UFC 81: Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir

Crazy · 12-03-2007, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulla

No doubt but isnt this the sort of match up that Pride were always bashed for, or M1 are getting bashed for now?

Im gonna go out on a limb and say this match is as bad as Fedor v Hong Man Choi.

I would say this one is worse since HMC is actually a fighter in K1 allready.
HMC have at least two great wins allready over Semmy and mighty mo.
Lesnar have had one fight for Heros where he meet a guy who tapped out for getting punched in his face.

Edit: this does not mean Lesnar can`t win, iit is just me saying that HMC have been in some wars and Lesnar have not.

Mulla · 12-03-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

i would'nt go that far. Mir is a past champ but has'nt shown those qualities in a long time. Fedor, despite his long absence never showed signs of slowing down. Lesnar, unlike Hong Man Choi, at least has a background in wrestling.

Thats the point I was trying to make...at least the Fedor v HMC fight is a former Pride HW champ (and arguably no.1 HW in the world) fighting a legit K1 kickboxer (who has a win over the current K1 champ).

Lesnar v Mir is basically an ex-HW champ who's fallen off recently fighting an ex-amateur and pro wrestler.

IMO The Fedor v HMC fight is more compelling than Mir/Lesnar.

Crashsti · 12-03-2007, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulla

Thats the point I was trying to make...at least the Fedor v HMC fight is a former Pride HW champ (and arguably no.1 HW in the world) fighting a K1 kickboxer (who has a win over the current K1 champ).

Lesnar v Mir is basically an ex-HW champ who's fallen off recently fighting an ex-college and WWE wrestler.

IMO The Fedor v HMC fight is more compelling than Mir/Lesnar.

i look at it from the other side. Mir vs. Lesnar is more realistic. Mir has a real chance of losing since Lesnar is stronger in the athleticism department. He has also been complimenting his wrestling with BJJ and other MMA skills. Fedor on the other hand would be facing a strictly standup fighter who would be like a fish out of water on the ground. Much like Semmy Schilt was when he fought MMA. Also, Fedor should be facing the best in the world while Mir has been struggling with B level fighters ever since his return. I expect more from Fedor and i expect Mir to take whatever he can get.

Mulla · 12-03-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

i look at it from the other side. Mir vs. Lesnar is more realistic. Mir has a real chance of losing since Lesnar is stronger in the athleticism department. He has also been complimenting his wrestling with BJJ and other MMA skills. Fedor on the other hand would be facing a strictly standup fighter who would be like a fish out of water on the ground. Much like Semmy Schilt was when he fought MMA. Also, Fedor should be facing the best in the world while Mir has been struggling with B level fighters ever since his return. I expect more from Fedor and i expect Mir to take whatever he can get.

I agree with this sentence completely mate, which is why I cant believe UFC are selling it as a main event.

I agree when you say you expect more from Fedor. I do too, but I also expect more from the 'Superbowl of MMA'.

Crashsti · 12-03-2007, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulla

I agree with this sentence completely mate, which is why I cant believe UFC are selling it as a main event.

I agree when you say you expect more from Fedor. I do too, but I also expect more from the 'Superbowl of MMA'.

Very true, this certainly should not be the main event. But like i said, it will draw viewers just the same. I am sure the UFC is looking to attract the very lucrative WWE market by promoting this fight. The possibilties are huge. But yes, as a long time fan of the sport and not the spectacle i also am not overly impressed with the match making.

FatCat · 12-03-2007, 12:42 PM

I recently read an interview (in Fight Magazine I believe) that had a quote from Pat Milletich. He said (I'm paraphrasing a bit) that there is nobody in the world that can stop Brock Lesnar from taking them down and he's 100% sure he'll be a champion in a few years if he sticks with it. I don't see anyone singing those praises of HMC.

Mir is a former champ and still has a huge following and we all know how popular Brock is. This is a better main event than Evans vs. Bisping IMO, but still a bit weak in the eyes of the hardcore fans. Casual fans will eat this up though.

Ninjamonkey · 12-03-2007, 12:51 PM

There are some rumors floating around that Sylvia/Nog fight will be put on this card. It would make sense to add Sylvia and Nog to headline this card since ufc 80 and ufc 82 already have solid main events. Also if this fight is to happen, it is suppose to be in early 08. I guess we have to wait and see, but if Mir/Lesnar is the main event, I will probably be passing on this card as the undercard is just average so far going by MMAweekly's rumored matches.

UFC 81: FEBRUARY 2, 2008 IN LAS VEGAS, NEVADA
venue: MGM Grand Garden Arena

-Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir
-Nathan Marquardt (#7 Middleweight in the World)* vs. Thales Leites
-Tyson Griffin vs. Gleison Tibau
-Alan Belcher vs. Ricardo Almeida
-David Heath vs. Andre Gusmao

Toshinden · 12-03-2007, 12:55 PM

Honestly, I don't even mind this main event - yeah, I think it'll be way better than the Bisping/Evans fight, even if Lesnar gets subbed in round 1. If it doesn't turn out to be a good match, the UFC will know for next time, and I can almost guarantee you that Lesnar will get at least 1 retry if he loses.

Bomber · 12-03-2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arelius

Already been posted I think, but hey.

Oops, I thought it was still a rumour but that thread quoted the UFC as a source. It didn't come up when I searched for some reason.

Mods, feel free to roll this into the other Mir-Lesnar thread.

Bomber · 12-03-2007, 02:08 PM

Does anyone else think they chose Mir to protect Lesnar from fighting a striker?

