CroCop-Gonzaga Spoiler - Page 2 - Fight Forum - MMA - UFC - Boxing - K1

Saskabush · 04-22-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeikanJudanski

Well, the reason he put his hands so low, was because he was totally out of it man. Those elbows were hard. He probably didn´t even know where the heck he was for a few seconds after being stood up. Yes, he had his hands low, and got kicked. I would like to see how well you stick to "golden rules" after having a 250 pound monster drop 20 elbows in your face.

CroCop has never been overrated, I love it when people call somebody overrated when they lose. How many of his fights have you seen, be honest. The very fact that you mention Sanchez and Randleman shows me that you must have maybe seen exactly TWO. CroCop´s striking was good enough to put most of the elite fighters of Pride on their back, he even showed superior striking to Fedor (but you can´t even knock Fedor out with dropping him on his head). What does Chuck´s striking have to do with Gonzaga´s ground game? It was Gonzaga´s excellent ground game that eventually got Mirko knocked out. Chuck is a excellent striker, but he doesn´t weigh as much as Gonzaga and probably would trade with Mirko from beginning to end, if you are going to say Chuck would have kicked his head of in a similar fashion, then you are wrong, because like I already said, it was the elbows that did the job, Mirko didn´t even see the kick coming he was so out of himself. And you know what? And maybe Gonzaga is just 1000% better than we thought.

CroCop DOES have excellent takedown defense, but it´s hard to defend from being taken down with one leg being held, after a kick to the ribs. Mirko has shown excellent takedown defense in many fights, don´t start imagining things. Yes, CroCop trained with Werdum, who is a ADCC champion, and a world class BJJ fighter. Don´t start taking stuff away from people just because they had a bad night. And a takedown is different from takedown defense. If Werdum didn´t take AA down, it was a. because he only tried twice. b. AA also has good TD defense.

It depends HOW overrated you imagined CroCop to be, nobody ever said he is unbeatable, nobody ever said he is the best figther in the world. Maybe Dana White hyped him up so much to the point, that little MMA Noobs now think he is overrated, however people who know Mirko and have seen all of his fights, know what he is capable of. If he decides to stay in the UFC , he WILL be HW champion. It´s just a matter of time.

Very well said. The only reason that CC is seen as overrated is because the expectations on him are so high. People are always raving about how he is the best striker in the world and has the best TD defense in the world. As soon as he makes one slight mistake or has a bad night as does any fighter, people jump at the chance to make it known that he did not live up to his high expectations. And for all the doubters that feel he will never make it big now and that this KO is the end for him, take SK's advice and watch his fights instead of basing judgements on hype or Dana/Joe Rogan's commentary. He will be back and he will dominate.

Dirty Fighter · 04-22-2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

It takes 20 days to be able to stretch to maximum extension. Kids in Mc'Dojos worldwide accomplish this. You thinking Gonzaga couldn't accomplish a text book roundhouse to the head on a shorter opponent takes away his credibility as a HW contender more than my claim that Cro Cop is overrated.

Flexibility does not equal speed, strength, and technique. There are people who have studied Martial Arts for years that can't kick like that. Hell, Chuck Norris couldn't kick like that at first. Go look at his older movies. There is some ugly kicking in them. And two inches or so is not a massive amount of height differential. Crocop lost. It happens. Everytime somebody gets KO'd are we gonna here you call them overrated? GSP, Hughes, AA, Wandy, Arona, Lil Nog, and many others have been KO'd by underdogs. They overrated too?

JDforce · 04-22-2007, 12:08 PM

CroCop looked so disappointed, I haven't seen the spike copy or any TV version, but did they show the amount of time crocop was out for, to me it seemed like 5 mins, he had to be put in the recovery position and have oxygen, I know this might be the UK overreacting but once he see's the tape back he might lose heart tottally, in all honesty at one point I thought he might be dead.

Daniel · 04-22-2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Fighter

Flexibility does not equal speed, strength, and technique. There are people who have studied Martial Arts for years that can't kick like that. Hell, Chuck Norris couldn't kick like that at first. Go look at his older movies. There is some ugly kicking in them. And two inches or so is not a massive amount of height differential. Crocop lost. It happens. Everytime somebody gets KO'd are we gonna here you call them overrated? GSP, Hughes, AA, Wandy, Arona, Lil Nog, and many others have been KO'd by underdogs. They overrated too?

