Is Penn going to keep fighting in the UFC?

subgenius · 03-06-2006, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarDawg

Sorry bro I saw it different. I saw Penn blocking slow kicks from George. I saw george face get battered from hard shots. The Only thing George did was take Penn to the ground and then only managed very little offense. Ive watched the fight 5 times now. George got beat up. No disrespect to your view and opinion. But Penn made GSP look PLAIN. And while saying that Penn looked rusty ..... No real agression. I guess he thought he would get a KO. But that never happened. He really should have taken it to the ground and Subed GSP and been done with it. GSP did what he needed to . Go the distance and hope for a decesion. He did what he needed. While some will say it was poke to the eye that can't be proven. Unless there is better footage. Throwing a punch to the face and the eye gets in the way is part of the sport. Just don't let a digit be sticking out when it contacts. But if a closed fist and a Knuckles get the ole eye, so be it, great shot. Not that I want anyone to get there eye damaged.
I am just a fan of MMA. Its just how you want to look at it. Penn block nearly every kick George let loose. The authur at MMA.com also had Penn winning the fight. But thats just his opinion also. Great fight anyhow. Can't wait till Hughs George II ... WD

I can only say that after watching this fight for a third time today (I watched it twice the first night and twice on Sunday), Penn did NOT ever land a hard shot to GSP's face in that first round. The only times he came close in the first round were the eye poke and the nose bleed shots.

He landed at least five solid body punches, and maybe one solid knee to the body in the first round. Penn definately did not block one solid spin kick to the body from GSP in the first round. Penn clearly blocked only one or two of the numerous leg kicks from GSP. A kick to the thigh will slow you down and limit the effectiveness of striking power. That is basic MMA.

Penn did connect a lot with shots to the side or back of GSP's head in the first round, but those never had any real affect. In the second and third rounds Penn was slower and less effective, IMO. And, that was due to the leg licks in the first round.

AikaImmortal · 03-06-2006, 12:16 PM

I honestly scored the fight as a draw and if it had been under k-1 rules, would have called for an extra round.. way too close and to take a page from bas
'this is why i am glad im not a judge'

angryjonny · 03-06-2006, 12:29 PM

Also if BJ's shoulder and hand hadn't been bothering him he would have thrown more power shots. Notice how he only threw jabs. That's not like BJ. An extra round would have been good. I just think it would have been even though. These two are just so good they almost nullify eachother.

sitnspin · 03-06-2006, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryjonny

Also if BJ's shoulder and hand hadn't been bothering him he would have thrown more power shots. Notice how he only threw jabs. That's not like BJ. An extra round would have been good. I just think it would have been even though. These two are just so good they almost nullify eachother.

Sorry, where did you get that his shoulder and hand were bothering him? I haven't heard him say that in an interview yet. Are you just basing that on what you saw in the fight?

And anyway, look at the damage Rich Franklin did on Saturday night with a broken hand and a broken foot.

subgenius · 03-06-2006, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryjonny

Also if BJ's shoulder and hand hadn't been bothering him he would have thrown more power shots. Notice how he only threw jabs. That's not like BJ. An extra round would have been good. I just think it would have been even though. These two are just so good they almost nullify eachother.

What was wrong with his shoulder and hand? It did seem like Penn was not throwing good shots -- just jabs.

I have to disagree, however... A fourth round would have been bad for Penn as tired as he was at the end of the third. GSP looked ready to go five rounds. I do not think Penn would make it past three. GSP's leg kicks to Penn's thigh made Penn ineffective in rounds two and three.

angryjonny · 03-06-2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sitnspin

Sorry, where did you get that his shoulder and hand were bothering him? I haven't heard him say that in an interview yet. Are you just basing that on what you saw in the fight?

And anyway, look at the damage Rich Franklin did on Saturday night with a broken hand and a broken foot.

Gross said his shoulder was jacked up and Lindland said that BJ's hand had been bothering him. Not taking anything away from Georges, I'm just saying that's why BJ never threw any power shots. You can still throw punches with a broken hand, but when your shoulder doesn't allow you to then that's a different story. Plus Jorge told him (Rich) to keep throwing punches anyway. So at least he listens to his corner. No matter how much risk is involved. I guess that's a true champ for ya.

No matter.

All four of these guys in the main events showed they are all amazing athletes and have incredible heart and talent. We should be happy that we get the honor of seeing them fight and not spend so much time bashing them. (not you sitnspin of course

)

angryjonny · 03-06-2006, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

What was wrong with his shoulder and hand? It did seem like Penn was not throwing good shots -- just jabs.

I have to disagree, however... A fourth round would have been bad for Penn as tired as he was at the end of the third. GSP looked ready to go five rounds. I do not think Penn would make it past three. GSP's leg kicks to Penn's thigh made Penn ineffective in rounds two and three.

