Couture quits the UFC???

Gooner · 10-16-2007, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Whatever the contracts and dealings stated, I think that Dan Henderson will always be seen as a stand-up guy that fought the fights that he needed to fight and that the promotions sent his way. I like the guy. But, right now, I cannot say all that about Fedor Emelianenko. He is or was the PRIDE Fighting heavywieght champion. He had a chance to prove that he was, is, and always will be the best. Now, all I can agree with is that hw was the best. But, now he is not the best. and I don't think that he will always be the best. At least with Randy Couture we can say that he went out a champion and he never ran away from a fight.

Wait, Fedor ran from Randy, but Randy never ran from a fight?
Someone's wearing his IhateFedor-glasses.

-Randy has/had 2 fights left in his contract.
-He also said that if UFC would have gotten Fedor, he would have asked for the same pay Fedor got - which most likely would have been declined. Then what?
-He also has a hell of a lot more to prove in the division than Fedor does. Losses to Barnett and Ricco, wins over an injured Sylvia and Gonzaga. Yeah, it'll take more than that to be #1 in my book.
Fedor has already dominated both Nog and Crocop twice. Let's see Randy beat either of them before we start even dreaming about stripping Fedor of his #1 status.
-Why bother, Fedor vs. Barnett makes more sense anyway.

Crazy · 10-17-2007, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Whatever the contracts and dealings stated, I think that Dan Henderson will always be seen as a stand-up guy that fought the fights that he needed to fight and that the promotions sent his way. I like the guy. But, right now, I cannot say all that about Fedor Emelianenko. He is or was the PRIDE Fighting heavywieght champion. He had a chance to prove that he was, is, and always will be the best. Now, all I can agree with is that hw was the best. But, now he is not the best. and I don't think that he will always be the best. At least with Randy Couture we can say that he went out a champion and he never ran away from a fight.

-Yea. I am sure that the HW fighters left in UFC feel the same.He beat a Sylvia with a bad back.
-Gonzaga is just like the champion.We do not really know how good he is.
When Randy beat GG he broke his nose early. I am sure that change the outcome of that match.GG have had one great match and then getting a titleshot.
-The best striker Couture meet beat the living **** out of him 2 times=chuck Liddel.
-We can`t say any of this things about Fedor ecsept that he did not want come to UFC. That is his own choice.The reason for that we do not even know.
One thing we do know is that Fedor have never dodged anyone before.
If he was in UFC and did not want to meet Randy I would agree with you.
But he is not so grow up and acsept that Fedor do not want to fight for the a**h****s who are running UFC.
-still Randy got a lot more to prove then Fedor and saying the other HW in UFC is not worth fighting is a huge insult to them and not a champ worthy.
He should have kept that for himself.I agree in many of Randys reasons for leaving but he should have stayed respectfull to the other fighters in UFC.

subgenius · 10-17-2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooner

Wait, Fedor ran from Randy, but Randy never ran from a fight?
Someone's wearing his IhateFedor-glasses.

-Randy has/had 2 fights left in his contract.
-He also said that if UFC would have gotten Fedor, he would have asked for the same pay Fedor got - which most likely would have been declined. Then what?
-He also has a hell of a lot more to prove in the division than Fedor does. Losses to Barnett and Ricco, wins over an injured Sylvia and Gonzaga. Yeah, it'll take more than that to be #1 in my book.
Fedor has already dominated both Nog and Crocop twice. Let's see Randy beat either of them before we start even dreaming about stripping Fedor of his #1 status.
-Why bother, Fedor vs. Barnett makes more sense anyway.

How do YOU know it would have been declined? Couture is NOT 24 years old. Nor is Couture 31 like Fedor. Couture is 44 and he does NOT have many fights left in his career. He knows that. And, Fedor knows that. NOW is the time to stike while the iron is still hot. A year from now or a few years from now will simply be too late.

And, we can all use MMA-math, Gooner. Napao KO'd Cro-Cop. Couture TKO'd Napao. Couture beat Sylvia. Sylvia had wins over Andre Arlovski. It's a vicious MMA-math circle.

subgenius · 10-17-2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy

-Yea. I am sure that the HW fighters left in UFC feel the same.He beat a Sylvia with a bad back.
-Gonzaga is just like the champion.We do not really know how good he is.
When Randy beat GG he broke his nose early. I am sure that change the outcome of that match.GG have had one great match and then getting a titleshot.
-The best striker Couture meet beat the living **** out of him 2 times=chuck Liddel.
-We can`t say any of this things about Fedor ecsept that he did not want come to UFC. That is his own choice.The reason for that we do not even know.
One thing we do know is that Fedor have never dodged anyone before.
If he was in UFC and did not want to meet Randy I would agree with you.
But he is not so grow up and acsept that Fedor do not want to fight for the a**h****s who are running UFC.
-still Randy got a lot more to prove then Fedor and saying the other HW in UFC is not worth fighting is a huge insult to them and not a champ worthy.
He should have kept that for himself.I agree in many of Randys reasons for leaving but he should have stayed respectfull to the other fighters in UFC.