You weren't talking about speed and strength, you said you were surprised he could kick that high. And why are you mentioning all of these other fighters? Just because they've been knocked out? That makes zero sense, man. I said Cro Cop was over rated because people said he could beat Chuck Liddell and that he was going to dominate the HW division. I didn't say he was over rated because he got KO'd. Nothing you said here made any sense as a part of this conversation.

Daniel · 04-22-2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeikanJudanski

Well, the reason he put his hands so low, was because he was totally out of it man. Those elbows were hard. He probably didn´t even know where the heck he was for a few seconds after being stood up. Yes, he had his hands low, and got kicked. I would like to see how well you stick to "golden rules" after having a 250 pound monster drop 20 elbows in your face.

CroCop has never been overrated, I love it when people call somebody overrated when they lose. How many of his fights have you seen, be honest. The very fact that you mention Sanchez and Randleman shows me that you must have maybe seen exactly TWO. CroCop´s striking was good enough to put most of the elite fighters of Pride on their back, he even showed superior striking to Fedor (but you can´t even knock Fedor out with dropping him on his head). What does Chuck´s striking have to do with Gonzaga´s ground game? It was Gonzaga´s excellent ground game that eventually got Mirko knocked out. Chuck is a excellent striker, but he doesn´t weigh as much as Gonzaga and probably would trade with Mirko from beginning to end, if you are going to say Chuck would have kicked his head of in a similar fashion, then you are wrong, because like I already said, it was the elbows that did the job, Mirko didn´t even see the kick coming he was so out of himself. And you know what? And maybe Gonzaga is just 1000% better than we thought.

CroCop DOES have excellent takedown defense, but it´s hard to defend from being taken down with one leg being held, after a kick to the ribs. Mirko has shown excellent takedown defense in many fights, don´t start imagining things. Yes, CroCop trained with Werdum, who is a ADCC champion, and a world class BJJ fighter. Don´t start taking stuff away from people just because they had a bad night. And a takedown is different from takedown defense. If Werdum didn´t take AA down, it was a. because he only tried twice. b. AA also has good TD defense.

It depends HOW overrated you imagined CroCop to be, nobody ever said he is unbeatable, nobody ever said he is the best figther in the world. Maybe Dana White hyped him up so much to the point, that little MMA Noobs now think he is overrated, however people who know Mirko and have seen all of his fights, know what he is capable of. If he decides to stay in the UFC , he WILL be HW champion. It´s just a matter of time.

Dude, all I'm trying to say here is:

Chuck Liddell > Cro Cop

And that everybody who thought Cro Cop would rip through the HW division and decapitate everybody, was wrong.

Saskabush · 04-22-2007, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

Dude, all I'm trying to say here is:

Chuck Liddell > Cro Cop

And that everybody who thought Cro Cop would rip through the HW division and decapitate everybody, was wrong.

Wow I won't even begin to say how wrong you are to say that.

SeikanJudanski · 04-22-2007, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

Dude, all I'm trying to say here is:

Chuck Liddell > Cro Cop

And that everybody who thought Cro Cop would rip through the HW division and decapitate everybody, was wrong.

Ok, that CroCop would rip through the division, is obviously not going to happen in the next few months, since he is already 1-2 in the UFC. About Chuck being greater than CroCop, you have nothing to base this on.

JDforce · 04-22-2007, 12:24 PM

isn't he 1-1 in the UFC or have I missed something

Dirty Fighter · 04-22-2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

You weren't talking about speed and strength, you said you were surprised he could kick that high. And why are you mentioning all of these other fighters? Just because they've been knocked out? That makes zero sense, man. I said Cro Cop was over rated because people said he could beat Chuck Liddell and that he was going to dominate the HW division. I didn't say he was over rated because he got KO'd. Nothing you said here made any sense as a part of this conversation.

Speed and strength are part of a GOOD kick though. I does no good to kick somebody in the head if it doesn't do any damage.

Crocop loses and you call him overrated. This thread wasn't created in between two Crocop wins. Are you trying to tell me that last nights fight had nothing to do with this thread? If so, then I call BS. If you watch an equal amount of Chuck's fights and Crocop's fights you'd see that Mirko is a better striker and does have great TD defense.

Edit: Typo Seiken, Mirko's 1-1 in the cage.

SeikanJudanski · 04-22-2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDforce

isn't he 1-1 in the UFC or have I missed something

Sorry I mean 1 out of 2.

Daniel · 04-22-2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeikanJudanski

About Chuck being greater than CroCop, you have nothing to base this on.

I have more to base it on then the fools that say Cro Cop is greater.

SeikanJudanski · 04-22-2007, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

I have more to base it on then the fools that say Cro Cop would beat Chuck.

