Andrei Arlovski vs Fedor Emalienenko

angryjonny · 04-01-2006, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Danny]

The only two good heavyweights in the UFC are Monsoon and Arlovski. Vera hasn't beaten anybody yet at all. That not his fault but he needs a lot more fights before you can say he could do well. Cruz is very limited on his stand up and only has 2 fights under his belt granted one is over Mir.

You know the same can be said for Mr. Arlovski. Who has he beaten that's any better than Vera's opponents? Arlovski has a weak chin and who knows how he can do on the ground since in the couple minutes of fighting he's done over the last couple years have shown nothing on the ground. I'm not saying that he isn't but it's just a big a question to Andrei as it is for Vera. Andrei has only had a few more fights than Vera has.

[Danny] · 04-01-2006, 08:57 PM

Sylvia and Buentello are a little better than the fighters Vera has fought though. Truth is like you said, we wont know with Arlovski sadly untill he steps into a Pride ring.

subgenius · 04-01-2006, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Danny]

Sylvia and Buentello are a little better than the fighters Vera has fought though. Truth is like you said, we wont know with Arlovski sadly untill he steps into a Pride ring.

Nah, we will see it in the UFC. The HW division is expanding.

angryjonny · 04-01-2006, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Danny]

Sylvia and Buentello are a little better than the fighters Vera has fought though. Truth is like you said, we wont know with Arlovski sadly untill he steps into a Pride ring.

Well you know how I feel about Sylvia. A lot of people disagree but I don't think he's all that. Buentello, as much as I like him, had a horrible showing against Aldana. I'd like to see that fight where Gilbert doesn't show up to be Paul's moving heavy bag. I do think that Monson and Cruz as potentially Vera would be good tests for Andrei but I do agree I would love to see how he fares against Fedor, Minotauro, and Mirko. Hell I'd even throw Hunt's name in there just because that could be a great fight too.

[Danny] · 04-01-2006, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Nah, we will see it in the UFC. The HW division is expanding.

You say Pride fans are biased.

subgenius · 04-01-2006, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Danny]

You say Pride fans are biased.

Nah, I just do not see AA leaving the UFC. I would be willing to bet 1000 points that he stays in the UFC after his next fight. He is going to be around the UFC for a long time.

Jras0001 · 04-01-2006, 11:45 PM

the only reason i think that AA will remain in the ufc is this: the ufc simply can not afford to let him go to another organization. AA is marketable, likeable, and he is a hell of a fighter. at the moment, he is the hw devision. if they let him go, i think they know what the devision will be left with. right now, that is some up and comers, some people that do ok, a recovering frank mir that no one knows if he will return to glory or not, and some cans...such as eilers.

thats the reason i believe aa will stay right where he is. the ufc knows where it needs to spend the money to make the money. they proved that by the randy / chuck III, where each grossed around 240K for the fight. also, everyone knows that royce gracie doesnt show up to fight unless he makes the money, and its usually six figures. the gracie / hughes fight, even thought is more of an exhibition and not a title fight, is going to bring in a LOT of ppv viewers. the ufc isnt stupid, itll shell out money when it needs to.

subgenius · 04-02-2006, 10:00 AM

This is a difference that I see between the UFC and PRIDE other than the octagon and the rules and the weight division differences. PRIDE seems to have hit a high plateau, which is great, but I don't see them moving up from there. And, that plateau may yet still be higher than where the UFC currently resides. PRIDE seems very concerned with quantity of fighters, and sometimes I wonder about the average of the over-all quality.

However, the UFC appears to be on a rising scale, and has not leveled off. Every PPV, every TUF episode, and every UFN seems to increase the popularity and market power of the UFC. This has a lot to do with Spike TV. That network opened up this whole weekend for the UFC. All day Saturday was opened for a marathon of TUF1. Sunday is for an all-day TUF2 marathon. Does that happen in Japan for PRIDE FC (because we all know it never happens for PRIDE FC here in the USA).

Please, do not get me wrong. PFC has tremendous fight talent at their top end levels. But, when I see 90 Japanese MMA fighters listed and most do not have impressive records, then I have to woder about numbers versus actual worth. An average fighter in PRIDE FC may never get due attention. Compare the lists of fighters for PRIDE and the UFC at their sites. They list everyone that ever fought for them, not just the current fighters. The PFC lists look big, but they have so many names no one will ever know.

AA may be looking at that and thinking that he wants to be the stand out face in a small but highly talented group. In PRIDE, he would become nearly anonymous. Most BIG fans of PRIDE around here are already saying that the PFC would start AA at or near the low end and not at the top like he TRULY deserves. Add to that a small offer of a contract from PRIDE (according to AA himself in an interview some months back, it was posted in a thread here), and you will not see AA in PRIDE FC outside of some special inter-promotional fight.

SeikanJudanski · 04-02-2006, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

AA may be looking at that and thinking that he wants to be the stand out face in a small but highly talented group. In PRIDE, he would become nearly anonymous. Most BIG fans of PRIDE around here are already saying that the PFC would start AA at or near the low end and not at the top like he TRULY deserves. Add to that a small offer of a contract from PRIDE (according to AA himself in an interview some months back, it was posted in a thread here), and you will not see AA in PRIDE FC outside of some special inter-promotional fight.

