Forrest top contender!? Give me a break

earvinarp · 12-11-2007, 11:22 AM

Am I the only one who believes the UFC is way over the hill with baby boy Forrest Griffin?

I mean, first we have the huge announcement bs on the Huerta-Guida card and that turns out to be that Griffin will be a coach in TUF(!!!!) (what's so huge about that? Is the UFC's perception of Griffin's entirely messed up?). Second, they keep calling him top contender when, in reality, he has lost the 2 fights he has had against people who were supposed to be [sort of] top LHWs (Ortiz and Jardine). And third, aside from Rua and an injured Bonnar, his victories in the UFC are all against nobodies.

People will say that the Shogun thing was a big deal but that was a too elaborate victory over the worse Rua we have ever seen. On top of that, people (including White) have been adamant to devalue the PRIDE folks so, by UFC standards, even that is not that big of a win.

I think Griffin is the perfect example of a guy who's been blown out of proportion by an organization that is trying to milk as much money out of him as possible. He was hell lucky that Shogun never took him seriously and, since that fight, his popularity has been disproportionate to his achievements.

I, for one, cannot wait until he fights an [in-shape] true top LHW. I would love to see him against Hendo, Jackson or Machida. It would be Ortiz round 1 all over again, but for three (or five) rounds.

F_B · 12-11-2007, 11:37 AM

I don't think Griffin is qualified to be coach of his own TUF team. I doubt the fighters will respect him either.

OneBigThrow · 12-11-2007, 11:45 AM

^yea thats the only thing i dont like about the whole thing...i dont think he will be a very effective coach when he himself is still learning so much

as far as a title shot...meh, hes really the option that makes the most sense aside from jardine which is a debate within itself

stillstanding · 12-11-2007, 12:04 PM

you really don't give Griffin enough respect. Why do you bash on him so much anyway? I mean come on. NOT TOP CONDENDER?! Whatever, he beat Shogun, I don't care about Shogun not coming up to fight and his cardio was bad whatever, Forrest won round one and would probably do the same thing again. Against Tito, he was just out of the show, he was raw and unexperienced. Look at the Griffin then and the Griffin now and tell me that he hasn't changed. Like it or not Forrest is a top contender.

earvinarp · 12-11-2007, 12:07 PM

Please point out the actual bashing for me and differentiate it from stating an opinion.

MTKrav911 · 12-11-2007, 12:10 PM

He beat Shogun. Shogun was highly touted as the Worlds #1 LHW.

As much as MMA fans bitch about The UFC not having official rankings it's odd to me that nobody considers Forrest #1 contender.

He didnt just beat Shogun. He tapped him out. That's pretty convincing IMO.

And please don't start the Shogun had a bad knee garbage going into that fight.

earvinarp · 12-11-2007, 12:14 PM

We'll go over and over it in two different threads. Shoung looked awful even before the fight and Griffin was only able to finish him when a ten year old would have too, with Shogun exhausted, injured, out of shape and pathetically uncommitted.

stillstanding · 12-11-2007, 12:20 PM

wow, just wow. Whatever makes you sleep at night buddy. Its not an opinion that he won round one of that fight against Shogun and honestly it is a fact that Forrest was raw in the fight against Tito, he was still inexperienced. And opinion or not, tell me that he hasn't improved through his last fights. Honestly, say he didn't. You are just anti-TUF and you will put down anything from it. It appears that because Griffin is popular you hate him so. Just my observation. I understand that you don't like him for whipping up on your boy and thats fine, i respect that. But saying he doesn't belong and that he is not a contender is insulting.

earvinarp · 12-11-2007, 12:29 PM

I don't believe he is much improved since he left TUF season one, to be honest. He is the same jumpy, powerless, big dude, who plays off his opponent as he is incapable of dictating the fight, unless he is fighting a low level opponent such as Ramirez.

He was far from impressive and defeated against Tito, far from impressive in his second fight against Bonnar, ko'ed against Jardine, very far from impressive (as he would himself say) against Ramirez and he showcased nothing against [once again] the worst Shogun ever seen in a ring.

It is my opinion and it is unpopular in this forum but no, I don't think he should be a contender and I don't think he is anywhere near Jackson, Hendo or Machida.

stillstanding · 12-11-2007, 12:31 PM

I guess we are watching different fights, I respect your opinion even though it may be unpopular. I just totally believe in the exact opposite what you are saying. lol

majestyk1976 · 12-11-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneBigThrow

^yea thats the only thing i dont like about the whole thing...i dont think he will be a very effective coach when he himself is still learning so much

as far as a title shot...meh, hes really the option that makes the most sense aside from jardine which is a debate within itself

Yeah, that does makes sense. Aside from that quick TKO and rip decision w/ Bonnar, Jardin has been consistent. So much for the rumor floating around here the winner of Evans VS Bisping gets the title shot. Maybe it was because of the lackluster performace. *yawn*

Mouth For War · 12-11-2007, 12:42 PM

i would rather forrest get the title shot rather then rashad.

