Interview with Ken Shamrock: Thoughts on Couture, White, Bisping! - Fight Forum - MMA - UFC - Boxing - K1

Dr.Chicago · 10-22-2007, 01:32 PM

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An Interview With Ken Shamrock

Posted by MMA Junkie on October 22, 2007

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Heavyweight champion Randy Couture isn’t the only UFC Hall of Famer who’s had a falling out with UFC President Dana White.

Before the UFC legend abruptly resigned from the UFC earlier this month, Ken Shamrock had his own issues with UFC management. After working to become the biggest name in mixed-martial arts — and becoming perhaps the first MMA superstar to get the sport international recognition — his relationship with the UFC soured to the point of being essentially nonexistent today.

MMAjunkie.com recently caught up with the MMA trailblazer to discuss his thoughts on Couture’s resignation, his own problems with the UFC, why a rumored fight with Michael Bisping never worked out, and even his open fighter tryouts he has set for Thursday.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: You’ve spent as much time with the UFC as just about anyone else. What was your reaction when you first heard the news that Randy Couture resigned from the UFC?

KEN SHAMROCK: It didn’t surprise me because of what they did to me. I basically sold my body to them. I mean I fought hurt all the time — and I got paid, of course… (UFC management) seems to think that the UFC is everything and that it doesn’t have to respect anybody. The guys who built this sport are thrown outside — the guys who were there before Dana White got there. Dana’s not a fighter, and he’s not a tough guy, and he walks around talking to people, treating people with disrespect, talks about people’s managers because he doesn’t like them. Randy Couture was an absolute gentleman in the sport. Myself, and Royce Gracie, and other people who developed the sport before Dana White ever got in there, he treats them like dog crap… The fans need to understand that the money that they’re putting into the UFC and spending is going into Dana White’s pocket and the Fertittas’ pocket. They made billions of dollars on this company, and they’re selling souls.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Kind of along those lines, I know Dana’s been quick to call it a retirement, though Randy’s saying it’s absolutely not a retirement. Did you go through that too? Did you feel like they were trying to force you into retirement?

KEN SHAMROCK: Absolutely. I mean that’s what everybody keeps asking me, ‘When are you coming out of retirement?’ I’m not retired. If I’ve ever seen a bully in my life — and I’ve seen a lot of bullies and I don’t like them — the UFC’s a bully. They push little organizations around, they talk bad about people that don’t march… in a line that they want them to march in. It’s just the way that they treat people man, it’s just sad, and the money that they’re making is going to them and not the talent. It’s the talent that is making them who they are. They’re not making it themselves; the talent is. But yet, they seem to think that it’s them. Randy Couture is a gentleman, a stand-up guy. For Dana White to say that he slapped his manager — and to think that Dana White is a promoter — what promotor goes around talking about someone’s talent whose made them millions of dollars and say that they slapped them? How immature is that?

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Why would the UFC be so quick to turn its back on Couture — or you for that matter?

KEN SHAMROCK: Well, it’s like this. I mean, yes, I was injured and I had a lot of things going on with myself, but I went in and fought anyways, and I lost. But, the things that I’d done prior to that, even when I was losing, I was selling more tickets than they had ever sold before. I was promoting the event, I was promoting the fight.. and there was absolutely no respect toward me as a person and as an employee of the company that did all this for them — none whatsoever. I’m not talking about the money. I’m just talking about the way that you’re treated. When this happened to Randy, it didn’t surprise me because they don’t have any respect for the talent. The only time they have respect for (fighters) is when they’re talking to their face and they have an event to do.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: After your final fight with Tito Ortiz (Oritz vs. Shamrock III in October 2006), did you tell the UFC that you wanted to keep the door open for a return?

KEN SHAMROCK: Well, the UFC breached my contract. I had one fight left on my contract, and they just told my agent and my attorney that they were terminating by contact for no reason.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: This was right at the time of that fight?

KEN SHAMROCK: Yeah, saying that my quality, my level of fighting can’t compete in the UFC. Buddy, they knew I had some injuries that I needed to let rest for a little bit so that I could come back and perform better. But the fights were coming back to back (in July and October 2006), and I was being put in these positions to where I had to fight. So, I did the fights. I had one fight left on my contract, and I wanted to make sure that this last fight that I had on the contact — that I was able to go in and be 100 percent. And then they cut my contract, which obviously is a breach.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: This past summer, there were some rumors of you possibly fighting Michael Bisping at UFC 75. What happened there? Had they talked to you about that?