Liddell-Couture was at LHW. Did Fedor drop down to fight anybody at LHW? Couture has always seemed willing to take risks. And, since August of 2005, Fedor has not fought any real serious challengers. Hunt? Maybe the only one worthy of a shot. It's been over two years since Fedor took a risk with his title or his record as a fight. He is NOT taking any risks or facing any challenges in BodogFIGHTS or M-1. I just don't see how avoiding the UFC helps Fedor's legacy except to protect himself from losses.

Crashsti · 10-17-2007, 01:02 PM

to me this is something that should be happening in boxing not MMA. Fedor is a respected champion but these days he seems content with taking the big payday instead of the big fights. if he does'nt step up and fight other great fighters how can anyone claim he is the best? To be the best you have to beat the best and keep beating the best. at least Randy made an effort and did so at 44 years of age. are we doomed to see Fedor fighting washed up heavyweights for the next few years? seems likely....and by the way, i include Barnett in this since he has been inactive and relatively unimpressive.

Nasty-J · 10-17-2007, 01:09 PM

Where the hell is Jeff Moson?

Saskabush · 10-17-2007, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

Fedor is a respected champion but these days he seems content with taking the big payday instead of the big fights.

We don't really have enough information to make any judgements yet but the info that we do have points to the exact opposite of what you said here. The UFC apparently offered him the most money but he turned them down. I think it has to do a lot more with personal things than money, if Fedor wanted a huge payday we would have signed the contract with the UFC no questions asked.

Sub, why do you have to keep saying that Fedor is avoiding big fights? That is complete biased speculation and until we hear the exact details of his contract negotiations with the UFC it will remain as biased speculation. I know you are angry that he didn't sign with the UFC but don't you think it is a bit foolish to make so many baseless accusations repeatedly?

subgenius · 10-17-2007, 01:14 PM

Josh Barnett is a strange case. He was a pro-wrestler. And, people say pro-wrestlers could never make it big in MMA. LOL. Barnett's fighting style has been described (like at Sherdog) as "pro-wrestling" LOL. Barnett went 0-3 against Cro-Cop and 1-1 against Big Nog. And, after beating Couture some time back, Barnett was stripped of the UFC world HW title when Barnett tested positive for steroids. I just have trouble getting behind him as a real challenger for Fedor. In Russia, I doubt that they would test Barnett (or Fedor) for steroid usage. I really hope that Fedor has never used steroids, but it could be a logical reason to avoid the UFC (if Fedor used them).

Crashsti · 10-17-2007, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saskabush

Sub, why do you have to keep saying that Fedor is avoiding big fights? That is complete biased speculation and until we hear the exact details of his contract negotiations with the UFC it will remain as biased speculation. I know you are angry that he didn't sign with the UFC but don't you think it is a bit foolish to make so many baseless accusations repeatedly?

Fedor turned down a Bodogfight match with a true heavyweight in Jeff Monson to fight a bulked up Matt Lindland who usually fights at 185. Is this not avoiding a big fight???????

Saskabush · 10-17-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

Fedor turned down a Bodogfight match with a true heavyweight in Jeff Monson to fight a bulked up Matt Lindland who usually fights at 185. Is this not avoiding a big fight???????

I didn't hear that he turned down a fight with Monson, do you have a source on this? Besides, Lindland at 185 is more dangerous than Monson at 265 imho.

Gooner · 10-17-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

How do YOU know it would have been declined? Couture is NOT 24 years old. Nor is Couture 31 like Fedor. Couture is 44 and he does NOT have many fights left in his career. He knows that. And, Fedor knows that. NOW is the time to stike while the iron is still hot. A year from now or a few years from now will simply be too late.

I said "most likely" would have been declined.
And here's why...
-according to some rumours, Fedor was offered about 1,5 MILLION per fight.
-Randy was under contract that would have given him a payday of 250 K + some % of the PPV revenue, I believe.
-whatever the numbers were, it's clear that the difference was HUGE since Randy was so "insulted".