I don´t think Pride would let AA start at the bottom, they would probably give him CroCop, Nog, Hunt, Kharitonov or any of the other big players to start with. You can´t expect him to walk in a get a title shot against Fedor. If he beats any of those guys he deserves a shot, specially with him being the UFC champ.

[Danny] · 04-02-2006, 12:46 PM

My thing is, who the heck has Arlovski beat that makes him a contender to fight at the top? The only thing Arlovski really has is a shiny peice of metal around his waist which really doesn't mean ****. Buentello has a belt, does he deserve to be fighting with the top guys in Pride? Uhh no.

I personally think that Arlovski would have great fights against teh lower tier guys like Alexsander, Coleman, Sergei, and Barnett. But he would be over his head against the top three.

Just because you're a champion i teh second biggest organization in the world, doesn't mean you're a contender. Specially when time Sylvia is your number one contender and the two guys fighting for the 2nd place spot have had 2 and 1 fight in the UFC in the least 2 years. The UFC heavyweight division stinks and Arlovski hasn't been tested yet, thus it doesn't matter where he starts in Pride.

SeikanJudanski · 04-02-2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Danny]

My thing is, who the heck has Arlovski beat that makes him a contender to fight at the top? The only thing Arlovski really has is a shiny peice of metal around his waist which really doesn't mean ****. Buentello has a belt, does he deserve to be fighting with the top guys in Pride? Uhh no.

I personally think that Arlovski would have great fights against teh lower tier guys like Alexsander, Coleman, Sergei, and Barnett. But he would be over his head against the top three.

Just because you're a champion i teh second biggest organization in the world, doesn't mean you're a contender. Specially when time Sylvia is your number one contender and the two guys fighting for the 2nd place spot have had 2 and 1 fight in the UFC in the least 2 years. The UFC heavyweight division stinks and Arlovski hasn't been tested yet, thus it doesn't matter where he starts in Pride.

Pride knows they can make some money putting a fight together between him and somebody from the top, specially since they want to win some UFC fans for Pride, this would be an excellent chance, but this is just a guess. However if he DOES by a chance of like 20% beat Crocop or Nog... then he would actually deserve a shot. Personally I think he doesn´t have a chance against the big three.

subgenius · 04-02-2006, 01:23 PM

Can we say vastly under-rated? Sure, I knew we could. The UFC HW title means nothing? What a crock of bull. That belt should mean that he is the equal of Fedor in status, if not in reality of fights. PRIDE FC would be irresponsible to not take AA and put him in with Fedor immediately. They would be stupid to not put him in with Nog or Cro Cop. It would be an insult to fight anyone below that. So, no AA in PRIDE FC. Why should he suffer such an insult when he is the King in America?

[Danny] · 04-02-2006, 02:07 PM

Ufc Heavyweight Championship doesn't mean **** because the division is nothing but **** other than Arlovski and Monson. Just because your a king of the worst division in the organization doesn't mean your "status" should be up there with a champion in a division as stacked as Pride's heavyweight division.

SeikanJudanski · 04-02-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

Can we say vastly under-rated? Sure, I knew we could. The UFC HW title means nothing? What a crock of bull. That belt should mean that he is the equal of Fedor in status, if not in reality of fights. PRIDE FC would be irresponsible to not take AA and put him in with Fedor immediately. They would be stupid to not put him in with Nog or Cro Cop. It would be an insult to fight anyone below that. So, no AA in PRIDE FC. Why should he suffer such an insult when he is the King in America?

It would be a good financial move of Pride to set AA up with a top fighter from Pride. It´s all about the marketing, but if you are going to look at it from a fighting perspective I have to agree with Danny here.. UFC HW division is nothing worth mentioning, so the "king" of that division is a lonesome king, not because he is "that good", it´s just the UFC HWD is "that bad".

Fighters from all over the world come to Pride to compete with the best, to be the best. Those who want attraction, fame and glory without being really tested stay in the UFC. At least that is how the HW division is right now in the UFC. The UFC does have some good fighters, it´s just they are not in the HW division. I guess there will be thousands of threads in the Internet speculating about how AA would do in Pride, we all know how Fedor would do in the UFC. Pride´s door is always open.. if AA ever wants to test his skills, step up.

subgenius · 04-02-2006, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeikanJudanski

It would be a good financial move of Pride to set AA up with a top fighter from Pride. It´s all about the marketing, but if you are going to look at it from a fighting perspective I have to agree with Danny here.. UFC HW division is nothing worth mentioning, so the "king" of that division is a lonesome king, not because he is "that good", it´s just the UFC HWD is "that bad".

Fighters from all over the world come to Pride to compete with the best, to be the best. Those who want attraction, fame and glory without being really tested stay in the UFC. At least that is how the HW division is right now in the UFC. The UFC does have some good fighters, it´s just they are not in the HW division. I guess there will be thousands of threads in the Internet speculating about how AA would do in Pride, we all know how Fedor would do in the UFC. Pride´s door is always open.. if AA ever wants to test his skills, step up.