KEN SHAMROCK: They never talked to me, but they talked to a reporter, and they talked to my agent and said the fight was offered to me. And then they (spun) it as if they never offered that fight. (Dana White) straight out lied to my agent — straight out lied to my agent — because he told a reporter and he also told my agent that that fight was offered if we wanted it. And I jumped at it because I knew, when they offered it, I would crush (Bisping). I saw him on ‘The Ultimate Fighter (3).’ He’s a good young talent. He’s going to be great one day, but he’s not where I’m at.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: You had mentioned that the UFC terminated your contract. Were they talking about a new contract for that Bisping fight?

KEN SHAMROCK: No. Like I said, I can’t go too much into that because we could have an ongoing process here.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: A lawsuit?

KEN SHAMROCK: I can’t go into it. It was definitely offered and they did breach my contract. I had one fight left. So, I mean, it’s Dana White thinking that he created the world, and everything in it, and he created the human race, and people should bow down to him and do what he says and be happy with it and like whatever he says.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Obviously, you deal with a lot of young fighters, real prospects. If one of the guys that’s under your wing came to you and said he was thinking about signing with the UFC, what would you tell that fighter?

KEN SHAMROCK: I would say absolutely do it. It’s a dream. I mean the UFC is a dream for fighters to be involved in. I was very fortunate to be the first champion, the first superfight champion in the UFC, the first heavyweight superfight champion, and you know, I was part of the history of making it where it’s at today. And I know that there’s a lot of young kids coming up wishing they could be there fighting because it is the SuperBowl of fights right now. I would tell them, go for it. Just because Dana and I — or, I should say Dana has a problem with me because I don’t have one with him; I have a problem with what he has done to me and the disrespect towards me, but I don’t have a problem with the UFC. The UFC is a great place for fighters to go and fight. You just have to be careful how your contracts and different things are being done so that you’re not going to be hosed in the end because, unfortunately, the things that have happened to me and have happened to other fighters — and now to Randy — kind of tells you the tall tale of what goes on behind the scenes with the organization and contracts and the way they treat their talent. So I would say, yes, definitely follow your dream. Just make sure you got somebody there to take care of you and make sure that you’re not being hosed.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Do you think Dana White sometimes acts more with his heart than his head?

KEN SHAMROCK: Yeah. One of the issues that Dana White has is the fact that he wants to own the universe. He doesn’t want anybody else to come in there and have competition, and he’s (said) many times that ‘I’m going to crush that organization’ or ‘I’m going to crush that person. They don’t need to F with me.‘

To be continued.....

Dr.Chicago · 10-22-2007, 01:33 PM

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MMAJUNKIE.COM: Has that happened with you?

KEN SHAMROCK: This is what caused Dana to let me go — because he had a vendetta with the International Fight League because he felt that they had stolen concepts or fights, or personnel of paperwork, or something. He tried to sue them. He lost in court, and that pissed him off. So, then I was going to put an IFL team together (in 2006) where I was going to be a coach, which was not against my (UFC) contract. There were no rules that I couldn’t corner my fighters in the IFL. I was going to go in the IFL and bring a team so some of my fighters could get some fights under their belt, get some exposure on TV because they weren’t going to get it with the UFC. They just weren’t there yet. So, Dana White tells me that if I go with the IFL, that he will not use me. I was like, ‘But I have a contract,’ and he said, ‘I’ll rip it up.’ I mean I’m like, ‘What are you talking about?’ I thought well OK, I’m going to respect his wishes right now because I don’t want to ruffle the feathers and maybe he’ll get over this or whatever, so I did my thing later on and promoted my own shows, and then I put the team together. I get my fighters out there, they’re getting TV exposure, and Dana White cuts my contract. He cuts my contract and doesn’t give me a reason why. Obviously we know why. That’s personal. It’s nothing to do with business… He was pissed off because he had some employees who went to work for the IFL. And he said this to other people about the IFL that their scumbags, that they’re no good, and that they’re thieves and he’s going to crush them and that if anybody works for them, they won’t fight in the UFC. That to me is absolutely ridiculous. It’s ridiculous. It’s like saying he’s going to bitch slap Randy Couture’s agent — like he’s going to fight Tito Ortiz. What is this man doing?

