Bruce Lee in the UFC

Reildeal · 04-17-2006, 07:14 PM

He was and is "THE" badass, that's all there is to it.

Greenman · 04-17-2006, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subgenius

beating the snot out of someone all the while making those killer screams

Dammit I want one of the fighters of today to do that. Make it his signature, imagine Chuck having some battle cry he shouts after every big punch he lands.

SmashingMachine · 04-17-2006, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaddT189

Bruce Lee would get dominated in the UFC. He would be fighting Yves Edwards, Gomi, Penn (if he slimmed up) He would not be able to keep off the ground in a match with them. Martial Arts has evolved more in the past fifteen years then in two thousand before that. With the evolution of MMA people have been able to see what works and what doesn't. Bruce Lee beat up strikers that weren't as evolved as the fighters today. He wouldn't be "the greatest."

Well, Bruce was always evolving his game, and as MMA has evolved so would have he. I don't think you truly realize his power in his strikes. I read an article on him in Muscle and Fitness, several years ago, it talked about his strength and Power. They claimed that pound for pound he was one of the strongest men in the world. At 138 lbs, he could take a 70 lb dumbell, pull it up to shoulder height and straighten his arm out and hold it for 30 seconds. I was benching 400 at the time I read this and I couldn't do it with a 35 lb dumbell. It also said how he could kick a 300 lb heavy bag so hard that it would go up and slap the ceiling. That mixed with his speed and he'd destroy everything he came into contact with. Bruce would've been a beast in MMA.:sport-smi

mepersoner · 04-18-2006, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecreewarrior

He did fight good fighters...8th degree blackbelts around the world would fight him on the street anywhere, anytime. Back in the day when Bruce was around he didn't know a ground game was so important. I think if he were still alive today he would spend months working on his ground game. Like subgenious said,
If Bruce Lee were still alive today and was asked to compete in UFC or Pride he would train extremely hard to be the most well rounded fighter out there.
Bruce had no problem training himself and didnt just train his body, he trained his mind beyond any fighter I know of. How else do you think little old slim 185 pound Bruce Lee was able to send a man his size flyinh across the room with only a one inch space to punch? Strength? I dont think so.

Bruce Lee weighed more like 135 pounds.

Bruce Lee's legs were actually not that strong. He squatted the average weight for his size. His arms however, according to the weight and reps he used, were stronger than most olympic athletes today in his weight class.

Like I said, Bruce Lee is overrated on these boards. A lot of the stuff it is said he did you just have to look at and go, "Is that even physically possible?" Kick a 300 pound bag to the ceiling my ass. You can find some interviews with some of the people he actually trained that will tell more of what he could really do.

Finally, Lee did steroids, so he would've had to stop those to fight in Pride or UFC.

subgenius · 04-18-2006, 03:35 AM

I think maybe you need to post some links to respectable websites before making such wild accusations...

SmashingMachine · 04-18-2006, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mepersoner

Bruce Lee weighed more like 135 pounds.

Bruce Lee's legs were actually not that strong. He squatted the average weight for his size. His arms however, according to the weight and reps he used, were stronger than most olympic athletes today in his weight class.

Like I said, Bruce Lee is overrated on these boards. A lot of the stuff it is said he did you just have to look at and go, "Is that even physically possible?" Kick a 300 pound bag to the ceiling my ass. You can find some interviews with some of the people he actually trained that will tell more of what he could really do.

Finally, Lee did steroids, so he would've had to stop those to fight in Pride or UFC.

Mass x Acceleration=Force...that said, it doesn't matter how much he can squat. Whens the last time you've kicked a 300 lb heavy bag and made it go up and slap the ceiling? By the way, that was an eye-witness account from a jui-jitsu guy who worked out with Bruce. Don't flap your gums about stuff you don't what you're talking about...LOL...grab reality about Bruce Dude.

SeikanJudanski · 04-18-2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mepersoner

Finally, Lee did steroids, so he would've had to stop those to fight in Pride or UFC.

Where did you get that he took steroids from? Painkillers yes, Steroids..source?

thecreewarrior · 04-18-2006, 11:03 AM

mepersoner do you know anything about bruce? You shouldn't make such accusations about someone you obviously know nothing about. And besides your strength has little effect on your kicks or punches, look at Matt Hughes that guy is unbelievable strong yet he doesn't have the KO power worth ****. And all the crazy stuff Bruce did was all witness by media, wrestlers, jui-jitsu masters and anyone you could think of. Bruce wasn't trying to do stuff to "look and go" he did it because he wanted to show people that there are no limits and with the right mind you could do anything. I don't know how many times I've said in this thread that Bruce had an incredible mind.
There was a reason he did those screams while he landed a strike. He did it to focus every ounce of his energy to that one punch or kick. With proper meditation and conentration you could do amazing things. How else do you think old 70 year old masters are able to break threw 6 bricks of concrete with they're head or do a one fingure hand stand?? It's not called steroids it's called Chi.

