Is Penn going to keep fighting in the UFC? - Page 3 - Fight Forum - MMA - UFC - Boxing - K1

sitnspin · 03-05-2006, 07:04 PM

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I miss Randy already!

Wow. I need a second here.

You know, I guess it's because the Chuck & Randy fight was fairly recent, but I haven't fully digested Randy's retirement. I understand, and I still think it's the right thing to do, but as a HUGE Randy Couture fan, I don't think I've said out loud, "I'm never going to see him fight again." One of my MMA heroes has really hung up his gloves.

[Danny] · 03-05-2006, 07:21 PM

This is the last thing I'm going to really say about this topic. Georges won his fight. That's a definate conclusion of this thread. He won with heart and the fighting spirit of not giving up. He deserved his shot against Hughes after his match with Trigg. So, he is definately deserving.

I just want to say this to SubG. If Penn is such a bum, then Sherk, Karo, Trigg, and "Mayhem" are all complete cans in MMA because GSP ran right through them. Penn gave GSP's toughest match. He was winning his fight with Hughes. I can't think of a match where GSP lost a round. Penn made your boy look human in that first round.

We need to get over this match and look towards Geroges vs Matt 2. Right now, I'm going with "Rush". I also think that Royce might give Matt a run for his money. But ultimately, St. Pierre is the man right now.

He's a tough bastard. Penn messed him up in that first round and he looked completely out of it at the end of that round. I kept saying to myself, "How the hell is he going to come back from that after getting beat that badly?" I thought because he hasn't really felt that, he might not be able to figure out a way to conqure that.

Anyway, GSP is more of a fighter in my eyes and I have all the freaking respect in the world for that tough son of a bitch. WAR ST. PEIRRE!

subgenius · 03-05-2006, 08:00 PM

Penn came out wearing an I'm The Champion t-shirt and the WW title belt. The reasons that I think that he is a bum have little to do with his fighting skills in the ring. When Penn lost this fight it validated GSP in many ways. It said that Penn was wrong and NOT the champion. And, if Penn was the champion, then GSP now has that title. I think that this match will not mean that much down the road. It will become a footnote to GSP as he becomes the champion...

sitnspin · 03-05-2006, 09:34 PM

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I think that this match will not mean that much down the road.

Just when we've almost put this thread to bed, you go and say something else that you KNOW people won't be able to leave alone. Last night was GSP's entrance into proven MMA greatness. Looking at what BJ has accomplished, everyone is pretty much in agreement that he's one of the top cats. I don't need to rattle off those accomplishments, because you know who he is and what he's done.

Previous to this, GSP had only defeated talented mid-level fighters (with no disrespect to any of them, but they're not world champions). But last night he accomplished what easily half of the MMA world said he couldn't do -- he defeated BJ Penn. A BJJ world champion, a man who made Matt Hughes tap without breaking a sweat, a vicious striker, and a crazy S.O.B. who wants to fight everyone everywhere.

Last night was the biggest test of GSP's career so far, and I believe that INCLUDES his fight with Hughes. He took everything BJ could throw at him in that first round, and with a gouged eye and a swollen nose he dug deep and fought harder than he's had to fight ever. He was tested by one of the world's greatest, and he won.

Had he lost, it would have meant another crushing disappointment for him. Penn would have gone on and probably beaten Matt Hughes again, and GSP would have to compete with an angry, hungry Hughes for the #1 contender spot before he could even get at Penn -- a man who'd already beaten him once. It would have been a major setback.

But instead, at that critical moment where people thought he was done, this happened:

His career took a huge step forward last night when he came back from near-defeat to win the last two rounds. Now he's proven that he's the real deal and he has what it takes to defeat Hughes and dominate the division for a long time to come. Just a footnote? More like the turning point of his career.

Greenman · 03-05-2006, 09:49 PM

As a great fighter, with an impressive record, Penn really should have showed a lot more class then the BS comments he made after the fight. If he "was" the true champ than last night was a championship match, GSP should have Baby J's belt around his waist.

That's what ticked me off, I respected BJ a lot before that fight, and very little after.

angryjonny · 03-05-2006, 09:54 PM

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Originally Posted by subgenius

Penn came out wearing an I'm The Champion t-shirt and the WW title belt. The reasons that I think that he is a bum have little to do with his fighting skills in the ring. When Penn lost this fight it validated GSP in many ways. It said that Penn was wrong and NOT the champion. And, if Penn was the champion, then GSP now has that title. I think that this match will not mean that much down the road. It will become a footnote to GSP as he becomes the champion...

