BJ: "Id make Lauzon fight me...." - Page 2 - Fight Forum - MMA - UFC - Boxing - K1

FightFan76 · 03-14-2008, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullonshred

Other than a flash knockout of a faded Jens Pulver, what exactly has Joe Lauzon done to be held in such high esteem? Anybody can run into a punch and get dropped. I checked his record, and there are very few fighters on his resume I have ever even heard of.

So other than training with Penn and a flash KO over Jens, what exactly are the attributes that make people feel Lauzon is so outstanding?

But yeah Kenflo is just so fabulous, everyone has him all pumped up and who exactly has he finished that we actually know besides Din who we all saw injure his knee in the fight?

I say this is a very good match-up b/t 2 guys who get a chance to prove their worth b/c I am not willing to give Kenny a free pass to another title shot. The guys he has fought that we do know are the ones that he lost. Pulver is a bigger name than anyone Kenny has beaton and Joe has the right style to really give Kenny problems. I believe Joe is going to win this fight.....

fullonshred · 03-15-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightFan76

But yeah Kenflo is just so fabulous, everyone has him all pumped up and who exactly has he finished that we actually know besides Din who we all saw injure his knee in the fight?

I say this is a very good match-up b/t 2 guys who get a chance to prove their worth b/c I am not willing to give Kenny a free pass to another title shot. The guys he has fought that we do know are the ones that he lost. Pulver is a bigger name than anyone Kenny has beaton and Joe has the right style to really give Kenny problems. I believe Joe is going to win this fight.....

I have heard of and seen fight everybody Kenny has faced except for Bobby McAndrews. He has finished Stout, Mishima, Karalexis, Cope,Thomas and Robinson, in addition to Din Thomas, all of whom I have seen fight other people.

I have heard of only 2 of the people Lauzon has faced, Pulver and Melendez who was on TUF5 with Joe. I have never said Joe won't/can't win, only that I will be surprised if he does. And I will credit BJ Penn for much of the success (if Joe wins).

earvinarp · 03-15-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightFan76

But yeah Kenflo is just so fabulous, everyone has him all pumped up and who exactly has he finished that we actually know besides Din who we all saw injure his knee in the fight?

I say this is a very good match-up b/t 2 guys who get a chance to prove their worth b/c I am not willing to give Kenny a free pass to another title shot. The guys he has fought that we do know are the ones that he lost. Pulver is a bigger name than anyone Kenny has beaton and Joe has the right style to really give Kenny problems. I believe Joe is going to win this fight.....

Kenny looked awesome in his 3 or 4 last fights, despite the "opposition," which IMO was more than good enough. His pace has been brutal, his determination unquestionable and his domination clear. Even in the fight with FF's beloved Din Thomas he was following his game plan and would have finished Thomas anyway, had he not injured himself. Time will tell, as they are likely to fight again. But Florian is the most improved player ever to come out of the reality show. Probably the first pure TUF product who'll be a clear champ and dominator of a division one day.

FightFan76 · 03-15-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earvinarp

Kenny looked awesome in his 3 or 4 last fights, despite the "opposition," which IMO was more than good enough. His pace has been brutal, his determination unquestionable and his domination clear. Even in the fight with FF's beloved Din Thomas he was following his game plan and would have finished Thomas anyway, had he not injured himself. Time will tell, as they are likely to fight again. But Florian is the most improved player ever to come out of the reality show. Probably the first pure TUF product who'll be a clear champ and dominator of a division one day.

I totally disagree w/ a drastic improvement or that he would have finished Din b/c I thought that was a really close fight and Din was slightly winning the fight when he got hurt.

Also, I do not believe Kenny will ever win a belt in the UFC unless maybe if they add a 145 class and he moves down yet again. I am so sure of this if he does I will just give you all of my FF points if he does(I dont have alot though lol).....

earvinarp · 03-15-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightFan76

I totally disagree w/ a drastic improvement or that he would have finished Din b/c I thought that was a really close fight and Din was slightly winning the fight when he got hurt.

Also, I do not believe Kenny will ever win a belt in the UFC unless maybe if they add a 145 class and he moves down yet again. I am so sure of this if he does I will just give you all of my FF points if he does(I dont have alot though lol).....

I see him holding his own against Penn. IMO he'd do much better than Stevenson. And, if he keeps improving as he has, he will be better than BJ, as he has more heart and determination.

FightFan76 · 03-15-2008, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earvinarp

I see him holding his own against Penn. IMO he'd do much better than Stevenson. And, if he keeps improving as he has, he will be better than BJ, as he has more heart and determination.