MMAJUNKIE.COM: You know the industry as well as anyone? Will the UFC ever have any real competition?

KEN SHAMROCK: I just want people to really understand that Dana White is not the driving force behind the UFC. I know everybody’s going to say he is and put him out in the front because he’s the guy that’s going to get… the shaft if anything goes wrong, but it’s (Frank and Lorenzo Fertitta) really behind the UFC… Anyway, organizations that are going to come up and have to compete with them are going to have to have deep pockets, and they’re going to have to bring in big talent. They’re going to have to go in there and do what Dana White is doing to everybody else and buy up the talent. They’re going to have to go out and spend a lot of money, get that talent locked up and put on their event. Dana White went out and bought all the talent. He’s crushed everybody that’s tried to come up because they have the money to do it, so it’s going to take somebody with a lot of money in their pockets.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: I’ve got to ask. Are we going to see you fight again any time soon?

KEN SHAMROCK: Yeah. I just want to be part of a company that’s going places and treating fighters the right way. No place is perfect because all organizations are going to have issues. But you want to go somewhere where you want to put in your blood, sweat and tears — a place that respects the fighters and the fans.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: So you don’t feel the UFC is that type of company? They don’t reward that type of loyalty?

KEN SHAMROCK: Well yeah. The track record shows it. You’ve got how many hall-of-famers in the UFC? How many are still there working or doing something with them? Dana White has forced them all out. He doesn’t want them there.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: You make a really good point.

KEN SHAMROCK: Any of the UFC guys that are in the hall-of-fame are not there. Why is that? Every organization — baseball, football, boxing, you name it — when you’ve got a guy that’s made billions of dollars… they’re working for them. There are opportunities there to get a job in those sports. (The UFC) has nobody. They have pushed them all out. These are the people that built the organization, not Dana White. These fighters did.. They sacrificed family time, and they sacrificed their personal-life time. They got paid; we made money no question. But money does not give you a right to disrespect and sell them out and treat them like dirt. That doesn’t give you a right to do that. (Dana’s) done that to everybody that has built that organization and has brought it to where it’s at now. Dana White has turned his back on them.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Let’s switch gears and talk about your new gig with the International Fight League. You’ll be coaching a team. Can you tell me about the upcoming tryouts?

KEN SHAMROCK: We’ve got tryouts on (Oct. 25), and it’s to be on the Lion’s Den Team and also the IFL Lions and also we have team fights overseas, so we’re looking for people that want to join our teams because we have lot of spots open. We have a lot of events going on, so it’s a great opportunity for any young kids out there who are looking to break into this business. We’re looking for talent in all weight classes.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: What kind of fighters are you looking for. Veterans or youngsters?

KEN SHAMROCK: We’re looking for both. We’re looking for guys that can jump in and get it on right now. We’re also looking for guys that are just starting out in the business that we can grow and build into champions.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: Even if they don’t have a whole lot of experience, you’ll still consider guys like that?

KEN SHAMROCK: Yeah… I promote shows where guys have no fights, or they’ve only had about four fights, and also a range of guys from who have gotten a lot of fights. We would definitely give them experience in the ring. If they have the talent, and they have the desire to be a champion, man, we can train them.

MMAJUNKIE.COM: What was it about the IFL that made you want to get involved with them?

KEN SHAMROCK: I liked the concept of it where you got five guys going in different weight classes and they’re all training together. Each fight depends on whether or not you’re going to move into the next round and be able to compete for that final championship at the end of the year as a team. So, everybody works hard depending on each other. It’s a real camaraderie thing, they really bond, and they start working well together. And also, anybody on any team who is undefeated or has done well gets the opportunity to compete for a belt at the end of the year and individual belt in each weight class — the Grand Prix. So, it’s a real good concept.

Lots of bashing.. But still interesting!

KungFuGrip · 10-22-2007, 01:52 PM

Geez, how many others have had these kinds of problems in the ufc?
I do remember Ken saying in the octagon after the 3rd and final Tito fight, that he is done fighting and can't keep up with these young guys anymore.
Thanks again for the good read Doc.