So, the best HWs are going PRIDE? Right? Because I would match any of the best UFC WW, MWs and LHW with PRIDE's versions anyday. (I know, the weight classes have some variable differences, we discussed that before -- it would mean nothing in the end.) Some good fighters? I think that PRIDE has "some" good fighters as well. The UFC is trying to bring in more serious HWs. By this time next year, the situation will be different.

By 2008, I am betting that many of the PRIDE HWs will be seen in the UFC -- maybe even FEDOR! Nah, he will never lose that belt. That is why I see Cro Cop and Nog (both losers to Fedor) in the UFC within two years. AA does not have to leave to be tested. The tests will be brought to him.

Whether people want to admit it or not, PRIDE has a problem. They have a champion that seemingly is unbeatable. He is exhausting the HW division in PRIDE. Fedor fights a lot. He has not lost a MMA match in five years. Three fights in 2005. Five fights in 2004. Five fights in 2003. three fights in 2002. Five fights in 2001. And, four fights in 2000. He has not lost a match since the Tsuyoshi Kohsaka fight on December 22nd 2000 -- two fights in one night (he beat Ricardo Arona that night). Except for the NC with Nog, Fedor has NEVER lost a PRIDE fight.

Where else can Fedor go? Who can they throw at him in PRIDE that has a prayer of winning? No one... Even AA cannot beat Fedor, IMO. Fedor will retire a champion -- an unbeaten champion. That is what PRIDE's HW division looks like... I guess that is okay, if you like seeing Nog get beat by Fedor every few months.

gazbrook · 04-02-2006, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryjonny

Well you know how I feel about Sylvia. A lot of people disagree but I don't think he's all that. Buentello, as much as I like him, had a horrible showing against Aldana. I'd like to see that fight where Gilbert doesn't show up to be Paul's moving heavy bag. I do think that Monson and Cruz as potentially Vera would be good tests for Andrei but I do agree I would love to see how he fares against Fedor, Minotauro, and Mirko. Hell I'd even throw Hunt's name in there just because that could be a great fight too.

I do like Jeff Monson ,but think he will have the same problems as Ian Freeman had with Arlovski due to the reach factor.

Jras0001 · 04-02-2006, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazbrook

I do like Jeff Monson ,but think he will have the same problems as Ian Freeman had with Arlovski due to the reach factor.

ya, but for monson's height, he has a long reach. much longer than you'd expect from someone built like he is.

angryjonny · 04-02-2006, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazbrook

I do like Jeff Monson ,but think he will have the same problems as Ian Freeman had with Arlovski due to the reach factor.

I think it was more than just the reach for Ian. It was like he didn't show up for that fight. But you are right reach can be a problem but I would be willing to bet anything that Monson can handle any fighter in the UFC on the ground with Cruz being the only one who could possibly out grapple him. Every one talks about this and that about Andrei's sambo but I haven't seen it so I can't say for sure. No one can really.

[Danny] · 04-02-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

So, the best HWs are going PRIDE? Right? Because I would match any of the best UFC WW, MWs and LHW with PRIDE's versions anyday. (I know, the weight classes have some variable differences, we discussed that before -- it would mean nothing in the end.) Some good fighters? I think that PRIDE has "some" good fighters as well. The UFC is trying to bring in more serious HWs. By this time next year, the situation will be different.

By 2008, I am betting that many of the PRIDE HWs will be seen in the UFC -- maybe even FEDOR! Nah, he will never lose that belt. That is why I see Cro Cop and Nog (both losers to Fedor) in the UFC within two years. AA does not have to leave to be tested. The tests will be brought to him.

Whether people want to admit it or not, PRIDE has a problem. They have a champion that seemingly is unbeatable. He is exhausting the HW division in PRIDE. Fedor fights a lot. He has not lost a MMA match in five years. Three fights in 2005. Five fights in 2004. Five fights in 2003. three fights in 2002. Five fights in 2001. And, four fights in 2000. He has not lost a match since the Tsuyoshi Kohsaka fight on December 22nd 2000 -- two fights in one night (he beat Ricardo Arona that night). Except for the NC with Nog, Fedor has NEVER lost a PRIDE fight.

Where else can Fedor go? Who can they throw at him in PRIDE that has a prayer of winning? No one... Even AA cannot beat Fedor, IMO. Fedor will retire a champion -- an unbeaten champion. That is what PRIDE's HW division looks like... I guess that is okay, if you like seeing Nog get beat by Fedor every few months.

Mark Hunt and Josh Barnett, that's who.

Jras0001 · 04-03-2006, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryjonny

I think it was more than just the reach for Ian. It was like he didn't show up for that fight. But you are right reach can be a problem but I would be willing to bet anything that Monson can handle any fighter in the UFC on the ground with Cruz being the only one who could possibly out grapple him. Every one talks about this and that about Andrei's sambo but I haven't seen it so I can't say for sure. No one can really.

ya, the only thing ive seen from him on the ground was when he knocked tim down and was smart enough to go for what was open, the leg submission instead of trying to lay on him and pound him. it didnt take long to submit him once he started working on it. but thats not very telling abotu what hes capable of on the ground...