Discuss the caliber of Pride fighters in the UFC - Fight Forum - MMA - UFC - Boxing - K1

ImageFX · 09-09-2007, 07:13 PM

I'm not exactly the smartest guy when it comes to Pride. But I'm on par with the UFC. So here is what I've noticed coming from a UFC standpoint.

I haven't seen much competition for the UFC with all these Pride fighters coming over. I understand that Anderson Silva is from Pride along with Rampage. But the UFC has brought over a lot of Pride fighters and boost about how great these Pride fighters are. Yet, when I watch them take on guys from the UFC, I'm not impressed with many Pride fighters. So coming from my UFC background, it makes me question the level of competition the Pride fighters have in Pride. Biggest example would be Crocop. What level of competition did he face in Pride? Why all the hype, yet, I see him as having some of the worst ground game I've seen. Also, wasn't Crane from Pride? And they made a big deal out of him? I laughed at his fight against Roberto Huerta.

I'm not going to sit back and dive into all the names from Pride that have not impressed me (Heath "The Texas Crazy Horse" Herring to name another). But like I said, I'm in the dark when it comes to Pride fighting and am trying to get myself updated. But does anyone else see it this way? It makes me sit back and wonder if the UFC does already have the best of the best. Yes, I understand some of you are thinking about Fedor. We'll tackle that as it comes. But right now I just don't feel like the Pride fighters have fought the same caliber fighters as there are in the UFC.

I'm not looking for a flame thread. I'm trying to get more in depth with the Pride organization. But this is again what I'm seeing. Pride coming into the UFC with all the hype, but not proving anything to me.

Please give me honest feedback on what you think. I could be totally out of line on this. But remember, I am a rookie Pride watcher and not nearly up to date on any of the Pride fighters other than who i've seen in the UFC.

So if someone could maybe give me some insight into Pride and let me know if I'm way off base or somewhere in the ballpark. Thanks!

GSPALLTHEWAY · 09-09-2007, 07:18 PM

well thought out thread.... hopefully it wont be a flaming thread, but to answer your question ive been kind of shocked about how badly the pride guys have done here... i dont know what the reason had been.... would fedor been similar to guys like crocop etc?? who knows.... i really cant account for any of this, id like to hear some theories too though

GeorgeXVX · 09-09-2007, 07:23 PM

yeah so this is going to get shut down pretty fast...

One cro cop lost a fair fight against GG and just made a mistake. Kongo looked like ass when he fought cro cop. Cro cop just looked worse. Maybe because he broke his rib in the first round and had his nuts used like a heavy bag but hey i guess a broken rib and multipl shots to the groin shouldn't gas you.

Heath herring hasnt been a pride fighter in YEARS... Yes he fought in pride at one point in his career but so did Sean Sherk. Your lack of knowledge in pride can be solved very easily by just going out of your way for a change and watching a pride event. They are easy to find and not that expensive to buy if thats the road you went to take. I understand you dont get the cro cop fight because he hasnt had the best run in the ufc. He had a fight against a nobody that RAN from him the entire fight. Then he lost a fight to GG but even so left a huge mark on GG body if you actually try to remember something from the fight besides the KO. The Kongo thing is what it is. I guess its ok for BJ to break a rib and get an excuse but not for anyone else? Just like its ok for him to hold a choke but not anyone else?

ImageFX · 09-09-2007, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeXVX

yeah so this is going to get shut down pretty fast...

One cro cop lost a fair fight against GG and just made a mistake. Kongo looked like ass when he fought cro cop. Cro cop just looked worse. Maybe because he broke his rib in the first round and had his nuts used like a heavy bag but hey i guess a broken rib and multipl shots to the groin shouldn't gas you.

Heath herring hasnt been a pride fighter in YEARS... Yes he fought in pride at one point in his career but so did Sean Sherk. Your lack of knowledge in pride can be solved very easily by just going out of your way for a change and watching a pride event. They are easy to find and not that expensive to buy if thats the road you went to take. I understand you dont get the cro cop fight because he hasnt had the best run in the ufc. He had a fight against a nobody that RAN from him the entire fight. Then he lost a fight to GG but even so left a huge mark on GG body if you actually try to remember something from the fight besides the KO. The Kongo thing is what it is. I guess its ok for BJ to break a rib and get an excuse but not for anyone else? Just like its ok for him to hold a choke but not anyone else?