I don't know man. They were both pretty messed up. You have to think that even though George's nose wasn't broken he had to have trouble breathing. Listen to his interview at the hospital. He sounds like he has tampons shoved up his nose. So he doesn't seem to be in as good of shape as you think. I think they both would have had trouble in an extra round. They need to have another match up. I think that would be great. Hopefully they both come in the best shape of their lives because it was obvious Penn didn't. Even though you hate his guts you have to admit that was not how BJ's performs when he's at his best.

subgenius · 03-06-2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryjonny

I don't know man. They were both pretty messed up. You have to think that even though George's nose wasn't broken he had to have trouble breathing. Listen to his interview at the hospital. He sounds like he has tampons shoved up his nose. So he doesn't seem to be in as good of shape as you think. I think they both would have had trouble in an extra round. They need to have another match up. I think that would be great. Hopefully they both come in the best shape of their lives because it was obvious Penn didn't. Even though you hate his guts you have to admit that was not how BJ's performs when he's at his best.

GSP was hurt, but I think that his conditioning and heart would carry him through five rounds. It had better. He will be facing Matt Hughes soon. I think that GSP will take the title from Matt Hughes. I say Matt Hughes because I do not feel that Royce Gracie will take that strap from Matt Hughes. It may be a great fight, but I see Matt Hughes beating Royce Gracie. Then GSP will take the belt from Matt Hughes.

It would make me happy to see BJ Penn get the first shot at GSP's WW title. I seriously doubt that BJ Penn will be able to count on another poke to the eye in any rematch with GSP. And, GSP-Penn 2 will be a great fight. I think that it would be the fight that we all wanted to see. The GSP-Penn 1 fight was a good fight, but it was tainted, IMO. Penn ruined it.

There really are only a few things that really pissed me off about Penn in GSP-Penn 1. You know that I disliked him prior to the match, but Penn did things that made it much easier for me to really dislike him now far more than before.

1. He came to the octagon with the WW title belt.
2. He came to the octagon with that "I'm the Champion" t-shirt.
3. He poked GSP in the eye (accidentally).
4. He acted without honor in the post-match interview.

All around I do not think that we saw the BJ Penn that we wanted to see. That stuff with his entrance could have been over-looked had he not poked GSP in the eye and had he not said what he did after the fight. The fight was tainted. I even think that some of the judges found those antics deplorable. The eye poke may have cost Penn something with those judges.

I want to see GSP-Penn 2 because I know that GSP can beat Penn. also, I think that Penn will not come with any better conditioning next time than he came with last time. That will just make it easier for GSP. But, I hope that he comes ready to go five rounds because I also want to see them both at their best. When GSP beat Penn again I want there to be no excuses or doubts.

WarDawg · 03-06-2006, 05:19 PM

.. This is a small Fight report over at MMA.com. By Cbear the author of the fight run down. This is exactly how I saw the first 2 rounds.

Round 1

Penn gets a huge fan ovation as does GSP. Fans know this fight is the big deal of the night.

Penn nails punches while GSP ties kicks that miss. BJ chant by crowd. Both are striking and BJ pokes GSP's right eye. Ref should have checked GSP right eye. GSP has blood on his nose. Spinning back kick by GSP but no damage. Penn is doing more damage. Penn has GSP off his game a little bit. Circling, clinch and GSP pushes Penn into cage but eats a couple of knees to body. Both deliver short knees to body. GSP tries single leg but Penn shrugs him off. Penn has GSP bloody on nose and maybe...eye. GSP looking bloody and getting hurt. Penn is being surgical and looks very relaxed. GSP looks ok but can't seem to dodge Penn’s left fist. Leg kick by G. Body shot by Penn. Jab by GSP connects but no damage. GSP hits a spinning back kick but no power. Clinch as the round ends. GSP is very frustrated and bloodied up. Looks like a big gash under his right eye.

Ref should have checked GSP's eye. Looks like it might have been a Chuck Liddell-style thumb from Penn.

Round 2

Both throwing punches and GSP tries kicks. Penn still connects on the left jab. Clinch and GSP tries to take Penn down and finally does on second try. GSP is in Penn’s guard. GSP hoping for the ground and pound but not getting it. Some small jabs to Penn's ribs but no damage. GSP stands up and comes down with 2 punches that connect to Penn's face. Penn very relaxed on the ground and he hops right up. Penn is connecting at will with punches even though GSP is defending--Penn gets thru. GSP's face is beaten up pretty good. Clinch at the fence, knee by GSP and fist by Penn. Penn is way more comfortable on standup than GSP. Nice roundhouse by GSP as they clinch against the fence again. Penn blocks knees by GSP. They separate the punch big at each other before clinching back again. More punches at fence as Penn connects, but no real damage by GSP. GSP takes down Penn and is in his guard as the bell rings. GSP face looks like a Ric Flair crimson mask. Penn looks very calm in his corner as Lindland lays down the law to him.
I have both rounds for Penn but Bravo thinks GSP won round 2. GSP's face looks like hamburger.

I guess it just like another poster stated. Accordding to what fighter you liked helps you see the fight how you want to see it. It was close and really kinda boring. When Penn put GSP in somekinds shoulder lock for a few seconds that was pretty cool. Love them sub moves.

