Henderson vs Franklin

Gooner · 08-29-2006, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSPalltheway

gotta be honest, id guess kang would be a 6 to 1 underdog in that fight... you must be a huge pride fine.. franklin is the best in the world right now bar none... someone needs to drop down to even give him a run

I don't have a bias towards either org., both have their pros and cons. But Franklin is hugely overrated, and I like the guy. And yes, PRIDE has most of the best fighters by far.

Franklin's toughest opponents (except for his loss) have been Tanner and Loiseau. They're not bad, but Hendo has faced WAY tougher guys and done well. Franklin wouldn't get to a decision against Wandy for example. He wouldn't get out of the first round.
There's no way Rich could dance away from Hendo for the whole match. Hendo would connect at some point, and Rich would go down. I don't see Rich KO'ing Hendo either.

And if he doesn't take A. Silva down in their fight, he'll lose that one too.
Franklin's about to be exposed. LOL@"Best in the world". Even Dana knows he isn't, that's why Lindland was kicked out.

GSPALLTHEWAY · 08-29-2006, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooner

I don't have a bias towards either org., both have their pros and cons. But Franklin is hugely overrated, and I like the guy. And yes, PRIDE has most of the best fighters by far.

Franklin's toughest opponents (except for his loss) have been Tanner and Loiseau. They're not bad, but Hendo has faced WAY tougher guys and done well. Franklin wouldn't get to a decision against Wandy for example. He wouldn't get out of the first round.
There's no way Rich could dance away from Hendo for the whole match. Hendo would connect at some point, and Rich would go down. I don't see Rich KO'ing Hendo either.

And if he doesn't take A. Silva down in their fight, he'll lose that one too.
Franklin's about to be exposed. LOL@"Best in the world". Even Dana knows he isn't, that's why Lindland was kicked out.

come on now... how do you know any of this.... franklin has ONE loss... and that was to a very bad man.. and also a long time ago... franklin is at the tops of the list of devastating strikers but can goto the ground just as easily and submit.. your claims about losing to all these guys are off base IMO.. i think while some claims like fedor beat TIM (by sub) imo, are fine, or maybe chuck losing to one of thsoe guys... but i dont think pride has anyone who (in the SAME weight class) so please dont include wandy, can beat franklin, hughes, or bj penn... i do think they own the bigger classes tho

lwbfl · 08-29-2006, 10:09 AM

Franklin over Silva on the ground? Where does this come from? I'm not disputing, just looking for evidence.

Snow Patrol · 08-29-2006, 10:11 AM

People moaning about Chuck not having competition in his division
+
people thinking that Rich is too much for his division
=
Franklin vs Liddell: All questions answered.

This fight would be huge.

Just remember, Liddell can KO anyone so don't say Rich would just get KO'd. He is smart, has the conditioning and has a chance.

Gooner · 08-29-2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSPalltheway

come on now... how do you know any of this.... franklin has ONE loss... and that was to a very bad man.. and also a long time ago... franklin is at the tops of the list of devastating strikers but can goto the ground just as easily and submit.. your claims about losing to all these guys are off base IMO.. i think while some claims like fedor beat TIM (by sub) imo, are fine, or maybe chuck losing to one of thsoe guys... but i dont think pride has anyone who (in the SAME weight class) so please dont include wandy, can beat franklin, hughes, or bj penn... i do think they own the bigger classes tho

-Franklin subbing Hendo/Filho/Kang would be the 8th wonder of the world. No chance.
-Fedor would beat Sylvia any way he'd like, not just by sub.
-Chuck would do fine in PRIDE, but that's just it. Who else does UFC have at LHW?
-Franklin would not be top 3-material at PRIDE imo. You disagree, that's fine, but Franklin will lose once he faces one of the absolute top guys.
-PRIDE doesn't have guys, that can beat Hughes and Penn or GSP. Maybe it's, because they don't have that weightclass?

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Franklin over Silva on the ground? Where does this come from? I'm not disputing, just looking for evidence.

I'm not saying Franklin is better at subs than Silva, but he IS surely stronger. And GnP is the only way I'd see Rich beating him. However, I think he'll choose to stand with him.

Gooner · 08-29-2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Patrol

People moaning about Chuck not having competition in his division
+
people thinking that Rich is too much for his division
=
Franklin vs Liddell: All questions answered.

