. Watch for him to lose to Hughes, move down to LW, lose 2 fights there, then be banished from the UFC. I think he only fought WW to get on TUF.

[Daniel]

I'm surprised at how some of you are reacting to this fight. GSP proved that the first fight was a fluke? I thought this second fight proved the exact opposite: That the first fight most definitely was NOT a fluke!

Consider:

-Serra was able to survive the first round with GSP
-Serra kept GSP working on the ground and managed to squirm out of trouble again and again until the unlikely and devastating knees
-Serra snuffed a takedown. Big deal? Maybe not. But it was impressive considering GSP's wrestling
-Serra kept in control during the stand up and GSP wanted none of it. Nothing really happened on the feet, but Serra's power was there along with his will to throw it, and he came close a few times


Conclusion? GSP won this fight because he had a better strategy this time around, which was to take Serra down. Had he stood, the fight could have went the same route as the last fight.

What I conclude, anyway, from watching this fight, is that the first fight was no fluke. GSP lost because he decided to stand with Serra and that was a bad strategy.






ALSO:

Serra gassed? I don't think so. Note: I said THINK. I'm suggesting Serra intentionally dropped his hands. When has Serra ever gassed in a fight? Not since fighting Karo. And why would his cardio be anything but the best right now? And isn't it typical of Serra to have his hands low, or at least one of them? And doesn't it make sense that he would want to encourage GSP to come in on him so he could maybe catch him with a bomb again?

I really doubt Serra gassed.


But of course: Congrats to GSP, the better man. Who by the way was on a whole 'nother level of fitness. That guy is ripped. Reminds me of some sort of savage animal out of a Jack London novel. Who is going to touch this guy?

[subgenius]

Serra-GSP 1 = Serra dominated completely

Serra-GSP 2 = GSP dominated completely

Did I miss something?

The first fight was NOT a fluke. GSP had been completely owned by Matt Serra. The ONLY reason people keep saying it was a fluke was because Serra was "supposed to lose" that fight. Sorry GSP, but "I was not impressed with your performance." I love throwing those words back in his face. It took two rounds for GSP to do to Serra what Serra did to GSP in one round.

Compare all you like, but the bottom line is that these two fighters are now 1-1 against each other. Each took a title belt from the other guy in DOMINANT style. IMO, they are now even. Only a rubber match will decide who really is the better fighter.

[Drewplata]

Daniel-

Ummm... what? Why, all of a sudden, are we calling a guy "scared" or afraid of his opponent's power when he takes him down at will and absolutely dominates him. He moved from position to position, and the only thing Serra could do was try, and fail to retain guard. Serra was completely out-classed. What gets a fighter no credit is "coming close" to landing a strike. If you don't land a strike, you have no power. Period. And how many take-downs did he stuff? Stuffing one take-down out of many does not mean that Serra had any advantage in wrestling. When they were on the ground, Serra was punished and never got even close to a submission and could not stop GSP from passing to half guard over and over; he was repeatedly punished for his "ground game".
Also, no chance Serra was dropping his hands on purpose. You think he didn't see what GSP did to Hughes? The result of the 1st fight had nothing to do with strategy- no strategy ever had time to develop. The 1 thing this fight proved is that the 1st fight was a fluke; Serra cannot hold GSP's jock strap. I think you need to go back and watch the fight again, but this time with an open mind, and maybe 2 open eyes.

[Saskabush]

Well that was sweet. I'm not about to get into a pissing match but we sure saw who the better fighter was tonight. I hate to say the first fight was a "fluke", let me grab a thesaurus for another word. GSP is going to run through Fitch too imo, his style matches up well. I think GSP is going to be champ for a long time.

Those may have been the best fans I have seen at a North American event. Did you guys hear them chanting "Knees"! during the Lutter/Franklin fight? Hell they even booed Kalib, a Canadian, who was the only fighter worthy of receiving boos. Classy crowd, good card. Almost makes up for the Habs dropping game 6 last night.

[subgenius]

Saying that the first fight was a fluke is plain and simply retarded. You guys seem to forget that GSP makes EVERYBODY look like an amateur. In Serra-GSP 1, it was Serra that made GSP look like the amateur.

[Mouth For War]

There is no such thing as a fluke, there is such a thing called an off night. GSP had one in the first match and Serra looked like he had one last night. I don't think there is any difference in domination someone and finishing it in the first round, and dominating someone and finishing it in the second. Its still a win.