I bet the UFC is hoping this will be a win for Lesnar so they can promote the guy to WWE fans, but this is a good opportunity for Frank to prove he's still a viable MMA fighter. He could get some good exposure here.

KungFuGrip · 12-03-2007, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

Does anyone else think they chose Mir to protect Lesnar from fighting a striker?

I bet the UFC is hoping this will be a win for Lesnar so they can promote the guy to WWE fans, but this is a good opportunity for Frank to prove he's still a viable MMA fighter. He could get some good exposure here.

Yes and No. White will spin this in anyway. If Mir wins it gives credability that mma is for real and is not pro wrestling at all. If Brock wins, like you said, the UFC will promote to WWE fans more.

I think giving Brock a ground guy really tests him, cause he is basically a wrestler, so it will probaly go to the ground where Mir is very good. I thought this fight was right on, when I first heard about it.

Crazy · 12-03-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

i look at it from the other side. Mir vs. Lesnar is more realistic. Mir has a real chance of losing since Lesnar is stronger in the athleticism department. He has also been complimenting his wrestling with BJJ and other MMA skills. Fedor on the other hand would be facing a strictly standup fighter who would be like a fish out of water on the ground. Much like Semmy Schilt was when he fought MMA. Also, Fedor should be facing the best in the world while Mir has been struggling with B level fighters ever since his return. I expect more from Fedor and i expect Mir to take whatever he can get.

Of topic though but I think Semmy would be top 5 if he came back to MMA today. HE have changed a lot the last few years. I seen worse on the ground to be houunest. He surviced 15 minutes with Fedor after all but you all forgot that maybe?

Just a reminder.

Gygax · 12-04-2007, 09:38 AM

stevep94 · 12-04-2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

Fight Forum will be flooded by WWE fans looking to represent thier man.

Not 100% sure that will be the case..... the last time this man "competed" in the WWE he was soundly booed!!!

SteveP

Crashsti · 12-04-2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy

Of topic though but I think Semmy would be top 5 if he came back to MMA today. HE have changed a lot the last few years. I seen worse on the ground to be houunest. He surviced 15 minutes with Fedor after all but you all forgot that maybe?

Just a reminder.

Semmy is a good fighter. And Yes, i do remember that fight. It was spent mostly on the ground with Fedor dropping hammer fists on Semmy's face for 15 minutes.

Pitbull · 12-04-2007, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatCatMC

I recently read an interview (in Fight Magazine I believe) that had a quote from Pat Milletich. He said (I'm paraphrasing a bit) that there is nobody in the world that can stop Brock Lesnar from taking them down and he's 100% sure he'll be a champion in a few years if he sticks with it. I don't see anyone singing those praises of HMC.

Thanks so much for posting this, FCMC.

This is exactly the reason why I don't want to see Lesnar in the UFC.

Why would I want to see predictable fights?

My summary of Lesnar's future fights...

Lesnar takes down Fighter X. Fighter X attempts a few submissions, Lesnar is able to fight them off. Lesnar delivers some GNP. Lesnar wins by referee stoppage.

So long as Lesnar has good submission defense and is able to take a punch, he will be too strong and too athletic to beat.

I pray that I'm completely wrong and that his fights are competitive, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Crashsti · 12-04-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitbull

Thanks so much for posting this, FCMC.

This is exactly the reason why I don't want to see Lesnar in the UFC.

Why would I want to see predictable fights?

My summary of Lesnar's future fights...

Lesnar takes down Fighter X. Fighter X attempts a few submissions, Lesnar is able to fight them off. Lesnar delivers some GNP. Lesnar wins by referee stoppage.

So long as Lesnar has good submission defense and is able to take a punch, he will be too strong and too athletic to beat.

I pray that I'm completely wrong and that his fights are competitive, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

there is an easy solution to this. The athletic commisions need to allow knees to the head of a downed opponent. It was legal in Pride and from all i've read the only example i have heard of that crossed the line was Coleman vs. Goes and that was due mostly to Coleman outweighing Goes by some 30 pounds. Knees to the head of a downed opponent will kill the effectiveness of the double leg takedown.

mxfuel · 12-04-2007, 01:31 PM

I have no problem with brock winning this way. Can't complain when the fight isn't left to the judges. His opponets know his game plan. Try to stop it if you don't like it.

Dana has said in interviews that he would also like the knees to the head to stop the take down from wrestlers.

OneBigThrow · 12-04-2007, 01:49 PM

knees to the head of downed opponents will definitely help "lay and prayers" who are good at maintaining dominant position

so thats also a plus, guys like sherk and rashad will have the opportunity to finish more fights without risking as many subs

DoQ1 · 12-04-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rush

I'm dreading this. Guess I better get prepared for a lot of LnP....

LnP from Lesnar maybe depending on his gas.

Mir will work on the ground if he has any Pride or confidence in his craft he will sub this man. Little no BJJ/JJ Lesnar will have to maintain top position and keep his limbs and head "out of the street" so to speak.

Mir may not have everything he had before the crash, but he has enough BJJ to at least end up looking like Gurgel does after all his decisions.

As for Brock I can't help but feel like he is being used like Giant Silva or Zulu or Sapp. Sideshow type stuff only with more athleticism and a great wrestling pedigree.

Hopefully, Mir subs him early so people will realize this is a difficult sport and technique (when used) is superior to strength. If not then why study martial arts at all? Just juice up work out hard and bull people over right. I really am intrigued to see it but not opptimistic it will be all that exciting.