This fight would be huge.

Just remember, Liddell can KO anyone so don't say Rich would just get KO'd. He is smart, has the conditioning and has a chance.

Even if that second thought was true, this fight would make absolutely no sense for UFC.
UFC right now has those two marketable champions. After that fight, they'd only have one >>>Liddell - cos Rich wouldn't have a chance in hell. Put it to you this way, do you think Loiseau would have made it to decision with Chuck?

w0264007 · 08-29-2006, 02:35 PM

Liddell would knock out Franklin. I like Rich, but he's a middle weight for a reason. Which is why I think putting him up against Liddell, Wanderlei, or any other PRIDE 210+ lb fighter is ridiculous.

I think he and Hendo would be a good match up and that the fight could go either way. In the octagon, henderson would do better because the cage facilitates the clinch and pound that I'm sure he'd be dominant at. I think Franklin is smarter and more determined that Hendo, but that Hendo is stronger and more talented. Both fighters are very closely matched as far as style and talent, I just think that Franklin has more heart and wants it more.

I missed Kang and Fihlo fight, but that is irrelevant because the thread was about how Franklin and Henderson would match up , and after sunday, my opinion of henderson has swayed slightly.

Lidell would knock down wanderlei, then let him get back up, then knock him down again. and would keep doing that 'til he stopped getting up. Tito would put wanderlei in a corner and beat him 'til he quit.

Every one looks at Tim Sylvia's style and ignores his height. If Fedor were to beat him, it wouldn't be on his feet, and as much as I hate Tim, he would hurt Fedor badly before he got him to his back. I give Fedor the egde for sure, but he would get damaged before he won. And it wouldn't be a slaughter (Sylvia never uses his ground game becasue no one has taken him down-he's been dropped by punches, but in every case but one, he got back up, and that case was proved to be a rare exception).

PRIDE may have more better fighters, but the UFC champions are still competitive.

Anyway, that was off topic. Dan Henderson and Rich Franklin would be a good fight.

Sorry if I flamed you, I am used to Sherdog attitudes and posts, and I read too much into your reply. If you are going to suggest one fighter could beat another, then just say why, otherwise it looks like you are either a fan of the fighter you picked, or excessively biased towards your favorite organization.

w0264007 · 08-29-2006, 02:37 PM

Rich hurt his foot in round 1, and broke his hand in round 2. That fight going to decision showed heart, not weakness.

lwbfl · 08-29-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooner

I'm not saying Franklin is better at subs than Silva, but he IS surely stronger. And GnP is the only way I'd see Rich beating him. However, I think he'll choose to stand with him.

Hmmm, not sure about pure strength between these two. I just can't wait to see this fight.

Gooner · 08-29-2006, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w0264007

Lidell would knock down wanderlei, then let him get back up, then knock him down again. and would keep doing that 'til he stopped getting up. Tito would put wanderlei in a corner and beat him 'til he quit.

I'm sorry, this is retarded. Tito, who couldn't finish Forrest ****ing Griffin, would make Wandy quit? lol
Wanderlei>Arona>Tito

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Every one looks at Tim Sylvia's style and ignores his height. If Fedor were to beat him, it wouldn't be on his feet, and as much as I hate Tim, he would hurt Fedor badly before he got him to his back. I give Fedor the egde for sure, but he would get damaged before he won. And it wouldn't be a slaughter (Sylvia never uses his ground game becasue no one has taken him down-he's been dropped by punches, but in every case but one, he got back up, and that case was proved to be a rare exception).

Sylvia is slow. Fedor had no problems standing with Crocop. And Crocop is light years better than Sylvia in stand-up, the reach is not a big deal.
Fedor would probably punch him in the jaw a couple times, take him down and pound him, maybe sub him.

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PRIDE may have more better fighters, but the UFC champions are still competitive.

That's what I've been saying myself. Liddell would be top 3 imo, Franklin top 5 possibly and what the hell... Sylvia would be top 10.

Quote:

Sorry if I flamed you, I am used to Sherdog attitudes and posts, and I read too much into your reply. If you are going to suggest one fighter could beat another, then just say why, otherwise it looks like you are either a fan of the fighter you picked, or excessively biased towards your favorite organization.

