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MY point has always been about who deserves a title shot more. It was never arguing one division and one organization is someone's resume. I've said from the get-go i think Penn would likely beat most of these fighters, but he needs to do that in order to deserve a title shot. There are fighters who got quick title shots besides the one's you mentioned, such as Dan Henderson. I don't think Rampage deserved a title shot either, and the MW division has been considered weak for a while. Remember Nate Quarry getting a title shot? I'm only downplaying BJ's wins because of the way you are building them up. You made it sound like he beat the Pulver and Serra that were champions, when neither win was close to when they were champions. I feel like most of this debate has been you either misinterpreting or twisting my words. I think we've each made our points.

Long story short, BJ Penn is more popular and will get a title shot he didn't earn, again.

Perception of who is a better fighter doesn't always pan out. That's why underdogs win all the time. Regardless of how you want to say it, the fights still determine who is the better fighter. Not speculation, not perception. That's why they happen. I would believe Rashad Evans has more of a claim to a LHW title shot than Wanderlei Silva, yes. Which is exactly the terms in which i am talking. I don't see how it's horrible logic. I'm not saying Penn isn't likely a better fighter than most of these people. And overall he has accomplished more in the sport. I'm saying they have earned a title shot by fighting contenders in that weight-class in that organization, and the perception that Penn is better than them should not allow for him to cut the line. Especially in one of the most stacked divisions. He hasn't beaten even one contender at that division since returning to the UFC. Many of the guys i've mentioned have had bumps along the way, but hasn't Penn also? Why do their stumbles knock them out of contention but Penn's get ignored?

While i agree that the person's credentials for a title shot shouldn't fall solely in the division of that title, it should be most of it. You mentioned guys getting to cut the line, but those are guys who had impressive runs in that division. Or were coming into a weak disivion. Or were current Pride champions. To be honest, it's not like Penn has exactly cleaned house elsewhere. The only top10 fighter he's beaten lately is Sean Sherk. The only top10 fighters who were top10 when he beat them were Sherk and Hughes. His win over Jens Pulver was years after Pulver was the champion. When he fought Pulver at that time, he lost. His win over Serra was years before Serra was the champion. Most of these fights your calling his big wins, were back in 02-03. Which is exactly my point. Penn's biggest accomplishments were many years ago, then a win over Hughes in 04, then a win over Sherk recently. Penn receives much of his accolades because of his willingness to fight anyone at any weight. Despite losing those fights, he still looks good in the losses and does not get finished. Which is credible and very admirable, but should it really count for a title shot?

And the speculation of who is the favorite is based on what? The fighters entrance music? No the speculation is based on who is perceived to be the better fighter.

Basing someone's resume solely on their performance in one division within one organization is a little short sighted. Would you have me believe that Rashad Evans, 6-0-1 in the UFC LHW division, has a better fighting resume than Wandy who is 1-1 in the same division? Horrible logic my friend.

Sanchez has stumbled when facing top competition.
Koscheck's biggest win was against Sanchez(see above).
Alves has been impressive lately, but has trouble making weight.
Karo has stumbled win facing top competition as well. In the last few years all of his wins have been by decision, not all that impressive.

So considering that Penn holds victories over Hughes, in his prime, 3 other former UFC champs Sherk, Pulver, and Serra, and a win over Gomi. He has been a champion multiple times. All things considered I would say he has a better resume than any of the names you threw out.

As I said it is not guaranteed that he would win every fight if he was to fight them all. In all cases you do not have to run the gauntlet to earn a title shot. A. Silva defeated Leben and was given a title shot. Had Shogun won his fight against Griffin he probably would have been given a title shot. Rampage beat Eastman to get a title shot. When you are a big name with an impressive background you do not have to beat every fighter in the division before you get a shot. You earn by what you have done in your career, not in one division in one org.

There is a difference between thinking he would be the favorite, and then actually running the gauntlet to earn the number one contender spot.

Not at all. As i said, fights determine who is best, not speculation. So while Penn would be a favorite against any contender, it would be purely due to speculation. That is how favorites are picked. The fights determine who is the better fighter, not the odds. The underdog wins a good portion of the time.

I can name numerous fighters at WW who have a better resume than BJ, because they consistently fight at that weight and fight more often. BJ has had 3 fights at WW in the UFC, and lost two of those. Although his good performances in those losses to top fighters definitely count for something. But lets compare WW records in the UFC:

B.J Penn 1-2WW
Diego Sanchez 7-2 WW
Josh Koscheck 9-2 WW
Thiago Alves 8-2 WW
Karo Parisyan 8-3 WW

You contradict yourself, by saying you believe he would be the favorite against all contenders. He would be the favorite because he is better, that is how favorites are picked. I did not say that it was guaranteed that he would win every fight because anything can happen.
If he doesn't have the best resume of the WW contenders, name one who has a better one.

You contradict yourself, by saying you believe he would be the favorite against all contenders. He would be the favorite because he is better, that is how favorites are picked. I did not say that it was guaranteed that he would win every fight because anything can happen.
If he doesn't have the best resume of the WW contenders, name one who has a better one.

How can you say he is better than any other contender at WW, when the only one he's beaten is Matt Hughes, over 4 years ago? I'd make him a favorite against all contenders, but that's why the fights happen. Because that determines who is the most qualified, not speculation. That also means he can't have a better resume than the entire division. He put on solid performances in his losses, but without those being wins, how can his resume be better? It will definitely sell better than anything else though, can't argue that.

Again, I think Penn would be the favorite, but they're in the same league. Penn's got his own weakness' too. It won't matter, after his next fight with GSP, anyway...he'll get beat down and go back to lw where he belongs.

GSP may squeak by again but I find it hard to believe he is going tobeat down an in shape BJ when he basically got beat up by and out of shape BJ the first fight.

I understand your concern for GSP, but the facts are;
1: BJ is better than any other contender at WW
2: BJ has a better resume than any other WW contender
3: Most importantly BJ v GSP is will sell more than any other match up

And his first fight back was a split decision loss that a lot of people, including one judge, thought he won. GSP's face was a wreck after that fight. Plus BJ seems to have overcome his biggest weakness, cardio. BJ with good cardio means a tough night for anyone.

Yeah your right but I jsut don't think he is close to bj's league atm & from several fights I saw I seen a few weak areas.

hmmmm.......i think aika was just making an exaggerated statement to make a point. because as well we all know HYPERBOLE IS THE BEST THING EVER!!!:D

First Fight '03
Second Fight '05
Third Fight '06