Sometimes your ignorance amazes me sub g. Yes you are entitled to that but I'm sorry this is probably one the funniest posts I've ever read. Also you know by belittling Penn like this you are also doing the same to Georges as well. Shows that you don't have much respect for either guy. Good call, man.

angryjonny · 03-05-2006, 09:57 PM

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Originally Posted by Greenman

As a great fighter, with an impressive record, Penn really should have showed a lot more class then the BS comments he made after the fight. If he "was" the true champ than last night was a championship match, GSP should have Baby J's belt around his waist.

That's what ticked me off, I respected BJ a lot before that fight, and very little after.

So a fighter can't be disappointed after he loses? How many times did Georges say that he only lost to Hughes because he mentally gave up? And he "was" the true champ because he kicked the crap out of Hughes. And no Matt didn't just "slip" to whoever thinks that. BJ put him there with a punch then proceeded to choke him out.

subgenius · 03-06-2006, 08:01 AM

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Originally Posted by angryjonny

Sometimes your ignorance amazes me sub g. Yes you are entitled to that but I'm sorry this is probably one the funniest posts I've ever read. Also you know by belittling Penn like this you are also doing the same to Georges as well. Shows that you don't have much respect for either guy. Good call, man.

You are free to interpret words any way that you like. There is no humor in my post. That merely demonstrates your own ignorance, which is your right.

I don't like Penn. He did not deserve to be in the octagon with GSP. Penn was stuck on his own greatness. Then, that evaporated. It's gone. Penn can no longer make that idiotic claim that he is the champion. Penn can no longer rest on his laurels of defeating Hughes. Penn will not get another title shot for a very long time (at least a year or more).

No, a greater fighter in GSP will go on and fight Hughes. That is what should have happened at the last PPV, and we ALL know that. Penn did not deserve to fight GSP for the #1 contender spot. If anyone was to fight GSP for the #1 contender spot it ought to have been Karo Parisyan -- he is the real #1 in line, not Gracie, not Penn, and not even GSP. Only an injury upsets this, and that ought to have automatically given GSP a title shot.

The GSP-Penn fight was a meaningless fight. Penn showed that he is not the end all and be all of MMA. Penn showed that he could not capitalize on a weak and wounded opponent -- for THREE ROUNDS. Come on man, Frank Trigg put it to Hughes much more savagely after that shot to the twig and berries that Penn did to GSP. Where was that Penn greatness? Did he leave it behind at K-1 Heroes?

subgenius · 03-06-2006, 08:05 AM

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Originally Posted by angryjonny

So a fighter can't be disappointed after he loses? How many times did Georges say that he only lost to Hughes because he mentally gave up? And he "was" the true champ because he kicked the crap out of Hughes. And no Matt didn't just "slip" to whoever thinks that. BJ put him there with a punch then proceeded to choke him out.

You cannot defend that complete BS comment that Penn gave after he so clearly lost to GSP. Penn is scum for not accepting the end with dignity and integrity. It only makes me more and more right about him. GSP was blaming HIMSELF for losing to Hughes. GSP never blamed any judges or some outside BS on his loss. GSP accepted that HE LOST.

And, we all now know that Penn could never repeat his performance with Hughes. Penn could not defeat Hughes again like he did before. Penn looked like a total mid to low level fighter in the GSP fight. All that made Penn seem like he had a chance was a poke in the eye and a glancing shot to the nose that made it bleed.

Jras0001 · 03-06-2006, 08:27 AM

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Originally Posted by subgenius

You cannot defend that complete BS comment that Penn gave after he so clearly lost to GSP. Penn is scum for not accepting the end with dignity and integrity. It only makes me more and more right about him. GSP was blaming HIMSELF for losing to Hughes. GSP never blamed any judges or some outside BS on his loss. GSP accepted that HE LOST.