The_Iceman · 12-11-2007, 12:53 PM

I think he deserves to be there. Sure he "lost" to Tito (Personally,I think he won that fight) and got KO'd by Jardine (sh!t happens sometimes, everyone gets caught). But the man came back to his winning ways after that and submitted one the best 205 guys in the world, Shogun Rua. Why don't people debate on how Tito Ortiz became the #1 contender by beating up an old Ken Shamrock twice?

Ring_Raider_07 · 12-11-2007, 01:08 PM

I'm not 100% sure if its a good idea to have Griffin on TUF, yet. I'll agree that he's much improved, but I dunno if he's ready to coach a team.

Saskabush · 12-11-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earvinarp

Am I the only one who believes the UFC is way over the hill with baby boy Forrest Griffin?

I mean, first we have the huge announcement bs on the Huerta-Guida card and that turns out to be that Griffin will be a coach in TUF(!!!!) (what's so huge about that? Is the UFC's perception of Griffin's entirely messed up?). Second, they keep calling him top contender when, in reality, he has lost the 2 fights he has had against people who were supposed to be [sort of] top LHWs (Ortiz and Jardine). And third, aside from Rua and an injured Bonnar, his victories in the UFC are all against nobodies.

People will say that the Shogun thing was a big deal but that was a too elaborate victory over the worse Rua we have ever seen. On top of that, people (including White) have been adamant to devalue the PRIDE folks so, by UFC standards, even that is not that big of a win.

I think Griffin is the perfect example of a guy who's been blown out of proportion by an organization that is trying to milk as much money out of him as possible. He was hell lucky that Shogun never took him seriously and, since that fight, his popularity has been disproportionate to his achievements.

I, for one, cannot wait until he fights an [in-shape] true top LHW. I would love to see him against Hendo, Jackson or Machida. It would be Ortiz round 1 all over again, but for three (or five) rounds.

Good post, I agree 100%. He is hugely overrated, I can't wait until an in shape Shogun gets a rematch with him.

Crashsti · 12-11-2007, 01:14 PM

Forrest has worked very hard to be where he is. So i am having trouble understanding how you can say he has'nt improved? All you have to do is compare Bonnar v. Griffin I & II. Its glaringly obvious that his striking is crisper and more technical while Bonnar looked like an exact repeat of thier first fight. Even looking at his lackluster fight with Ramirez he showed a technical side that you did'nt see from Forrest during his time on TUF. As for his beating an unprepared Shogun? Forrest came in ready for 3 hard rounds while Shogun did not. Forrest earned that win. Does this make him a contender? I think anytime you can finish an opponent who is so highly recognized as being top 3 in the world, if not the best LHW you deserve a chance. Well know if he was'nt ready at the end of his fight with Rampage.

marnold · 12-11-2007, 01:16 PM

Yeah, I buy Forrest as the top contender, but I don't believe he can beat the best competition, but I do believe he can beat the better competition.

earvinarp · 12-11-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

Forrest has worked very hard to be where he is. So i am having trouble understanding how you can say he has'nt improved? All you have to do is compare Bonnar v. Griffin I & II. Its glaringly obvious that his striking is crisper and more technical while Bonnar looked like an exact repeat of thier first fight. Even looking at his lackluster fight with Ramirez he showed a technical side that you did'nt see from Forrest during his time on TUF. As for his beating an unprepared Shogun? Forrest came in ready for 3 hard rounds while Shogun did not. Forrest earned that win. Does this make him a contender? I think anytime you can finish an opponent who is so highly recognized as being top 3 in the world, if not the best LHW you deserve a chance. Well know if he was'nt ready at the end of his fight with Rampage.

I just find it so cynical on the part of the UFC and White to go out and say that PRIDE was not that great and that Fedor has not proved he's the best out there, but then they think it is fair to give Griffin a title shot because he defeated a "top 3 LHW" in the world. Is it only me who perceives a double standard here?

Crashsti · 12-11-2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earvinarp

I just find it so cynical on the part of the UFC and White to go out and say that PRIDE was not that great and that Fedor has not proved he's the best out there, but then they think it is fair to give Griffin a title shot because he defeated a "top 3 LHW" in the world. Is it only me who perceives a double standard here?

I don't pay attention to how the UFC speaks about former Pride fighters. Anyone who watched Pride knows who the top guys were in that promotion. Shogun is among the best and Dana knows it but plays to the media and the casual fan who does'nt know any better. As for Griffin's title shot? i still say he deserves it. Are there other guys who deserve it? Of course, but Dana does'nt play it straight and some contenders are going to be passed by while others get thier shot.

mlabelle · 12-11-2007, 03:47 PM

Concerning the LHW Title shot, the UFC wanted to put Rampage becuze he's a funny dude, so they had to fidn a LHW who is a top contender and who has a good reputation and has charism becuze its a TV show...

Who are the top Contenders in LHW division?
Chuck? hell no with his 2 lost
Wanderlai? Same
Houston Alexander? No he just got TKO
Jardine? He lost against Houston a few mouth ago
Hendo? He just lost against Rampage
Griffin? He won against Shotgun (imo it didn't worth much BUT THATS MY OPINION). Lost against Jardine tho...
Rashad? Well he has no lost but he's still not a top contender
Thiago Silva: Almsot rdy for a title shot, make him fight a last fight agaisnt a big contender and then fight the LHW champion

Better put Griffin in a TV show then Silva