Do you really think the UFC would have happily tripled or even quadrupled the salary of someone they already had under contract?
Not to mention that Randy would have looked like a p***y had he said "I won't fight him unless you pay me more".

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

And, we can all use MMA-math, Gooner. Napao KO'd Cro-Cop. Couture TKO'd Napao. Couture beat Sylvia. Sylvia had wins over Andre Arlovski. It's a vicious MMA-math circle.

It has nothing to do with MMA-math, subgenius.
My point was Randy's record.
Oh, Randy's old, so Fedor needs to fight him quick? He doesn't have many fights left? Meh, he still had 2 left in his contract. If he would have honored that contract, my guess is, no-one would have been asking for Fedor-Randy after just one fight anyway.

Randy's a legend, but he came out of retirement and won 2 fights.
An injured Sylvia and Gabriel Gonzaga.
With his record, that's just not enough. Let's not pretend that Randy was suddenly the biggest threat Fedor would have ever faced. The fight would have been big because Randy is a star. He was the champ and the face of the UFC. That's it. Not because Randy posed the biggest problems for Fedor.

Crashsti · 10-17-2007, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saskabush

I didn't hear that he turned down a fight with Monson, do you have a source on this? Besides, Lindland at 185 is more dangerous than Monson at 265 imho.

this took place last March i beleive. it was posted here at Fightforum with Jeff Monson himself stating the two would meet in Bodog. Later it came out that the fight would not be happening and that Fedor did'nt want to fight Jeff partially due to Jeff's loss to Tim Sylvia. Lindland was the replacement. as far as Lindland being more dangerous then Monson? You have to be kidding? Jeff is as strong as they come, a ground wizard and throws hard leather. In my opinion he posed a major danger to Fedor with Fedor being more close to Monson's size. Jeff has issues with taller opponents like Tim Sylvia and more recently Pedro Rizzo.

subgenius · 10-17-2007, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooner

I said "most likely" would have been declined.
And here's why...
-according to some rumours, Fedor was offered about 1,5 MILLION per fight.
-Randy was under contract that would have given him a payday of 250 K + some % of the PPV revenue, I believe.
-whatever the numbers were, it's clear that the difference was HUGE since Randy was so "insulted".

Do you really think the UFC would have happily tripled or even quadrupled the salary of someone they already had under contract?
Not to mention that Randy would have looked like a p***y had he said "I won't fight him unless you pay me more".

It has nothing to do with MMA-math.
My point was Randy's record.
Oh, Randy's old, so Fedor needs to fight him quick? He doesn't have many fights left? Meh, he still had 2 left in his contract. If he would have honored that contract, my guess is, no-one would have been asking for Fedor-Randy after just one fight anyway.

Randy's a legend, but he came out of retirement and won 2 fights.
An injured Sylvia and Gabriel Gonzaga.
With his record, that's just not enough. Let's not pretend that Randy was suddenly the biggest threat Fedor would have ever faced. The fight would have been big because Randy is a star. He was the champ and the face of the UFC. That's it. Not because Randy posed the biggest problems for Fedor.

I think you know that you used MMA-math on this one.

Fedor has been the PRIDE world HW champion since 2003. Four years. Randy has been the current UFC world HW champion for less than a year. Of course Fedor will get more cash in any fight with Couture. Any rational person should have seen that.

But, having said that, I bet that the UFC would have given Randy Couture a huge bonus to beat Fedor Emelianenko. Beating Fedor would have been the pinnacle of any fighter's career. And, I think that Randy Couture is the biggest threat to Fedor. I have said it before, nobody knows anything until the fighters fight. That's why they have the fights. To see what happens.

And, Sylvia can make excuses, I don't care. He got beat. And, Gonzaga did not fight himself. He fought Couture. And, Couture beat him. At the bottom line it says Couture won. And, those were two big fights. Where are the big fights for Fedor this year?

Gooner · 10-17-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

this took place last March i beleive. it was posted here at Fightforum with Jeff Monson himself stating the two would meet in Bodog. Later it came out that the fight would not be happening and that Fedor did'nt want to fight Jeff partially due to Jeff's loss to Tim Sylvia. Lindland was the replacement. as far as Lindland being more dangerous then Monson? You have to be kidding? Jeff is as strong as they come, a ground wizard and throws hard leather. In my opinion he posed a major danger to Fedor with Fedor being more close to Monson's size. Jeff has issues with taller opponents like Tim Sylvia and more recently Pedro Rizzo.

