Official Scorecards for Griffin/Jackson Fight

dsver1 · 07-07-2008, 01:52 AM

Five Ounces of Pain | Official scorecards for Jackson vs. Griffin

Quote:

Adalaide Byrd who scored it 48-46, gave 4 and 5 to Jackson and Griffin 1, 2 and 3 with 2 as 10-8

Nelson Hamilton had it 48-46 with 1 and 4 for Jackson, and Griffin getting 2 10-8

Roy Silbert had it 49-46 with only round 4 for Jackson

This could be merged with the thread in the results section, but I feel it warrants its own thread.

Everyone is talking about how they would have scored it (draw or split for 'Page for me) and how they thought the judges scored it, but look above and what do you see?

2 JUDGES (BYRD & SILBERT) GAVE GRIFFIN ROUND 1!!!!

Put aside the 10-8 in round 2 debate and focus on this. That is some messed up judging IMHO!

I mean, you can argue who won the other rounds, but when 2 judges strip a fighter of a round he clearly won, then I don't know what to tell you.

Except: Please, please, please start grading judges!

stillstanding · 07-07-2008, 02:44 AM

If you check my analysis on the results section I gave my breakdown of the fight.

I had Griffin winning it 3-2 rounds and I thought I was being generous. I remember watching it with a few people (there first UFC event) and they said they would never watch UFC if Jackson won.

Crashsti · 07-07-2008, 02:45 AM

Simple solution, don't let your fight go to a decision. Judges obviously still lack a solid understanding of the sport and to leave your life in thier hands is taking a chance.

Chewman · 07-07-2008, 07:30 AM

I'm rewatching this fight right now and I'm gonna tell you exactly how I'm seeing it.

Round 1 : Forrest (That Knock Down was impressive but happened to late and did not make up for the painful Leg kicks via Forrest)

Round 2 : Forrest (Leg kicks + Knees to the head takes Forrest on top of Page and spends 4 minutes looking for subs and pounding. This round is clearly for Forrest just like R1)

Round 3 : Forrest (Forrest is very aggressive and never stops hunting down Page, he never stops landing kicks and even though page landed two good combinations through out the fight Forrest ends the round with his own)

Round 4 : Rampage (Someone I guess told him to become aggressive - Even with Page's punching combos Forrest is aggressive the last 3 minutes following Page down around the ring. The ONLY reason I give this to Page and not Forrest is landing of some punches - Forrest still out maneuvered page and page did nothing on the ground - This is the round Page cut Forrest. In my Opinion this is to late to effect the fights out come)

Round 5 : Forrest (he was aggressive all the time landing kicks they both moved around a lot that round both tired I'm sure)

Now lets be honest here The only reason you give Rampage the first round is that knock down. The other 90% of the fight Forrest was working him over.
Round 1-2 Clearly Forrest - Round 3 Forrest is tracking Page down never lets up, Page lands good combos but little late in my opinion to effect the round and that rounds ends with Forrest landing one of his own.
4 would go to Page for his aggressiveness and taken Forrest down - but still he did nothing on the ground and though he did cut him. Round 5 both are tired but STILL Forrest is following Page and landing kicks and tossing out punches.

This is a great fight, worthy of a championship title but Forrest did win this fight and he most certainly deserves the title for that level of performance.

Cuts O Meat · 07-07-2008, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

Simple solution, don't let your fight go to a decision. Judges obviously still lack a solid understanding of the sport and to leave your life in thier hands is taking a chance.

That's not a solution at all... These athletes train extremely hard for their sport, so why should they have to deal with incompetent judges because their opponent wasn't a push over?

Cuts O Meat · 07-07-2008, 07:37 AM

Like I said before, Big John McCarthy knows this game better than anyone. He says the judging in the UFC is crap, and that the judges don't understand MMA.

Is anyone really surprised by this?

AikaImmortal · 07-07-2008, 07:56 AM

I hate Byrd. Her and Dauby Shirley however you spell it, along with Cecil Peoples are the trifecta of incompetency.

Chewman · 07-07-2008, 07:59 AM

Forrest clearly won this fight - you may not agree with the exact scores - but still he won the fight.

Chewman · 07-07-2008, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuts O Meat

Like I said before, Big John McCarthy knows this game better than anyone. He says the judging in the UFC is crap, and that the judges don't understand MMA.

Is anyone really surprised by this?

Not at all.. he has said in many interviews that the current judges only base their points off of a Boxers point system. Not a fully (3-D) if you will perspective of a fight.

But he also brings up this fact, lets say they did change the way they awarded points - who is not to say that some fighter wont sue them over the change if they feel it doesn't benefit them like the current does. It's the same as what he said about Knees to a downed opponent. If they did allow that - and then someone did get hurt badly - they could say "oh I wouldn't have got hurt if you didn't change the rules I'm gonna sue.

theultimatewarrior · 07-07-2008, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewman

Forrest clearly won this fight - you may not agree with the exact scores - but still he won the fight.

