Where are all the good fighters??? - Fight Forum - MMA - UFC - Boxing - K1

williamN · 09-18-2005, 06:48 PM

With nearly 12 years of the UFC you would think there would be a large pool of very talented fighters to pick from. But by the looks of many of the fighters recently it looks like they are scaping the bottom of the barrel.

Watching some of the fighters on TUF and the PPV events you would think it was amateur night.

I know that the UFC powers know exactly what they are getting when they sign on these fighters for PPV and the TUF shows. What game are they playing? They aren't trying to give those fighters with obviously very little/no talent a break. Josh Rafferty is a prime example but there are many many more that you or I could point out. Why do they insist on on using these types of people ( I don't even want to call them fighters ) in their events? So they can have someone to get completely dominated and pummeled to make good show for casual viewers?

As much as I use to love the UFC they are making it harder and harder to swallow. I was really excited about TUF but now that I see what they are doing with TUF and the "stars" and the lack of talent they they bringing in I am finding it harder and harder to watch. I catch the TUF show on Sat. and I didn't even bother watching the entire show. I tuned in about the last twenty minutes and after watching the minutes count down and the pre-fight comments by Dana White about how great Joe is I already knew who was most likely going to win and who one of the next stars were going to be.

Now back to the original statement with a question. With fighters litterally growing up watching the UFC shouldn't there be massive amount of talent to pick from? Wouldn't a lot of great fighters that have only showcased their talents in small shows ( which the UFC has to be aware of ) would almost be willing to fight for very little monetary compensation to get the chance to fight in the "great" UFC?

I could tolerate all the new rules in the late 1990s but what is going on now is really making me lose interest. If it wasn't for anger I wouldn't feel much for the "new" UFC.

Can anyone list the "beat up guys" and "stars to be" on TUF 2 yet? What a well planned show. If it wasn't for injuries they could almost script it.

SeikanJudanski · 09-18-2005, 07:55 PM

To answer the question of where the good fighters are at... they are at PRIDE.

[Danny] · 09-18-2005, 09:20 PM

I think UFC needs to pick apart the B class promotions like KOTC, Cage Rage, and TKO to it's bones to start developing a solid talent pool. Necause right now, the UFC is in a very developmental stage.

Hey, but look at it this way. Who would you rather see in the UFC? A TUF fighter or Tank/Kimo?

williamN · 09-19-2005, 04:13 AM

Not to be a smart ass but I would rather see Tank or Kimo over Florian or that little asian that Diaz fought against in his last fight, just to name two. I would love to see Kimo fight Griffin or Bonnar.

Why is the UFC still fighting Florian?

Crashsti · 09-19-2005, 09:13 AM

i think that the UFC is'nt really going after the best fighters. they are going after the most interesting fighters or the most entertaining fighters. they want fighters who are approachable and marketable. the UFC is trying very hard to label thier fighters not as fighters, but as athletes. MMA is drawing a very fine line between combat and sports entertainment. i am sure that there are fighters out there that could destroy the current crop of talent but things like rules keep them away. i'm not talking eye gouging or groin shots, i am looking at things like time limits, rounds, standing fighters up, or breaking them up in the case of a stalemate, also known as a lack of action. its unfortunate that if we want to see the UFC in the mainstream we have to watch as they bow down before all the athletic commisions they previously gave the middle finger to.

JoeRoganismyhero · 09-19-2005, 09:21 AM

I have an interesting take on this, does it get to the point that fighters that are too good are boring to watch? They don't make as many mistakes which leads to less chance of a awesome knockout, and when they take it to the ground it's tough for either one to get going because they are good at both offense and defense. Maybe Dana and the UFC are going after guys who they think will be exciting to watch, not the best fighters...what does anyone else think of this theory?

Crashsti · 09-19-2005, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRoganismyhero

I have an interesting take on this, does it get to the point that fighters that are too good are boring to watch? They don't make as many mistakes which leads to less chance of a awesome knockout, and when they take it to the ground it's tough for either one to get going because they are good at both offense and defense. Maybe Dana and the UFC are going after guys who they think will be exciting to watch, not the best fighters...what does anyone else think of this theory?

again it all depends on your definition of best fighters. to Dana White the best fighters are the ones who put on the most entertaining fights. Bas Rutten said something along these lines. "if you're an exciting fighter to watch and you lose, don't worry, you'll probably get a second chance. if your a boring fighting and win, you will have another chance. however if you're a boring fighter and lose, don't expect to get a call back.". the UFC is entertainment and in an effort to grow and not get banned they've moved FAR FAR away from simply having vicious fights and fighters and the notion of No Holds Barred. the UFC now has alot of pretty boys.

