Rob "the saint" Emerson in the UFC. Criminals in the UFC, like or dislike it? - Fight Forum - MMA - UFC - Boxing - K1

ge master · 02-04-2008, 05:42 PM

Well I have had my previous thread deleted off the server which was a good thing. I wil clean up my presentation this time I promise.

We all know he plead guilty to being a gang leader of a group of thugs who would gang bash people at random. The footage of one beating was captured on surveillance camera.

So, here the question. Did it or does it bother you watching fighters who have sketchy pasts or guilty of crimes that involve violence against innocent people? I'm sure that the victims of Rob's group of thugs don't appreciate the UFC having him.

So, where should the UFC draw the line? Should they? Do you not care about the history of fighters even though their offenses are dispicable?

I'm a bit confused right, because Dana is so high and mighty on TUF about guys making the fighters look like a bunch of thugs? He kicks people off the show when they make the MMA fighters look like brainless thugs. So, we have Dana with a convicted criminal who lead a group of thugs who went on random beating sprees, as part of a PPV event. Seems very hypocritical to me. Almost sickingly hypocritical. Not even to mention "the saint" as his fighting name.

Having said all this. I think Rob is likely my favorite fighter all time on TUF. The guys seems tough as nails quite honestly and showed that he can bounce off the mat after taking a serious shot. I'm sure he's changed his ways and forgive and forget is what my wife is always telling me. Again, I'm just amazed at how hypocritical it seems of the UFC to have him in their organization. I hope Dana has a warm heart and can at least give Rob a chance to prove himself. He is a top notch fighter, so I see him rising to the top of the division quickly based on his PPV fight.

arelius · 02-04-2008, 05:57 PM

Well, IMO its like this....If you are a genuine criminal, meaning, you are constantly in and out of jail or prison, you are always in trouble with Johnny Law, you have no business in any professional sport.

However, if you got in a bit of trouble, took your spanks from the judge and cleaned up your attitude so be it. Chalk it up to "growing pains".

There is a huge difference between a "criminal" and somone who got in trouble. After all we are all human and can make poor decisions from time to time.

As a corrections officer my rule of thumb is you have no right to take anything from anyone else or inflict bodily harm to another in anyway. Outside of a ring or cage anyway

FightFan76 · 02-04-2008, 05:59 PM

I am not really sold on him making it to the top of any division right now based on any fight I have seen him in.

As far as the criminal thing goes, I dont know; people deserve to have the opportunity to change and if he has done that then I guess I have no problem w/ him being in the UFC. Having said that, I would give him a very short lease and would let him go at the 1st sign of trouble.....

lwbfl · 02-04-2008, 06:02 PM

I don't have a problem with it. I've been in corrections for over 12 years, and don't care for criminals very much. I also reallize that once they've paid thier dues they re-enter society and do all sorts of things that we non-convicted people do. Several of our fighters have been in jail or prison. It's their actions while they are in the game that counts.

Gooner · 02-04-2008, 06:08 PM

AFAIC he's paid for his crimes now, I don't know how banning him from the UFC could be justified.

UFC or MMA should draw the line where all the other sports draw the line imo.
We have convicted felons playing football, hockey, basketball... why should MMA be treated any differently? OK, some will say that MMA needs an extra clean image because of the nature of the sport, but I say **** that.

I wanna see the best fighters out there, and whether they've been convicted (and served their sentences) before, doesn't matter.
I know Aleks Emelianenko has a criminal record (not sure how severe crimes he's been convicted of)... what if his brother did? Would everyone want to ban him from fighting?

PS. just to make this thread more political and controversial, I totally disagree with the US policy of denying convicted felons of their voting rights.

Toshinden · 02-04-2008, 06:12 PM

This could potentially be a really deep subject... I don't want to be the one to start it, but there's the whole point about MMA or traditional Martial Arts in general being a great way to develop your real character. In most cases, people who train seriously, even if just for a short while, in those arts tend to develop discipline and respect on their own.