Are you sure that it was Fedor who wanted Lindland instead of Monson?
Or his manager/Bodog?

Monson more dangerous than Lindland? It's a toss-up imo.
Fedor/Bodog apparently felt that him facing an Olympic medalist would be a better draw than him facing Monson.

PS. Pedro Rizzo is really not that tall. Nor is he a top heavyweight.
Didn't stop him from finishing Monson.

Crashsti · 10-17-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooner

Are you sure that it was Fedor who wanted Lindland instead of Monson?
Or his manager/Bodog?

Monson more dangerous than Lindland? It's a toss-up imo.
Fedor/Bodog apparently felt that him facing an Olympic medalist would be a better draw than him facing Monson.

PS. Pedro Rizzo is really not that tall. Nor is he a top heavyweight.
Didn't stop him from finishing Monson.

you know, with all the things we've been hearing about Fedor's managers i would'nt be surprised if they wanted the switch. however i have exchanged emails on occasion with Monson and members of his camp and they said that it was Fedor who wanted Lindland. What that means exactly is anyones guess.

Gooner · 10-17-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

I think you know that you used MMA-math on this one.

No, I didn't.
And you repeating it doesn't make it so.

Gotta love the MMA-math card thrown around when you talk about fighters' accomplishments. I didn't say "Nog beat Barnett so he would beat Randy as well because Barnett beat him". Randy's last 4 fights at heavyweight...
2 TKO-losses. 2 wins. And between those sequences he got KO'd twice by a light heavyweight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Fedor has been the PRIDE world HW champion since 2003. Four years. Randy has been the current UFC world HW champion for less than a year. Of course Fedor will get more cash in any fight with Couture. Any rational person should have seen that.

But, having said that, I bet that the UFC would have given Randy Couture a huge bonus to beat Fedor Emelianenko. Beating Fedor would have been the pinnacle of any fighter's career. And, I think that Randy Couture is the biggest threat to Fedor. I have said it before, nobody knows anything until the fighters fight. That's why they have the fights. To see what happens.

And, Sylvia can make excuses, I don't care. He got beat. And, Gonzaga did not fight himself. He fought Couture. And, Couture beat him. At the bottom line it says Couture won. And, those were two big fights. Where are the big fights for Fedor this year?

Apparently this "huge bonus", which is pure speculation, wouldn't have been enough for him. And who can blame him, who would accept a term like that?
"Beat Fedor and we'll pay you some extra".

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about that.
I don't think Randy is in the top 3 as far as biggest threats Fedor has faced.

Randy himself said it was no "excuse" from Sylvia.
So, Fedor hasn't fought top competition this year... that doesn't mean he sucks all of a sudden.
Except to a few emotional flip-floppers apparently...

Crashsti · 10-17-2007, 02:36 PM

Randy is'nt the best and no Fedor does'nt suck. the point is that the fans want to see these guys fight, preferably against top competition. Top Competition meaning fighters who have remained active and had outstanding efforts against equally skilled talent. i don't want to see Fedor fight guys like Zulu or Mark Coleman or Matt Lindland. Randy on the other hand is differant, while not the best he is certainly the most interesting prospect in the division and the most interesting. How can an aging greco roman wrestler do against a fighter like Fedor? its an interesting question. Randy does'nt need to win anymore, its just amazing to see him still going. Fedor is 31 and has'nt really shown his stuff since beating Mirko. its like watching potential being flushed down the toilet.

Saskabush · 10-17-2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

this took place last March i beleive. it was posted here at Fightforum with Jeff Monson himself stating the two would meet in Bodog. Later it came out that the fight would not be happening and that Fedor did'nt want to fight Jeff partially due to Jeff's loss to Tim Sylvia. Lindland was the replacement. as far as Lindland being more dangerous then Monson? You have to be kidding? Jeff is as strong as they come, a ground wizard and throws hard leather. In my opinion he posed a major danger to Fedor with Fedor being more close to Monson's size. Jeff has issues with taller opponents like Tim Sylvia and more recently Pedro Rizzo.

Jeff is nowhere near a top 10 HW. Look no further than his last fight with Rizzo. He got TKO'd by an aged, out of shape striker. If Monson is such a ground wizard" why couldn't he take and keep Rizzo down? Why couldn't he submit Tim? If he has heavy hands why didn't any of his shots KO Rizzo? Better yet why doesn't he have any KO wins on his record? The biggest win of his career is against Fujita, other than that he has lost to all of the top talent that he has faced. I think it's easy to say that Lindland is the more dangerous fighter.