[ChipShank]

I totally agree that there was no "fluke" to the first fight. Serra trains as a fighter and in the fight he executed what he practices in training. Plain and simple. No big deal. Yeah GSP seemed off & tentative, but he did get in there and paid for it.

That said...I'm at a loss as to how this time out GSP is/was called "Gun Shy" for employing a strategy that perfectly suits his skills, to control and beat Serra for 9:45? WTF is that supposed to mean? The dude has developed some of the most explosive takedowns and perhaps the best aggresive ground control in the UFC right now and he can't use them, because instead he's supposed to stand and bang like a retarded Pete Sell clone?
Georges didn't stall, LnP, hesitate, shy away or run at any point that I saw...he took it to Serra from the opening seconds and ground him down until he looked ready to quit. He overpowered him at every turn and pretty much overwhelmed him and ground him down until he was shot.
I'm not saying he gave up there at the end..."Serra's don't tap" remember...but down on your knees with your face in the mat and taking unanswered, undefended shots to the ribs from someone like St Pierre, is not "Intelligently Defending Yourself". Serra had claimed numerous times in the last year, that no one had ever beaten him down like he did to Georges....From the look on his face in between rounds and after the fight...I'd say that he can't legitly claim that anymore.
How can dominating and controlling a dude to that degree, with the strength of your game be called "Gun shy" or fighting scared?
What...Because he used to primarily come out as a standup fighter?
Evolving is now somehow a "weakness"?
I call total BS on that. Evolve or die is the basic mantra of MMA...how can you fault a dude for building strength in his overall gameplan and then using it to effectively dominate an opponent? Is macho "prove a point" BS somehow more important than a smart & effective gameplan.

BTW, No disrespect intended to Matt, he is one helluva tough dude...no doubt...but if you're gonna talk that sh*t, you can't hardly be upset when it comes back at ya.

[WarDawg]

I'm a GSP fan. But I don't nut suck like some of these guys around here do. Well maybe BJ Pens.. LOL..... There's no lucky punch. GSP got hammer the first fight. Serra did what he could and got handled the second fight. The chink in GSP's amour is his Heart in my opinion. Maybe he's fixed it. What I'm saying is in his First matt hughes fight I thought he could have held till the bell rang in that arm bar. He tappped immediately. I think he could have held for the 3 seconds and fought and won that fight against M H . I do agree with M H that GSP gave up that fight to easily. Then to the Serra fight he verbally tapped way to fast. I still saw no reason to have quit that fight.
I guess what I'm saying is when GSP wins he wins big time. I mean making the opponent look silly. When the heat got turn up on him I see something different. IMO. B J Pen was the only fight I seen him damaged and pull out the win. I personally thought B J Pen could have got the decision. While I'm glad GSP won I'm not to naive to not see weakness also. Kudos to GSP in doing a great job !!!!!!!!! John Fintch should be a decent match up.... WarDawg .

[Drewplata]

Why don't we take the word "fluke" off the table. We are dealing in semantics. What cannot be argued is that GSP is the far better fighter. When the better fighter loses, did he have a bad day? The only way to vindicate oneself is to have a rematch and completely dominate. GSP did that. Serra did, well, not much.
And I would like to re-iterate a previous point: GSP's game plan was never put into action in the 1st fight. He walked into an almost immediate right hand. You cannot argue that his game plan was so much better last night because he could have had the exact same game plan before. What was Serra's game plan? Obviously trying to submit from his back was not part of it. If he really thought that GSP would be afraid to take him down, then his plan was flawed. I think his plan was to try to land something and, if not, pick up his check and sign a deal to fight Hughes. It was a no lose situation for Serra.

[CounterPuncher]

Originally Posted by subgenius

Serra-GSP 1 = Serra dominated completely

Serra-GSP 2 = GSP dominated completely

Did I miss something?

The first fight was NOT a fluke. GSP had been completely owned by Matt Serra. The ONLY reason people keep saying it was a fluke was because Serra was "supposed to lose" that fight. Sorry GSP, but "I was not impressed with your performance." I love throwing those words back in his face. It took two rounds for GSP to do to Serra what Serra did to GSP in one round.

Compare all you like, but the bottom line is that these two fighters are now 1-1 against each other. Each took a title belt from the other guy in DOMINANT style. IMO, they are now even. Only a rubber match will decide who really is the better fighter.

I completely agree. Although I do think GSP would win the third match, technically they are even, and if Serra can win a fight or two then we might just get to see it.