Is this for me,I dunno. Why would I be biased towards an organization(PRIDE)? They don't pay me. They do pay their fighters though, and that's why they have the best in the world.
Hendo would beat Franklin, because he has a right hand and Rich's chin is questionable. There.

w0264007 · 08-29-2006, 04:26 PM

Liddell/Wanderlei: Chuck Liddell's style is the perfect counter to Wanderlei: you charge in, I backpedal and counter punch.

Sylvia/Fedor: Fedor wouldn't dominate standing. He couldn't reach Sylvia's jaw, unless Sylvia let him like he did to Arlovski the first time. As I said else where, I'd give Tim a 1-10 to 1-20 chance of upsetting Fedor, but it is possible (however unlikely).

Ortiz/Sylva: Tito did it before and could (potentially do it again) He threw out his back in the Griffen fight, and that is why he couldn't finish him. Wanderlei doesn't have the best ground game.

Franklin/Hendo: The big right is the southpaw killer, but southpaws have traditionally frustrated orthodox fighters. That is why I think it would be exciting. Both fighters have the tools to beat each others quickly. Franklin has been rocked, but he quickly regains his composure. Henderson would have to be quick if he wants to finish the fight with Franklin, because he WILL be getting back up if he is allowed to. I see Franklin controlling the fight standing unless Hendo lands his bomb, then I see Hendo controlling the fight on the ground with his wrestling, and Franklin struggling to stay alive with his JJ and heart.

sitnspin · 08-29-2006, 04:55 PM

There are a whole bunch of ridiculous claims being made in this thread, and a lot of dumb MMA math that rarely translates to how fights actually play out. You guys talk as if just because one fighter beat another fighter once, it's carved in stone who's superior, and the winner is guaranteed to beat everyone that the loser beat previously.

Dan had a bad fight this weekend, and I have no idea what the contributing factors were. In better health/frame of mind, would he win in a rematch? Quite possibly, but who knows? In top form, would he beat Rich Franklin? Again -- it's tough to say, and anyone who thinks they already know how that fight would play out is delirious.

Someone's going to beat Rich Franklin for his title someday, just like someone's eventually going to beat Fedor. When it happens, a lot of people are suddenly going to have very different opinions of these fighters, and that's totally shortsighted and unfair.

Despite Babalu's performance this past weekend, if he and Chuck fought again I still wouldn't feel confident about putting all my points on Chuck, because that's the nature of the sport -- there are so many variables and so many different ways to win, that it's tough to predict anything.

Gooner · 08-29-2006, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w0264007

Liddell/Wanderlei: Chuck Liddell's style is the perfect counter to Wanderlei: you charge in, I backpedal and counter punch.

Yeah, that's what they say. You could say the same about Wandy-Crocop too, but Wandy did alright didn't he? This fight is 50-50, you just can't be sure of either one winning.

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Sylvia/Fedor: Fedor wouldn't dominate standing. He couldn't reach Sylvia's jaw, unless Sylvia let him like he did to Arlovski the first time. As I said else where, I'd give Tim a 1-10 to 1-20 chance of upsetting Fedor, but it is possible (however unlikely).

Sylvia "let" AA do it in the second fight too. Then AA blew it by rushing like a madman. Sylvia is slow, he could easily be dropped by Fedor.

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Ortiz/Sylva: Tito did it before and could (potentially do it again) He threw out his back in the Griffen fight, and that is why he couldn't finish him. Wanderlei doesn't have the best ground game.

Like I said, Arona>Tito... he's a better version of Tito and Wandy beat him. Let's forget Tito tho, he's not a top 5 LHW by any stretch of the imagination.

Quote:

Franklin/Hendo: The big right is the southpaw killer, but southpaws have traditionally frustrated orthodox fighters. That is why I think it would be exciting. Both fighters have the tools to beat each others quickly. Franklin has been rocked, but he quickly regains his composure. Henderson would have to be quick if he wants to finish the fight with Franklin, because he WILL be getting back up if he is allowed to. I see Franklin controlling the fight standing unless Hendo lands his bomb, then I see Hendo controlling the fight on the ground with his wrestling, and Franklin struggling to stay alive with his JJ and heart.

Franklin would probably land more shots, but Hendo usually looks for the big shot, and he WOULD connect at some point, and I definitely see Franklin going down and Hendo pouncing on him after that.
Franklin would be lucky to make it to a decision (which he would lose), but there's no way in hell he'd KO Henderson.