AikaImmortal · 09-19-2005, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamN

Not to be a smart ass but I would rather see Tank or Kimo over Florian or that little asian that Diaz fought against in his last fight, just to name two. I would love to see Kimo fight Griffin or Bonnar.

Why is the UFC still fighting Florian?

Koji Oishi might not be one of the best fighters, but the guy is a fairly good fighter. 14-4-0

shogun · 09-19-2005, 04:06 PM

I have stayed out of these "Dana White is a bad guy" and "The UFC coddles their fighters" or "The UFC is going down hill" converstaions. I do this because I dont want to get drawn in and have stronger feelings towards one side or the other.

I always try to keep a possitive outlook and aspect on the MMA world. I want them to do well, whatever it takes. I wish the best because MMA is apart of my future.

This is a rebuilding time for the UFC. Maybe in order to make the UFC mainstream, there are a few things they think is best in order to futher the sport. TUF drama, cutting boring players. The sacrifice is too much for some UFC fans, but I think with due time, it will get better. Until people in this world can comprehend the mixed martial arts aspect of this sport, this sport will stay at a stalemate. It sure could get bigger and bigger over time without some hollywood help, but this is apparently the fastest way to do it.

Maybe the way Dana and the UFC are doing it right now doesnt seem the best for their faithful viewers, but wait 5-10 years and look and see where its at. This is a transitional stage to make people in the world understand the world of MMA. So they can understand all aspects of fighting, not just the exciting kickboxing matches, but great grappling matches as well.

Anyway, just a bit of rambling. Just keep an open mind guys, dont get drawn in to everyones drama of how they think the sport should be or is being run.

DrumzCT · 09-19-2005, 04:37 PM

Awesome post Shogun. That's really what I've been trying to say in all my defense of Dayna posts but not as well. This last move with the internet media ban has me pretty agitated though, as I practically live on MMA Weekly when I'm not on here, often on both at once but anyway.

I'm trying to be optimistic and hope that they have the interests of the sport at heart. If I thought that UFC.tv could do as good a job as MMA Weekly or Sherdog I wouldn't care as much but thier site sucks.

Anyway, I am hopefull that in a few years we'll see our sport as a recognized athletic competition of skilled athletes and if this kind of stuff needs to happen to get us there then that's cool. Time will soon tell what Dana White's true intentions are, wether noble or selfish and then we'll see what happens. Until then, I'm trying very hard to stay optimistic.

shogun · 09-19-2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrumzCT

Awesome post Shogun. That's really what I've been trying to say in all my defense of Dayna posts but not as well.

I'm trying to be optimistic and hope that they have the interests of the sport at heart. If I thought that UFC.tv could do as good a job as MMA Weekly or Sherdog I wouldn't care as much but thier site sucks.

Anyway, I am hopefull that in a few years we'll see our sport as a recognized athletic competition of skilled athletes and if this kind of stuff needs to happen to get us there then that's cool. Time will soon tell what Dana White's true intentions are, wether noble or selfish and then we'll see what happens. Until then, I'm trying very hard to stay optimistic.

I appreciate your optimism, I think that we should all be optimistic. If we try to keep optimistic I think good things will come. If we decide to be disgruntled fans, I think it will hurt the sport more than help it, as new fans and media will catch on to our negatism and be drawn away from MMA. God help us if people start to like boxing again

DrumzCT · 09-19-2005, 06:03 PM

Haha, definitely agree with you there. I posted in the other thread about the blackout but MMA is still awaiting official word from Zuffa apparently, so it's all speculation until we get some official word.

angryjonny · 09-19-2005, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shogun

I appreciate your optimism, I think that we should all be optimistic. If we try to keep optimistic I think good things will come. If we decide to be disgruntled fans, I think it will hurt the sport more than help it, as new fans and media will catch on to our negatism and be drawn away from MMA. God help us if people start to like boxing again