Just remember. Matt Hughes beat GSP. hands down and fair and square. He tapped out to PAIN laying on his back.>>>>>>> Matt is the MAN in this 170 class. All others are wannabee's, Penn and GSP. Until they derail the Champ. To be the MAN you got to beat the MAN. GSP and PENN haven't done that. GSP was given a shot and failed. Penn was given an oppertunity with GSP and on the judges cards failed. Matt is at the Top of the hill watching the rest skamper up hill to reach him. I love this 170 class ... WD

lwbfl · 03-06-2006, 06:37 PM

Wow, an internet war. I've been very ill since the last fight of UFC 58 and haven't been on, but I didn't miss ANYTHING by missing this thread. I can't even read the rest of it, it's like my 4 and 6 year old arguing.

WarDawg · 03-06-2006, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lwbfl

Wow, an internet war. I've been very ill since the last fight of UFC 58 and haven't been on, but I didn't miss ANYTHING by missing this thread. I can't even read the rest of it, it's like my 4 and 6 year old arguing.

Here take a round house kick to the mid section swamp boy ( Dawgs RULE " ). LOL. ..... Yes argueing on the internet is like the "special olympics" no matter who wins , " Everyone is still Retarded " .

.... Its all in fun of discussion. I like all you guys and few GIRLS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...

WD

mepersoner · 03-06-2006, 07:37 PM

I'd just like to note that Penn hit St. Pierre with a knuckle, not an illegal eye poke.

angryjonny · 03-06-2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mepersoner

I'd just like to note that Penn hit St. Pierre with a knuckle, not an illegal eye poke.

You don't even have to say it was a knuckle. It was a punch that messed him up because it was so hard. It messed up his vision so everyone assumes it was an "eye poke" Pretty ignorant if you ask me. Especially since you can clearly see it in the gif you posted.

subgenius · 03-07-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryjonny

You don't even have to say it was a knuckle. It was a punch that messed him up because it was so hard. It messed up his vision so everyone assumes it was an "eye poke" Pretty ignorant if you ask me. Especially since you can clearly see it in the gif you posted.

It was not a puch at all. It was Penn flailing out in a panic moment. It had little to no power. His thumb was out. His thumbnail caused the cut. It was so clearly an eye poke, but it was accidental. Penn did not intend to poke GSP in the eye. However, it did happen. I doubt that any knuckle actually hit anything. It was desperation. Penn's knuckle, if they hit anything, barely grazed GSP's face.

mepersoner · 03-07-2006, 06:20 PM

Easily slipping the punch and cutting GSP with a looping jab = desperate eye poke.

Also, that graze changed where GSP's momentum was going.

subgenius · 03-07-2006, 06:49 PM

I guess it is perception, because I see GSP switching his legs and hip stance in preparation of a hit. The impact was nominal from the punch. Notice that GSP almost got his right hand up for a block -- he knew that jab was coming. GSP's head shows almost no knockback from the jab.

It was not a punch meant to cause any serious damage. It was a harrassment jab thrown as an attempt to get GSP to back away. Look at the punch that GSP threw just prior to that jab. That punch had power. Penn was just countering with a wild jab that did not have any power.

mepersoner · 03-07-2006, 07:30 PM

Yeah, if you have eyes and you see a fist coming towards your face you tend to know you're about to get hit.

Punches are not usually thrown with the intent to cut. Jabs are not usually KO punches, but will wear the opponent down. I'm not entirely sure, but GSP's punch appears to be a hook, thrown with nasty intentions. Intentions are not what cause damage or win fights. I'm sure GSP intended to connect and intended to block - he failed on both accounts and that's why he was cut. BJ capitalized and intended to hit GSP, succeeded, and the cut was a consequence of those intentions.

subgenius · 03-08-2006, 10:47 AM

I agree with you about that jab. I also think that BJ Penn was very close to a KO win right there. Had Penn's jab landed more solidly (with no cut) and had that follow-up right punch from Penn (was that an over-hand hook or right cross) connected, then he might have KO'ed GSP. We all know that Penn has KO power or heavy hands. I think that GSP did well to avoid the punch that came after that jab (that cut him).

The Phenom · 03-08-2006, 05:25 PM

Dude, I don't know what post fight interview everyone else saw, but I just got done watching the fight on the youtube.com and I don't get what BJ said that made him such a whiner? He said he thought he did more damage and that he GSP was good fighter? I know this is kind of rehashing old stuff, but I just watched the fight so i had to speak on what I just saw.

GSP did win the fight, but he basically won it on takedowns and he did no damage whatsoever to BJ when he had him down. I think that if you are going to give round points to someone for takedowns, then you should give the same points for escaping from the ground which BJ did do several times. Like I said, BJ lost the fight and GSP won it, but there is no way anyone can tell me that GSP dominated Penn in any fashion.

RebLMunkE · 03-08-2006, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Penn is not the fighter that he once was. I do not know that he can find that fighter inside of himself anymore. At this point, I bet Sanchez, Diaz, or Riggs could beat Penn...

I'm going to pretend you didn't just say Diaz could beat Penn...........Did you see how bad he beat on GSP and if he broke his hand or what ever thats probably why he didn't keep pressing like he did in round one.

Riggs would have a punchers chance but most likly lose by SUB. Diego and Diaz would both probably get punched more in one round then they have in their life LoL and get tapped out if it went to the ground.