The fact that many people on here think otherwise means that the fight wasn't clearly won. If it was then you wouldn't get so many people disagreeing with the decision.

I personally thought he'd just lost the fight/draw however i have to agree with the poster further up the thread who said you should never leave it to the judges.

I hope Rampage gets his re-match and gets it soon.

Chewman · 07-07-2008, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theultimatewarrior

The fact that many people on here think otherwise means that the fight wasn't clearly won. If it was then you wouldn't get so many people disagreeing with the decision.

I personally thought he'd just lost the fight/draw however i have to agree with the poster further up the thread who said you should never leave it to the judges.

I hope Rampage gets his re-match and gets it soon.

I don't see how anyone could think Rampage won that at all. It's funny to see how people view the same thing so differently.

To me.. Forrest is the clear victor in the fight. Aggressive - Kicks - going for subs all the time on bottom and top - Forrest all the way won it.

WanderleiSilver · 07-07-2008, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

Simple solution, don't let your fight go to a decision. Judges obviously still lack a solid understanding of the sport and to leave your life in thier hands is taking a chance.

I've never liked that argument, a finish in every match can't be possible. The judges should be able to call a match efficiently when called upon after all that's the only reason they're there.

Cuts O Meat · 07-07-2008, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewman

Not at all.. he has said in many interviews that the current judges only base their points off of a Boxers point system. Not a fully (3-D) if you will perspective of a fight.

But he also brings up this fact, lets say they did change the way they awarded points - who is not to say that some fighter wont sue them over the change if they feel it doesn't benefit them like the current does. It's the same as what he said about Knees to a downed opponent. If they did allow that - and then someone did get hurt badly - they could say "oh I wouldn't have got hurt if you didn't change the rules I'm gonna sue.

You could make that legal argument for anything. Who's to say someone doesn't sue because the current configuration of the scoring system gives too much of an advantage to American Wrestlers over BJJ artists.

Fact is, the scoring system in the UFC is broken. And there are ultimately two options. Either fix it and worry about what happens then, or don't fix it and worry about what's happening right now.

FightFan76 · 07-07-2008, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

Simple solution, don't let your fight go to a decision. Judges obviously still lack a solid understanding of the sport and to leave your life in thier hands is taking a chance.

This argument really dont hold water IMO. I mean seriously dont you think both fighters are trying to finish the other guy. People on here state it like it is a simple thing to do so just like NIKE used to say "just do it". I do get what you are saying b/c finishing a fight would take the controversy out of it but some guys are just not that easy finish and Forrest and Rampage are both in that category. I personally feel that Forrest clearly won but did not dominate or anything.....

OneBigThrow · 07-07-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Simple solution, don't let your fight go to a decision. Judges obviously still lack a solid understanding of the sport and to leave your life in thier hands is taking a chance.

Hey, we cant all be Kenny Florian...but im sure all the non KenFlos in the world train really hard so they dont have to be in that damn ring or cage 15-25 minutes at least respect that

Crashsti · 07-07-2008, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuts O Meat

That's not a solution at all... These athletes train extremely hard for their sport, so why should they have to deal with incompetent judges because their opponent wasn't a push over?

what do you suppose a fighter should do then? Its been years and there has been absolutely no forward progress regarding the judging. The 10 point must point must system is still in place and we still see ringside judges that don't know anything about MMA. Outside solutions are not coming from any direction, so that leaves it in the hands of the fighters to work hard to avoid fights going to decision.

OneBigThrow · 07-07-2008, 10:44 AM

What do you suppose a fighter should do then? Pull out a knife in the last minute of the final round and make sure he gets the finish?

these athletes are doing what they can do, IMO the best thing to do is to be well rounded and be able to be dangerous and defensive in any phase of the fight

the problem with that is that that just means more facets for the current crop of judges to be ill-informed in and they will still continue to see these aspects differently

so yea, the only resolution is to continue to educate and hopefully recruti fighters and officials as they retire into the career of judging fights

think a guy like ivan salaverry learning the trade and then going out there and doing some mma judging

the solution is not "MAYBE YOU SHOULD LEARN TO FINISH FIGHTS" thats a cop out and a smoke screen to the real problem

Cuts O Meat · 07-07-2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crashsti

what do you suppose a fighter should do then? Its been years and there has been absolutely no forward progress regarding the judging. The 10 point must point must system is still in place and we still see ringside judges that don't know anything about MMA. Outside solutions are not coming from any direction, so that leaves it in the hands of the fighters to work hard to avoid fights going to decision.

You don't already think these fighters do work hard to not let the fight go to the judges?

Chewman · 07-07-2008, 11:21 AM

I can't get over how people still think Page won round 1, let alot won the whole match. There is about 110 threads about this on most forums now (>_<) thanks FF for not being like those.

AikaImmortal · 07-07-2008, 11:26 AM

The solution is train the judges to know what to look for in scoring criteria, and hold them to higher standards than currently.