And, we all now know that Penn could never repeat his performance with Hughes. Penn could not defeat Hughes again like he did before. Penn looked like a total mid to low level fighter in the GSP fight. All that made Penn seem like he had a chance was a poke in the eye and a glancing shot to the nose that made it bleed.

wow, bitter much? there are several anger management classes or other types of professional help you could seek out...look into it.

subgenius · 03-06-2006, 08:39 AM

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Originally Posted by Jras0001

wow, bitter much? there are several anger management classes or other types of professional help you could seek out...look into it.

No, I certainly will not look into it. There is absolutley no need. What a rificulous suggestion... Why should I be bitter about watching my least liked fighter lose a match?

What made me excited is that this chump BJ Penn tried to pull a fast one. He actually thought that he could make believe that he was the champion. There is only one WW champion in the UFC, and his name is Matt Hughes. Maybe, if Penn was thinking more about the fight with GSP and less about shining his (stripped) WW title, then maybe Penn might have won against GSP.

Where was that greatness that everybody talked about in Penn? Where were the skills? Why did he fizzle out after only one round? Why was Penn so badly out of shape that he could not even submitt GSP when he had the chance? He was not even able to capitalize on that eye poke.

Everything that Penn did wrong made GSP look greater and better. GSP overcame an illegal eye poke and bloody nose -- he said that he was seeing double for the entire first round! A great fighter would have KO'ed GSP. That is what Liddell would have done. He is a great fighter. Penn is not.

angryjonny · 03-06-2006, 08:41 AM

You're right there wasn't any humor in your post. Just laughing because of the lack of respect you are showing for Penn and in turn St. Pierre. Like I said Penn almost had Georges knocked out. But Georges didn't give up this time. He should get respect for that. And if Penn is such a bum, a bum who ripped Georges up in the first but gave up after that. Then I guess he doesn't stand a chance with Hughes. And your short memory must be blocking out the fact that Penn himself said this was a title shot for him. Yeah, that's real disrespectful and idiotic. And why does he have to forget that he totally dominated Hughes? Something that no one else has done that way. Your blind nuthugging and constant fighter bashing sometimes amazes me.

sosomomonono · 03-06-2006, 08:44 AM

GSP showed the heart and he got lucky that he pulled through a decision win. Hes lucky the judges dont score on damage but on octogon control...........Penn gave yall's pretty boy an ass whooping, what did GSP do too Penn besides get some take downs and survive????? oh well

subgenius · 03-06-2006, 08:53 AM

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Originally Posted by angryjonny

You're right there wasn't any humor in your post. Just laughing because of the lack of respect you are showing for Penn and in turn St. Pierre. Like I said Penn almost had Georges knocked out. But Georges didn't give up this time. He should get respect for that. And if Penn is such a bum, a bum who ripped Georges up in the first but gave up after that. Then I guess he doesn't stand a chance with Hughes. And your short memory must be blocking out the fact that Penn himself said this was a title shot for him. Yeah, that's real disrespectful and idiotic. And why does he have to forget that he totally dominated Hughes? Something that no one else has done that way. Your blind nuthugging and constant fighter bashing sometimes amazes me.

Why does Penn saying this is a title shot for GSP mean anything? Penn is not the champion. He is someone that did not have the intelligence to stay and defend his title when he had it. Oh, he just HAD to go fight other fighters in other promotions. He could not wait to lose the title. In my mind, Penn left because he knew that he could not defend that title. He knew that he would lose it back to Hughes in any rematch.

And, just because you disrespect GSP does not mean that you can infuse that ideology into my words. That meaning simply is not there. Unless I say it myself, it is not true. You don't get to say what I mean. I do.

You knew how I felt long before this match. You must surely be upset that The Prodigy got beat. Worse, The Prodigy had the full blown advantage with a poke in the eye and he still could not get the job done. Everything you guys said about Penn's so-called greatness is now worthless. Penn never deserved this shot at GSP's #1 contender status.

Penn could NEVER repeat a win over Hughes. The fighter that Penn was two years ago is gone. We all saw that in the Penn-GSP fight. Penn could not win a match over a wounded and bleeding and nearly blinded opponent. If that eye poke never happened, then GSP would have easily thoroughly dominated Penn in dramatically powerful fasion. Look at what GSP did wounded, then imagine how bad it would be for Penn when GSP can see clearly and does not have a cut to his eye lid...

angryjonny · 03-06-2006, 09:25 AM

Sure I wanted BJ to win. But like I said long before the fight, I wouldn't be upset if Georges won. You are the one who is the hater of the opposite fighter. Your comments are proof of that. I have respect for both. And for a guy who was so underserving for a #1 contendor fight he didn't have much problems with the guy who everyone thought was invincible. You must seem to forget that this was a split decision. You are talking like Georges went in and just mauled him. Like sosomomonono said Georges "survived" and got a couple takedowns. Try for once to get past your hate and look at what really happened, and also try to look for something besides the "eye poke" I know it will be hard but just try. You can do it. I have faith!