First of all, why do you call people fools, that say CroCop can beat Chuck? Second, how about telling me how many of CroCop´s fights you have seen. Third, yes, tell me what you base it on, instead of getting childish and resorting to name calling.

Dirty Fighter · 04-22-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

I have more to base it on then the fools that say Cro Cop is greater.

Okay, now your calling names. Maybe I should start a poll and see who looks more like a fool. Or is FF filled with fools, because the general consensus is Crocop>Chuck.

Edit: Off topic, but scrolling through the screen I noticed how similar our avi's are Seiken, lol. I thought I double posted.

SeikanJudanski · 04-22-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Fighter

Edit: Off topic, but scrolling through the screen I noticed how similar our avi's are Seiken, lol. I thought I double posted.

Oh, yeah, I just noticed that too. lol. Nice...

Daniel · 04-22-2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Fighter

Speed and strength are part of a GOOD kick though. I does no good to kick somebody in the head if it doesn't do any damage.

That's not the point. You said you didn't think he could kick that high. You said that as an excuse for Cro Cop to drop his hands, and I'm saying that that excuse isn't valid. Just about any top level comptetitor in the UFC can kick that high, and kicks are generally powerful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Fighter

Crocop loses and you call him overrated. This thread wasn't created in between two Crocop wins. Are you trying to tell me that last nights fight had nothing to do with this thread?

Yes, that's what I'm trying to tell you. That this thread, called CroCop-Gonzaga Spoiler, which I DIDN'T make, has nothing to do with last night's fight. Are you on crack by any chance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Fighter

If so, then I call BS.

Okay, then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Fighter

If you watch an equal amount of Chuck's fights and Crocop's fights you'd see that Mirko is a better striker and does have great TD defense.

How exactly would I draw that conclusion considering that Liddell has a better record, has beaten more top level competitors, has less losses, and has never been KO'd?

Super Warrior · 04-22-2007, 12:45 PM

After what i saw last night, no way in hell could crocop hang with chuck! At least not in this point in time.

If Crocop fought chuck next week, the Iceman would do the same thing gonzaga did, only it would be a punch instead of a kick.

Crocop is overrated in the sense that the majority of this board looks at him like he is godly, and the massive denial i've read here is nutz. I'm not saying he is not a good fighter, but face the facts:

You guys were wrong, crocop is not an unstoppable machine, and UFC guys can knock him out. Before somebody chimes in with a comment like: "Nobody ever said crocop was unbeatable". Puh-lease! I could search up hundreds of posts saying just that.

Hell even i made the mistake of buying into this board's Bullsh*t hype, threw all my points on Crocop, and then watched him perform average-at-best in the cage, and then get KOed in devastating fashion.

SeikanJudanski · 04-22-2007, 12:45 PM

Daniel, if you don´t stop calling people fools and implying that they are on crack, I will personally make sure you fell the consequences from the mods. If you are trying to present facts in a debate, then stick to the facts and be objective. Calling people names is not only childish, but it also makes you uncredible.

Daniel · 04-22-2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeikanJudanski

First of all, why do you call people fools, that say CroCop can beat Chuck? Second, how about telling me how many of CroCop´s fights you have seen. Third, yes, tell me what you base it on, instead of getting childish and resorting to name calling.

You're right; I apologize for the name calling. Truth is, I've spent way too much time on this forum today and I have to get to bed. I base Liddell being better than Cro Cop on the opponents that Liddell has beaten...I see them as higher caliber fighters. I also base it on the fact that nobody has ever knocked Liddell clean out on the stand up, and he has only had three losses, two of which have been redeemed. This is going to come down to MMAmath with a who beat who conversation, which is way too much to get into. As for how many of Cro Cop's fights I've seen, I don't know the exact number but I've seen his fight with Mark Hunt, his fight with Fedor, his fight with Wanderlei Silva, his fights with Randleman, and his UFC bouts, off the top of my head.

Dirty Fighter · 04-22-2007, 12:47 PM

Okay, my bad. You didn't create the thread. But posting that Crocop is overrated right after a loss and then saying the loss had no hand in you drawing that conclusion is BS. As for the high kick, I stand by my opinion that it was not odd for Mirko to cover the midsection. That kick going up top caught everybody off guard, not just Crocop. Oh, except you. When are you fighting Randy for the title again?

And you keep getting personal. Grow up. It's one thing to debate fighters, but you are acting like a 12 year old. I don't share your opinion, like many others. Get over it.

Edit: His post beat mine to the board. Thank you for the apology, Daniel.