Penn would steamroll him man, and just due simply to natural talent/skill he will never be as good as Penn while he is at his top level. I am not even a Penn fan but the guy is just very naturally talented and I am not taking anything away from Kenny on this one.....

earvinarp · 03-15-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightFan76

Penn would steamroll him man, and just due simply to natural talent/skill he will never be as good as Penn while he is at his top level. I am not even a Penn fan but the guy is just very naturally talented and I am not taking anything away from Kenny on this one.....

We will probably see soon enough. I have blind faith in Florian.

fullonshred · 03-15-2008, 09:29 PM

I gotta agree, putting him on Penn's level is a pretty big stretch in my view.

earvinarp · 03-15-2008, 11:11 PM

BJ has great ability. Yes, probably unrivaled ability. But he had lost with folks who could simply outlast him (such as Matt Hughes). First of all, I don't see any human way for him to beat Sherk. The fight will go the distance and BJ will melt in round 3, like it always happens. So, unless he scores two rounds of 10-8, it is mathematically impossible for him to win. Just look at Sean's record. You can bet $$$$$ on that.

He dispatched Stevenson so fast because he knew he would not be able to handle the 5 rounds. I am of the opinion that Joe is not at Florian's current level. It is my opinion, yes. And I also believe BJ will be remembered as a huge talent who never was the dominator people expected him to be. Now, Florian, he has already exceeded what was expected of him. A win over BJ is not at all out of the question.

BCguy · 03-16-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earvinarp

BJ has great ability. Yes, probably unrivaled ability. But he had lost with folks who could simply outlast him (such as Matt Hughes). First of all, I don't see any human way for him to beat Sherk. The fight will go the distance and BJ will melt in round 3, like it always happens. So, unless he scores two rounds of 10-8, it is mathematically impossible for him to win. Just look at Sean's record. You can bet $$$$$ on that.

He dispatched Stevenson so fast because he knew he would not be able to handle the 5 rounds. I am of the opinion that Joe is not at Florian's current level. It is my opinion, yes. And I also believe BJ will be remembered as a huge talent who never was the dominator people expected him to be. Now, Florian, he has already exceeded what was expected of him. A win over BJ is not at all out of the question.

Right , his overwhelming skill had nothing to do with why he beat him so fast.

That's one of the most ridiculous statements i've ever seen.

Pitbull · 03-16-2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earvinarp

BJ has great ability. Yes, probably unrivaled ability. But he had lost with folks who could simply outlast him (such as Matt Hughes). First of all, I don't see any human way for him to beat Sherk. The fight will go the distance and BJ will melt in round 3, like it always happens. So, unless he scores two rounds of 10-8, it is mathematically impossible for him to win. Just look at Sean's record. You can bet $$$$$ on that.

He dispatched Stevenson so fast because he knew he would not be able to handle the 5 rounds. I am of the opinion that Joe is not at Florian's current level. It is my opinion, yes. And I also believe BJ will be remembered as a huge talent who never was the dominator people expected him to be. Now, Florian, he has already exceeded what was expected of him. A win over BJ is not at all out of the question.

Unbelievable how you come up with these things.

And I don't know who is expecting BJ to be a 'dominator'. If you're talking about complete ownage of his opponent each and every time he steps in the octagon to fight, that is ridiculous. No one does that.

Rumbin · 03-16-2008, 01:23 PM

I still cant believe people are still saying BJ wasnt gassed after that Stevenson fight. He looked exausted. That fight was at a frantic pace for the 7 or so minutes it went but I still dont think BJ's gas tank will ever be ready to go 4-5 rounds, which is why I think Sherk will pound him and eventually finish it in R4 or 5.

The only thing the KFlo/Thomas fight proved is that KFlo is allowed to punch to the back of the head and nobody else can.

earvinarp · 03-16-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitbull

Unbelievable how you come up with these things.

And I don't know who is expecting BJ to be a 'dominator'. If you're talking about complete ownage of his opponent each and every time he steps in the octagon to fight, that is ridiculous. No one does that.

See Anderson Silva

Pitbull · 03-16-2008, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earvinarp

See Anderson Silva

See Round 1 of Henderson vs Silva.

BCguy · 03-16-2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earvinarp

See Anderson Silva

See Silva vs. Chonan.

FightFan76 · 03-16-2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumbin

I still cant believe people are still saying BJ wasnt gassed after that Stevenson fight. He looked exausted. That fight was at a frantic pace for the 7 or so minutes it went but I still dont think BJ's gas tank will ever be ready to go 4-5 rounds, which is why I think Sherk will pound him and eventually finish it in R4 or 5.

The only thing the KFlo/Thomas fight proved is that KFlo is allowed to punch to the back of the head and nobody else can.