Your sarcasm and belittling to my totally harmless and knowledge seeking thread does me no good. I don't know how you missed me COMPLETELY explaining where I was coming from when it comes to Pride and the UFC. I guess you read half or only what you chose to read. Instead, you attempt to point out what I "am" and "am not" seeing in these Pride guys. I appreciate the reply( hope you like my "sarcasm"). Please leave room for others to "discuss" this topic. Not break it down.

jake · 09-09-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeXVX

yeah so this is going to get shut down pretty fast...

One cro cop lost a fair fight against GG and just made a mistake. Kongo looked like ass when he fought cro cop. Cro cop just looked worse. Maybe because he broke his rib in the first round and had his nuts used like a heavy bag but hey i guess a broken rib and multipl shots to the groin shouldn't gas you.

Heath herring hasnt been a pride fighter in YEARS... Yes he fought in pride at one point in his career but so did Sean Sherk. Your lack of knowledge in pride can be solved very easily by just going out of your way for a change and watching a pride event. They are easy to find and not that expensive to buy if thats the road you went to take. I understand you dont get the cro cop fight because he hasnt had the best run in the ufc. He had a fight against a nobody that RAN from him the entire fight. Then he lost a fight to GG but even so left a huge mark on GG body if you actually try to remember something from the fight besides the KO. The Kongo thing is what it is. I guess its ok for BJ to break a rib and get an excuse but not for anyone else? Just like its ok for him to hold a choke but not anyone else?

bully much?

i am unsure of teh forum etiquette, but replies like this certainly are not the reason i joined this forum. in fact, replies this are why i didnt join sherdog oo others.

does this happen often around here? after lurking for a few weeks and checking it out, i thought this may the highest calibur of forum, time will tell i suppose.

anyway, i liked the thread, and i have wondered this same thing. i dont have an answer, but i am looking forward to hearing people's ideas, just so long as they are more respectful and classier than the guy i quoted.

MTKrav911 · 09-09-2007, 07:34 PM

Well there's one Pride fighter you can argue is doing pretty damn well which forced The UFC to change it's plans

Quinton "Rampage" Jackson.

This guy totally dismantled who everyone here in The US THOUGHT was the best LHW in the world in Chuck "The Iceman" LIddell. Now we see that Liddell is more like #8 or 9 in the world.

And in my opinion, there are no UFC LHW's that can take out Quinton right now. Not one.

Rocky12233 · 09-09-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTKrav911

Well there's one Pride fighter you can argue is doing pretty damn well which forced The UFC to change it's plans

Quinton "Rampage" Jackson.

This guy totally dismantled who everyone here in The US THOUGHT was the best LHW in the world in Chuck "The Iceman" LIddell. Now we see that Liddell is more like #8 or 9 in the world.

And in my opinion, there are no UFC LHW's that can take out Quinton right now. Not one.

Glad to see I am not the only one

jake · 09-09-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTKrav911

Well there's one Pride fighter you can argue is doing pretty damn well which forced The UFC to change it's plans

Quinton "Rampage" Jackson.

This guy totally dismantled who everyone here in The US THOUGHT was the best LHW in the world in Chuck "The Iceman" LIddell. Now we see that Liddell is more like #8 or 9 in the world.

And in my opinion, there are no UFC LHW's that can take out Quinton right now. Not one.

although i agree that no one is beating ramapge for a while, he also had stints in other american orgs prior to his arrival in the ufc. was he not a WFA or WEC (i forget) champion? i also think he did some freelance work, but if we want to consider him a pride fighter, then yeah, he seems to be the exception to the emerging trend.

also, there has been little mention of werdum, who looked terrible against AA in a fight where AA looked terrible against werdum.

i recall dana sending chuck over to pride to dominate the pride guys. he beat guy mezger (who spent time in ufc) and overeem ( i think), but got beaten by ramapge, so maybe its a rampage as a fighter thing rather than a pride/ufc thing.

the only way to tell for sure is to send them on to an island and have them compete in a tournament hosted by a guy with creepy eyebrows and a metal afro-pic for a hand... solid!!!

FightingIrish · 09-09-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTKrav911

Well there's one Pride fighter you can argue is doing pretty damn well which forced The UFC to change it's plans

Quinton "Rampage" Jackson.

This guy totally dismantled who everyone here in The US THOUGHT was the best LHW in the world in Chuck "The Iceman" LIddell. Now we see that Liddell is more like #8 or 9 in the world.

And in my opinion, there are no UFC LHW's that can take out Quinton right now. Not one.

I agree Rampage is probably the best pride fighter to come over so far, but I think Hendo will do really well to.

MTKrav911 · 09-09-2007, 08:22 PM

Quinton had one fight with WFA before the UFC bought out WFA exclusively because they wanted to buy out Jackson's contract according to Rogan and Goldy last night.