That being said, I can't say that I think the UFC should prohibit criminals from competing in their events... It's a touchy subject, since many jobs require criminal record checks, and a lot of them won't consider anybody with even the slightest case of criminal activity of any kind. However, a fighter's "job" is to fight... I believe someone with a history of armed robbery and someone with a history of chronic J-walking have an equal right to perform in MMA - Why do I feel that they're on equal ground? Well, why not? Do they expect the former armed robber is more likely to create some sort of misconduct? Do they believe that the armed robber is a bigger threat? If so, a threat to what? His opponent, who they've tentatively scheduled him to face in unarmed combat? He may be a former criminal, but put him in the Octagon and he's the same as the person he's staring at across the cage... that's my opinion, anyway.

The only "line" I could see being drawn is in front of criminals who may not be in a proper state of mind... but those are pretty easy to weed out.

ge master · 02-04-2008, 06:16 PM

Wow I'm surprised by the replies. If you had a family member who was a victim of a gang beating would you see this differently? I mean, let's be honest. Rate your crimes. Where does leading a group of thugs on gang beatings rate? Shouldn't violent offenses be a little more frowned upon by the UFC? I mean look at the sport, the image. I want to gag thinking about how hypocritical it is of Dana White when he spews about the image of the sport. *gags* This flies in the face of that. Yeah, people do their time, they should be able to be free. Yes, true. Does the UFC need Rob or does Rob need the UFC? Just curious. Again, isn't having criminals in any sport dependent of their crime? So gang beating against people at random isn't really that dispicable to you guys?

Again, I want to stress my support for Rob. He didn't make the rules about the UFC's image, Dana did. I have a warm heart and Rob to me is the ultimate survivor to be able to put it all aside and perform in the cage. My wife is catholic and she thinks he is a slice of apple pie. I don't know. I just think he's a great MMA fighter who is tough as nails.

Toshinden · 02-04-2008, 06:18 PM

Another thought: Maybe a serious crime like that would be considered differently if it were committed at some point AFTER the fighter had been accepted into the UFC. I don't believe Emerson is in the same place as he was when he committed those crimes; people change.

ge master · 02-04-2008, 06:22 PM

Yeah people change and some don't. Has he made any sort of public statement about all this stuff? Afterall, he is a UFC fighter now, and surely this can't be the only place it's being discussed? I mean, what's going to happen when he gets the title?

Toshinden · 02-04-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ge master

I mean, what's going to happen when he gets the title?

Yeah, we'll cross that bridge IF we come to it... He's already pleaded guilty - regardless of what the circumstances were surrounding that crime, he knows what he did wrong, and admitted it. We have no reason to believe that he would do it again just for the hell of it - I'd bet money that pro MMA probably had some part to play in preventing him from continuing on with that way of life.

But I would imagine that getting the title would completely change a person... It would take one hell of a piece of mind to be a respected champion and know in your mind that you're still a criminal and not want to change.

FightFan76 · 02-04-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toshinden

Yeah, we'll cross that bridge IF we come to it... He's already pleaded guilty - regardless of what the circumstances were surrounding that crime, he knows what he did wrong, and admitted it. We have no reason to believe that he would do it again just for the hell of it - I'd bet money that pro MMA probably had some part to play in preventing him from continuing on with that way of life.
But I would imagine that getting the title would completely change a person... It would take one hell of a piece of mind to be a respected champion and know in your mind that you're still a criminal and not want to change.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, I hope that it has played a part in getting him out of the gang life.....

Gooner · 02-04-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ge master

Wow I'm surprised by the replies. If you had a family member who was a victim of a gang beating would you see this differently? I mean, let's be honest. Rate your crimes. Where does leading a group of thugs on gang beatings rate? Shouldn't violent offenses be a little more frowned upon by the UFC? I mean look at the sport, the image. I want to gag thinking about how hypocritical it is of Dana White when he spews about the image of the sport. *gags* This flies in the face of that. Yeah, people do their time, they should be able to be free. Yes, true. Does the UFC need Rob or does Rob need the UFC? Just curious. Again, isn't having criminals in any sport dependent of their crime? So gang beating against people at random isn't really that dispicable to you guys?

Again, I want to stress my support for Rob. He didn't make the rules about the UFC's image, Dana did. I have a warm heart and Rob to me is the ultimate survivor to be able to put it all aside and perform in the cage. My wife is catholic and she thinks he is a slice of apple pie. I don't know. I just think he's a great MMA fighter who is tough as nails.