StratTone · 10-22-2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Chicago

To be continued.....

Ok, this is all wrong to me. Dana did put the UFC where it is. The fighters have always fought because they liked to fight and not for the money but they want to get all the rewards of the money because there the "talent" but when the UFC had nothing there was Dana and the Fertetties. I think for an over the hill fighter like Ken he should be glad for all the pay days he got with such a horrible losing streak. I don't see how americans think like this sometimes. I do understand that a fighter should be paid well but damn if you ask me Ken was losing evertime he fought and his paychecks kept getting higher. What in the world does he have to complain about. Even if you go my Ken's own words....."its about the talent" Well Ken you didn't have the talent so you were let go. It isn't always about putting people in the seats. This isn't a show it is a compitition and when you start to lose 7 in a row or however what are they suppose to do I think they kept Ken around for a long time and did him a favor. Part of running a huge company like the UFC is making huge decisions and sometimes you have to hurt feelings to run the buisness. Am I way off here??

ge master · 11-08-2007, 02:27 AM

I'm surprised this article passed me by. I missed it, but wow, what a great read! I guess I've had impressions about Shamrock, mostly negative. You always hear this and that. Thing is, he sounds intelligent and well spoken. Basically he's not the meathead I was thinking. I'm seeing it his way. It must be really hard to do what he's done, and then be treated that way. I respect him even more based on his being hurt constantly for fights. I appreciate an honest interview. That was. Think about it. What a crap way to end your career. Getting your last fight pulled from you! The organization saying sorry buddy, you won't be in our octagon again. Go head sue us, take a few thousand dollars, but you still won't see another fight. Wow, complete disrepect. I do now see where the UFC is going. It's going down a path that makes it ripe for plucking. The fact is, like Ken says, someone with deep pockets is needed. That day will come sooner than later I'm thinking. UFC iron out the kinks of the sport and another organization will take their fighters. I see that happening. The reason it will happen is because disrespecting your employees when you employ 95% of the workforce means that when the employees are given another option, they will jump ship.

Crazy · 11-08-2007, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratTone

Ok, this is all wrong to me. Dana did put the UFC where it is. The fighters have always fought because they liked to fight and not for the money but they want to get all the rewards of the money because there the "talent" but when the UFC had nothing there was Dana and the Fertetties. I think for an over the hill fighter like Ken he should be glad for all the pay days he got with such a horrible losing streak. I don't see how americans think like this sometimes. I do understand that a fighter should be paid well but damn if you ask me Ken was losing evertime he fought and his paychecks kept getting higher. What in the world does he have to complain about. Even if you go my Ken's own words....."its about the talent" Well Ken you didn't have the talent so you were let go. It isn't always about putting people in the seats. This isn't a show it is a compitition and when you start to lose 7 in a row or however what are they suppose to do I think they kept Ken around for a long time and did him a favor. Part of running a huge company like the UFC is making huge decisions and sometimes you have to hurt feelings to run the buisness. Am I way off here??

Well, I am one of the few people here that says Randy can resign from his contract. UFC and most people at this forum says no. why?
Beacause he should honer his contract.

I am just waiting for all the good arguments for why UFC don`t need to honer the contract? Why can UFC put guys with one match left on hold so they can`t escape? The way they treat people make me puke.

Thank God Fedor decided to stay away from them.
A good thing that Randy is going aswell.

LEFTHIGHKICK · 11-08-2007, 05:50 AM

UFC should have taken the smart way out ending his contract by putting him in an undercard fight? , surely he's good enough for an undercard fight?

Saskabush · 11-08-2007, 08:57 AM

Good read. He doesn't complain about money like Randy did but he elaborated well on the lack of respect that the UFC shows its fighters. Down with Dana!

T-Bone · 11-08-2007, 09:00 AM

Thanks Doc.

Ken articulated his thoughts pretty well and I'm glad he said he wouldn't discourage fighters from entering the UFC.

I wonder how the fighters' push for a union will go.

Dr.Chicago · 11-08-2007, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Bone

Thanks Doc.

You're welcome T!

Bottomline is, UFC is the no.1 organization right now.. Not even a close competitor exists.. They offer the most lucrative deals to the top elite fighters who are themselves wanna fight with UFC for the money and the recognition..