Everybody is an expert on when someone gasses; I thought he was fine after the fight but will continue to get discredited for finishing fights which is ridiculuos b/c of the cardio experts claiming he is lacking cardio.....

earvinarp · 03-17-2008, 01:54 AM

So now Anderson Silva is not in complete control of his weight class in the sport?

BCguy · 03-17-2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earvinarp

So now Anderson Silva is not in complete control of his weight class in the sport?

No one is saying that. All i am saying is you can't dominate everyone all the time. Sure Anderson is a great champ and the #1 MW in the world and most likely #1 P4P in the world. But even he will have not so dominant aspects to certain fights. Plus he wasn't always as dominant as he was over Leben and Franklin. Like the 1st round of the Hendo fight , and like some of his previous fights before he came to the UFC.

But this isn't a Silva thread.

You claimed BJ knew his Cardio was no good so he finished Stevenson quickly. Well the same could be said for Silva then. None of his fights have gone longer than 2 rounds , so does he know his cardio is crap too ? If you're gonna make that argument for BJ , then i hope you're gonna make it for all fighters who finish quickly and don't go to decisions. We have seen Penn gas twice recently , against GSP , and then the debatable gas/injury against Hughes. Do you forget that he has gone to 3 and 5 round decisions before ? Penn is 3-3-1 when a fight goes the distance. With Decision wins over Renzo and Rodrigo Gracie , and Matt Serra. With losses to Pulver (5 rounds) , Machida (30 pounds over his normal fighting weight) and a split decision loss to GSP.

earvinarp · 03-17-2008, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCguy

You claimed BJ knew his Cardio was no good so he finished Stevenson quickly. Well the same could be said for Silva then. None of his fights have gone longer than 2 rounds , so does he know his cardio is crap too ? If you're gonna make that argument for BJ , then i hope you're gonna make it for all fighters who finish quickly and don't go to decisions. We have seen Penn gas twice recently , against GSP , and then the debatable gas/injury against Hughes. Do you forget that he has gone to 3 and 5 round decisions before ? Penn is 3-3-1 when a fight goes the distance. With Decision wins over Renzo and Rodrigo Gracie , and Matt Serra. With losses to Pulver (5 rounds) , Machida (30 pounds over his normal fighting weight) and a split decision loss to GSP.

Man, I won't argue BJ is an amazing fighter. Probably one of the 3 or 4 most talented of this generation, up there with GSP, Silva... He looked more than impressive against Stevenson and finished him off very dominantly. I am of the opinion that Joe is not a top 5 LW in the world and believed BJ would be too much for him. Now, that said, how many of BJ's fans actually do not fear his fights going a bit too long and start tipping in the other fighter's direction? I believe it is BJ's weakest point and a source of concern for his fans. Yes, he may have gone the distance in the past with other folks. The Gracie fights hardly matter as the Gracies themselves don't bring great cardio or crazy pace. The Machida fight, alebit long, was mostly slow and tentative. The Matt Serra fight I do not recall, so I have no opinion on the matter.

My whole point is that someone like Sherk, who is a worse fighter by all means than BJ, will likely walk away with a 5-round decision. And I don't see Kenny Florian's doing the same out of the question. That is the whole point of my discussion: You have an amazing fighter with a huge Achilles heel, and people have and will take advantage of it.

BCguy · 03-17-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earvinarp

Man, I won't argue BJ is an amazing fighter. Probably one of the 3 or 4 most talented of this generation, up there with GSP, Silva... He looked more than impressive against Stevenson and finished him off very dominantly. I am of the opinion that Joe is not a top 5 LW in the world and believed BJ would be too much for him. Now, that said, how many of BJ's fans actually do not fear his fights going a bit too long and start tipping in the other fighter's direction? I believe it is BJ's weakest point and a source of concern for his fans. Yes, he may have gone the distance in the past with other folks. The Gracie fights hardly matter as the Gracies themselves don't bring great cardio or crazy pace. The Machida fight, alebit long, was mostly slow and tentative. The Matt Serra fight I do not recall, so I have no opinion on the matter.

My whole point is that someone like Sherk, who is a worse fighter by all means than BJ, will likely walk away with a 5-round decision. And I don't see Kenny Florian's doing the same out of the question. That is the whole point of my discussion: You have an amazing fighter with a huge Achilles heel, and people have and will take advantage of it.

I don't argue that Penn's cardio sometimes is in question. I was more responding to your claim that Penn finished Stevenson early cus he knew his cardio would not hold up. I just find that statement ridiculous and totally unfounded. And it takes away from the dominating performance he showed that night.