I don't think I would view it differently. Except for maybe on the part of those specific guys. Obviously I wouldn't wish success on them or anything. But it's irrelevant in this debate imo.
It's like asking "if someone raped your girl you would want to kill him, right? So why aren't you supporting the death penalty?"

And as far as does the UFC need Rob... No, not at all.
But that shouldn't play a part in this.
You can't make different rules for great fighters and barely-UFC fighters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ge master

I mean, what's going to happen when he gets the title?

Emerson isn't getting the title.
A guy that had/has to perform community service work for allegedly punching a cop already has it.

Anti-Sanchez · 02-05-2008, 06:42 AM

There are some people that might argue that if you've had a history of past violence you probably should distance yourself from a violent sport. Just like Alcoholic's should not tend bar, addicted gamblers should not work as blackjack dealers, and pedophiles should not teach kindergarten.

Not saying this is right but I'm sure some people are looking at it this way.

Greenman · 02-05-2008, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arelius

Chalk it up to "growing pains".

Yes, I am certain his victims feel exactly the same way. I can hear them now through wired jaws "Ahhh poor little rich boy. I sure am glad I could help him through his growing pains."

I say get him out ASAP. The UFC went to great pains to get rid of Babalu for much much less IMO, yet the poor little rich boy from the OC is getting fights? Gimme a break.

OneBigThrow · 02-05-2008, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Has he made any sort of public statement about all this stuff?

why does he have to address the public? its public record but it isnt a public issue

that being said, if he served the sentence he was given, we can lay off him

if you dont wanna watch "criminals" fight then change the channel during their fights, or go grab a beer or smoke a joint

i am a by-the-letter-of-the-law kinda guy, but I also feel that a person should be absolved of his crimes once hes served his punishment, which is why I hate background checks and the fact that you may not be able to get a job simply because you were CHARGED with a crime

its bull****

Jasp · 02-05-2008, 07:45 AM

For me its completly different things Babalu and Emerson. If Emerson was reported beating up people now, I think that Dana would kick him out asap. But this is things that have happend in the past and if he sais he has change and he shows no signs in going back to that way of life i dont see way you would kick him out.
I have no facts to this but Im sure that MMA attracts alot of "troubled" kids just the same as boxing does, and if MMA is some way for them out of that i think that you should be allowed to compete even if you have commited crimes in the past. But as with Babalu he was in the UFC and commited a crime and therefor he was kicked out.

dymac · 02-05-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightFan76

I am not really sold on him making it to the top of any division right now based on any fight I have seen him in.

As far as the criminal thing goes, I dont know; people deserve to have the opportunity to change and if he has done that then I guess I have no problem w/ him being in the UFC. Having said that, I would give him a very short lease and would let him go at the 1st sign of trouble.....

What if one of your relatives was one of his victims? Would you still feel the same?

OneBigThrow · 02-05-2008, 11:24 AM

^thats a silly argument

many families will openly forgive someone who killed one of their own, and there are many instances in which the family doesnt want the full extent of the law imposed upon the convicted murder

basically, its not fair to assume that everyone wants an eye for an eye

NWCrazy · 02-05-2008, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenman

Yes, I am certain his victims feel exactly the same way. I can hear them now through wired jaws "Ahhh poor little rich boy. I sure am glad I could help him through his growing pains."

I say get him out ASAP. The UFC went to great pains to get rid of Babalu for much much less IMO, yet the poor little rich boy from the OC is getting fights? Gimme a break.

Thank you for your response.

I have no compassion for ANYONE who committed a violent crime...period. I would like to see every one of them barred from the UFC much less from the human race if possible. Giving them a second chance sends other violent criminals the message that "yeah it's okay...they'll forgive me anyway".

There has to be justice for the victims and their families. Turning the other way and/or rewarding "punks" is not justice.

Crashsti · 02-05-2008, 12:55 PM

i have no problem with the soemone who had commited a crime and successfully been through the process getting a chance to live a normal life. Take this thread for example. I am sure that Rob Emerson just wants to put his past behind him and look to the future while others have to constantly remind him that he WAS a criminal.