Jras0001 · 03-06-2006, 09:37 AM

subg, you just come across as being bitter, biased, and somewhat hateful in your post. i see the point youre making but disagree with the delivery of it.

two_guns_blazing · 03-06-2006, 09:43 AM

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Originally Posted by sosomomonono

GSP showed the heart and he got lucky that he pulled through a decision win. Hes lucky the judges dont score on damage but on octogon control...........Penn gave yall's pretty boy an ass whooping, what did GSP do too Penn besides get some take downs and survive????? oh well

Did we watch the same fight? GSP got "lucky"? And for the damage that was done, I'm pretty sure that the eyepoke was unintentional, and that the judges realized that. Because I'm real sure that when Penn through that punch he thought, "Man, I think this is a good place for a poke in the eye!". I'll give him all the credit for the shot to the nose, that was a great punch. But the fact that he didn't/couldn't follow it up is of no fault to GSP. So in your book, a bloody nose from a single punch counts more than winning two of three rounds?

angryjonny · 03-06-2006, 09:47 AM

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Originally Posted by two_guns_blazing

Did we watch the same fight? GSP got "lucky"? And for the damage that was done, I'm pretty sure that the eyepoke was unintentional, and that the judges realized that. Because I'm real sure that when Penn through that punch he thought, "Man, I think this is a good place for a poke in the eye!". I'll give him all the credit for the shot to the nose, that was a great punch. But the fact that he didn't/couldn't follow it up is of no fault to GSP. So in your book, a bloody nose from a single punch counts more than winning two of three rounds?

This "eye poke" that everyone keeps talking about needs to realize that yes his eye getting messed up was unintentional. The punch to the face was not.

subgenius · 03-06-2006, 09:53 AM

I am looking at what really happened. The eye poke is all that saved Penn from a humiliatiing defeat. You talk like the eye poke was legit. It was not. And, I am not saying it was done on purpose, but it DID happen. Chuck Liddell (a fighter far superior to Penn, IMO) dominated an equally great fighter in Couture just after an eye poke. Penn could not get that job done. He failed to capitalize.

Survived? No, GSP was never in full survival mode like Hughes was against Frank Trigg (another fighter I think is better than Penn, IMO). Frank Trigg put it to Hughes after that nut-shot (again, not done on purpose). Hughes WAS in full survival mode. He overcame, and Hughes won in the end. It was not easy. GSP did not fall into that level of survival...

What did GSP and Penn do in that first round? I counted strikes (kicks, knees, elbows, and punches). Penn did not really do very much in that first round. He threw 56 punchs and landed 13. GSP threw 45 punches and landed nine. GSP threw 25 kicks/knees and landed 13. Penn threw only six kicks/knees and landed only six (they were all knees in the clinch, no open kicks).

Penn landed only three or four truly effective punches in round one. One was a poke to the eye and not really an effective punch outside of that poke. One was a glancing shot to the nose that made it bleed but was otherwise not effective. Penn landed no truly hard face shots other than jab harrassment. The knees that Penn threw did little to nothing. Penn did not essentially dominate round one at all...

GSP, by contrast, accomplished some important points in the first round. He did not succumb to an eye poke like Randy Couture did against Liddell. He did not succumb to the nose bleed either. He continued to fight and score strikes even though (by his own words) he was seeing double. What GSP did that was so masterful in the first round was the leg kicks and body kicks. If you wondered why Penn gassed out and was ineffective in round two and three, then you should look at the leg kicks again. GSP made Penn slow down and become an easier mark.

I have no doubt that GSP would have dominated Penn just like he did to Trigg, Sherk, and others had the eye poke never occurred. GSP showed himself to be the smarter fighter. He won that fight. Penn clearly lost. And, worse, Penn lost with no style or class. He showed that he had no heart.