But, the fighters MUST realize that they should NOT sign up with those jerks unless it's for a short term contract! I mean there's no need to be taken advantage of, abused, or disrespected..

I admire what Ken has said with all honesty.. and I believe he stated facts..

I admire what Randy did, although lots of people questioned his motives, I still believe in him!

I admire what Fedor did.. He didn't wanna be a slave or a string puppet..

I admire what Dan Hendo is doing.. He signed a short term contract.. And he already got the ball.. He's playing his game right now..

I pray everyday that fighters learn from all of that.. It'll be great for them, for the sport, and of course us the fans!!

asronn · 11-08-2007, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy

Well, I am one of the few people here that says Randy can resign from his contract. UFC and most people at this forum says no. why?
Beacause he should honer his contract.

I am just waiting for all the good arguments for why UFC don`t need to honer the contract? Why can UFC put guys with one match left on hold so they can`t escape? The way they treat people make me puke.

Thank God Fedor decided to stay away from them.
A good thing that Randy is going aswell.

I agree with you 100% all this Dana White loving is making me sick to my stomach. It does paint a real picture when you have a hall a fame and every member of that Hall of Fame is working for another organization

Normo · 11-08-2007, 11:33 AM

I wouldnt trust everything he says... a lot of people have gotten sour when they have left / been booted out.

Hulk Hogan in the WWE - he hates them / Vince Mcmahon now.
Randy Couture in the UFC
Many boxes I bet hate Don King, etc

Everyone gives abuse to their old companies

majestyk1976 · 11-08-2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy

Well, I am one of the few people here that says Randy can resign from his contract. UFC and most people at this forum says no. why?
Beacause he should honer his contract.

I am just waiting for all the good arguments for why UFC don`t need to honer the contract? Why can UFC put guys with one match left on hold so they can`t escape? The way they treat people make me puke.

Thank God Fedor decided to stay away from them.
A good thing that Randy is going aswell.

You can't always believe ONE side of the story as we've all seen by now how the UFC countered the Randy situation.
No disrespect, I really hope you don't watch the UFC as much as you bash it.
As far as Fedor, I think he's a awesome fighter but who is he going to fight in M1? Unfortunately, Dana is correct by saying Fedor hasn't fought any Top rated heavyweights of late. I would've enjoyed seeing him fight some top names in the UFC.

T-Bone · 11-08-2007, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Normo

I wouldnt trust everything he says... a lot of people have gotten sour when they have left / been booted out.

Hulk Hogan in the WWE - he hates them / Vince Mcmahon now.
Randy Couture in the UFC
Many boxes I bet hate Don King, etc

Everyone gives abuse to their old companies

I think you're helping Ken out by mentioning 'people' like McMahon & Don King.

Normo · 11-08-2007, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Bone

I think you're helping Ken out by mentioning 'people' like McMahon & Don King.

Yeah but when they are in the sport / organisation they love them, like Hulk Hogan had a good bond with Mcmahon and they were good friends. Now he isnt in the WWE he slags him off, etc

Toshinden · 11-08-2007, 02:48 PM

Really good read, I always love Ken's interviews. People say a lot of bad stuff about him, and it always tends to overshadow what kind of person he actually is. He is all about respect, and he tells things like they are, which is what I like about him. If he's not getting respect from someone, he's not gonna give them any, and that's completely fair in my opinion. He's put up with a lot of crap over the years, and not just from Dana White.

Crazy · 11-08-2007, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majestyk1976

You can't always believe ONE side of the story as we've all seen by now how the UFC countered the Randy situation.
No disrespect, I really hope you don't watch the UFC as much as you bash it.
As far as Fedor, I think he's a awesome fighter but who is he going to fight in M1? Unfortunately, Dana is correct by saying Fedor hasn't fought any Top rated heavyweights of late. I would've enjoyed seeing him fight some top names in the UFC.

I have no idea who he will fight in M-1 but it might be Barnett which signed with m-1. How many HW are there in UFC? Like 10? At least there is not more then 10 good once. I honestly believe there are more then 10 good HW in the world. So I guess we will have to wait and see who he will fight and I know one thing for sure. I am gonna see that fight

There are many fighters having one match left like Dan Henderson/AA that M1 can try to buy. They have just started and already they have the best HW in the world. I believe they can do good over time.