The rest was all Pride.

He's a Pride fighter.

Early in his career he had one fight deals with KOTC and a couple of other orgs but for the last 4 years plush he's been exclusively with Pride.

And now UFC LHW champion

ImageFX · 09-09-2007, 08:29 PM

I agree that Rampage has proved all the hype about himself. But my thing is what about the other fighters. Anderson Silva is another that we can't say was a disappointment. He came in, got the title and has since then defended it. Do I think Rich Franklin learned from his fight and will beat Silva the second time around? Yes. But still, even if Silva losses, he came in and did prove to be a tough force coming out of Pride.

MTKrav911 · 09-09-2007, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImageFX

I agree that Rampage has proved all the hype about himself. But my thing is what about the other fighters. Anderson Silva is another that we can't say was a disappointment. He came in, got the title and has since then defended it. Do I think Rich Franklin learned from his fight and will beat Silva the second time around? Yes. But still, even if Silva losses, he came in and did prove to be a tough force coming out of Pride.

Exactly. And like many of you, I think Henderson will definitely drop down to MW and make alot of noise if not dominate in MW division.

You can't KO Hendo. You can't outwrestle him. All you can do is what rampage did last night. Land your blows, try to stay on top of him and gas him out enough to eek out a win.

Hendo is gonna make some noise in The UFC

non?compos?mentis? · 09-09-2007, 08:42 PM

There's probably an arguement for both sides. Like Rampage for example, was'nt his ranking dropping in Pride? And now he is top in UFC. Cro Cop, consider one of best in Pride, not doing so well in UFC. Also I think it's a little premature, at this time, to say. Still alot of Pride guys, yet to prove themselves. But would like to read some theories as well.

jake · 09-09-2007, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTKrav911

Exactly. And like many of you, I think Henderson will definitely drop down to MW and make alot of noise if not dominate in MW division.

You can't KO Hendo. You can't outwrestle him. All you can do is what rampage did last night. Land your blows, try to stay on top of him and gas him out enough to eek out a win.

Hendo is gonna make some noise in The UFC

eek out a win? i am not sure i understand. ramapge, after round 1 won a fight, he didnt eek it out.

i cant ko hendo, but i think anderson could. leben couldnt be koed ether, nor could rich.

Magoogly10 · 09-09-2007, 08:47 PM

I think a major difference for some pride fighters coming over is that it's a different fight with the cage. In the ufc you can use the cage in the clinch and with your ground and pound. With fights in pride being stopped and restarted in the middle it seems like(from what I've watched) that the pride fights are more of a brawl type of fight.

non?compos?mentis? · 09-09-2007, 08:57 PM

I think the cage hinders alot of good possible ground fights, Something Pride fans in Japan loved. But that being said they also loved a good brawl.You get someone trapped against the cage, to me thats more of a brawl fight. But these are pro fighters, and maybe there abit of difference between the cage and ropes, I would think that they could adapt, overcome, and conquer!!

GeorgeXVX · 09-09-2007, 09:11 PM

i love how i am an ******* even though this thread has been done to death (many times over by many other people on this forum) and fight forum actually does have rules against where this thread will no doubt go.

CounterPuncher · 09-09-2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTKrav911

Well there's one Pride fighter you can argue is doing pretty damn well which forced The UFC to change it's plans

Quinton "Rampage" Jackson.

This guy totally dismantled who everyone here in The US THOUGHT was the best LHW in the world in Chuck "The Iceman" LIddell. Now we see that Liddell is more like #8 or 9 in the world.

And in my opinion, there are no UFC LHW's that can take out Quinton right now. Not one.

I'm not quite sure why you think after 1 loss, now Chuck is way down to #9? So with this logic, you're saying that if somebody decisivly beats Rampage you will then rank him number 8 or 9 right? I highly doubt you would.

CounterPuncher · 09-09-2007, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeXVX

i love how i am an ******* even though this thread has been done to death (many times over by many other people on this forum) and fight forum actually does have rules against where this thread will no doubt go.

If this thread has been "done to death", then I ask you why you would even view it, let alone waste your time to post in it?

GeorgeXVX · 09-09-2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CounterPuncher

If this thread has been "done to death", then I ask you why you would even view it, let alone waste your time to post in it?

haha thats like the sherdog dog argument that people post when people ***** attempt.

"STOP POSTING IN TROLLS THREADS" even though they ae reading and posting in it....

IT IS THE INTERNET! i will post and waste my time on whatever i want... thats why i come on the internet. I can do what i want here. its not like work where i have to where a stupid company shirt and pants...