Better hope Bull doesn't read that

Anyway I agree with you. I was like you as well in trying to stay out of the what's better scenarios but I couldn't resist. I have not been a big fan of some of Dana's (I know it isn't just him, but he's the voice of UFC) moves, mainly cutting his good fighters and the magazine shenanigans/banning internet media. Seriously who wants to read an old news magazine when they can get on the internet and get information immediately. I don't think the future for UFC looks all the bright if the UFC is pushing away it's core audience in favor of the reality TV fad. What happens when something else comes along and those fans who aren't true fans of the sport and they won't support it anymore? I'm not talking about the people who found a love in MMA from the show. I am talking about the people who are just into it because they like reality TV. I know several people who don't watch the events and don't even like to watch the fights in TUF, they just like the drama. It's basically the jock's "Road Rules." My mom even likes the show for cryin out loud. Is she an MMA fan because she just likes the show? Will she care when it's gone?

shogun · 09-19-2005, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryjonny

What happens when something else comes along and those fans who aren't true fans of the sport and they won't support it anymore?...
My mom even likes the show for cryin out loud. Is she an MMA fan because she just likes the show? Will she care when it's gone?

No, but I bet you there will be some who will stick with it, and I think that is the point of these UFC "reality shows". The UFC strived for TEN YEARS without mainstream support, I think they can do it again if they need to anyway

Besides, do you really think that Dana and the UFC knew TuF was going to be this big? No, they even admitted that they didnt.

cuzeeeboy · 09-25-2005, 09:39 PM

I have stayed out of these "Dana White is a bad guy" and "The UFC coddles their fighters" or "The UFC is going down hill" converstaions. I do this because I dont want to get drawn in and have stronger feelings towards one side or the other.

DAna needs to be fired his fights are bogus, he thinks hes big, but right now Pride owns UFC

Crashsti · 09-26-2005, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuzeeeboy

I have stayed out of these "Dana White is a bad guy" and "The UFC coddles their fighters" or "The UFC is going down hill" converstaions. I do this because I dont want to get drawn in and have stronger feelings towards one side or the other.

DAna needs to be fired his fights are bogus, he thinks hes big, but right now Pride owns UFC

you should'nt edit other people's posts when you quote them. anyhow, the UFC screwed itself early on with the NHB, anything goes, two men enter one man leaves crap. they promoted the violence and not the sport. they refused to deal with athletic commisions and got booted off of American television. Pride started after UFC and went about it the right way, of course they would have done that anyway because the Japanese have a sense of history and pride. to them two men fighting is honorable not violent. you also don't seem to understand that Dana White is a minor partner in Zuffa, he does'nt make all the rules.

Unknown · 09-26-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

you also don't seem to understand that Dana White is a minor partner in Zuffa, he does'nt make all the rules.

Yes he is a minor partner in Zuffa, but he is the president of the UFC, a separate company owned by zuffa. He has the most direct authority over the UFC. The Fertittas are the owners but don't handle the day to day running of the company. Plus he is the most recognizable member of the UFC's administration, and therefore the easiest one for us to direct our frustration at.

Back on topic, the UFC needs to take some of that money they are making from TUF and the new fans watching the PPVs into increasing the pay their fighters get. That way they can entice better fighters to fight for them.

JoeRoganismyhero · 09-26-2005, 11:25 AM

I agree, they keep calling themselves the "Super Bowl" of MMA, But if that's true they should offer the best payouts to retain the best fighters, and as I see it they seem to be losing more and more elite fighters!!

angryjonny · 09-26-2005, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

you should'nt edit other people's posts when you quote them. anyhow, the UFC screwed itself early on with the NHB, anything goes, two men enter one man leaves crap. they promoted the violence and not the sport. they refused to deal with athletic commisions and got booted off of American television. Pride started after UFC and went about it the right way, of course they would have done that anyway because the Japanese have a sense of history and pride. to them two men fighting is honorable not violent. you also don't seem to understand that Dana White is a minor partner in Zuffa, he does'nt make all the rules.

The thing about that is a lot of the people who attend the UFC events don't appreciate the sport either. They boo when it goes to the ground and only want to see boxing. But it is not the UFC that is promoting that, I just think it is funny that even when they promote it correctly, to a lot of the "fans" it's still just about violence. They don't want to see Frank Mir pull off the most beautiful armbar that has ever been applied. They want to see him pull it off first slap Sylvia around with it then KO him.

rhtufts · 09-26-2005, 06:21 PM

I just watched my first two Pride events this weekend and I have to agree… all the good fighters are in Pride!

Its like I have been watching peewee football all my life with no clue that the NFL was just one channel away.

.02
Russell