mepersoner · 04-18-2006, 11:43 AM

Haha, do I know anything about Bruce? Yeah, apparently I know a whole lot more than most of you...

http://www.bruceandbrandon.info/inde...ce/essay2.html

http://www.time.com/time/time100/her...ile/lee01.html - page 3 mentions his steroids

If you need another dozen sources on his steroid use, tell me.

http://www.bruceleedivinewind.com/joelewis.html

A few highlights:

Joe Lewis - I do not remember much about that 700 pound bag. It sounds like one of those old rumors. Bruce had a good fast side kick but if you watch some of those old atapes, you can tell he always lunged from too great a distance. This makes the bag move but throws your timing way off. You need to be close to the tirget when you fire so your reaction time and your response time are quick, not just one. Timeing speed is both.You should never work with a bag weighing more than l00 pounds, and I mean never. If anyone tells you different, they do not know what they are talking about. Bannana bags are different for the low cut kicks.

DW Forum - Lately I've heard things like "Bruce Lee could hit seven times in a second"...I personally believe it is crap. I mean how could anybody test speed of punches without todays fast-cameras and all that stuff?I'm told my wing chun instructor punches seven hits on a second (in the air of course).Have you heard of it? I guess it's a proof of a quickness....maybe Bruce talked about it?

Joe Lewis - Please, drop all the stuff you've heard. Martial arts is full of nonsense. Only believe what you have seen or can prove. Show me more than three real punches in a second and I will kiss your butt. ON film, Ali's jab took 7 frames to complete, and Sugar Ray's took 9 frames. A second of film takes 24 frames. Simple math guys. Three real punches per second and that is it. Less talk and more proof. Let's get in the ring and show off some of these secrets. They pay millions of dollars. That beats eating rice all your life and teaching martial arts forever anytime?

---

DW Forum - Can you tell a bit us of your training days with Bruce Lee & Bob Wall? How many training sessions in total did you have with Bruce & over that period of time? What is your opinion of Bruce as a fighter? Would he have been able to go 10 or 12 rounds with someone such as yourself or Chuck Norris? It is rumoured that Bruce Lee & Chuck Norris had a sparing session in that Chuck Norris was left red-faced. I assume this to mean he lost and was embarassed. Do you know ot have you anything about this ? Is there any truth in it. Can you tell us about the incident where Bruce kept teasing you about kicking a girl sized bag (Becuase you kept busting 100lb bags with your kicks). And you guys (Bob wall etc) made him a man sized bag (300lb). Did you ever meet or have a chance to talk to Jim Kelly ?

Joe Lewis - I learn fast. I made black belt in one year in Okinawa in three different styles. I am a fast learning. I can get all your stuff in a matter of weeks, and I mean anybody who can fight. I worked with Bruce less than two years before we grew apart. We used to work together for 6 to 8 hours at a time. I would be at his house at one in the afternoon, and not leave until maybe ten that night. Is that one lesson? Bruce was not a fighter. He was an actor and a teacher. He was a great teacher.

Doesn't even acknowledge the bag question. I'll post more later, have physical therapy for my shoulder now (had surgery on it).

SeikanJudanski · 04-18-2006, 11:55 AM

Well, I´ll believe Bruce taking steroids, if Linda Lee talks about it, other than that I could care less what JOEL STEIN or Bleeker have written about Bruce. Brings some facts, not articles and storys.

Reildeal · 04-18-2006, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mepersoner

Bruce Lee weighed more like 135 pounds.

Bruce Lee's legs were actually not that strong. He squatted the average weight for his size. His arms however, according to the weight and reps he used, were stronger than most olympic athletes today in his weight class.

Like I said, Bruce Lee is overrated on these boards. A lot of the stuff it is said he did you just have to look at and go, "Is that even physically possible?" Kick a 300 pound bag to the ceiling my ass. You can find some interviews with some of the people he actually trained that will tell more of what he could really do.

Finally, Lee did steroids, so he would've had to stop those to fight in Pride or UFC.

I doubt bruce ever used roids. He was a fanatic in keeping his body healthy. He would have never allowed himself to take a substance that was so detrimental to his body. The guy didn't even drink coffee for god's sakes. And as far as some of his physical feats being unbelieveable......what about his 1 inch punch which HAS been demonstrated AND documented. The guy would knock someone several feet back by having a distance of 1 inch between his fist and the other person. And a great deal of many martial arts focus on bringing strength and power from well beyond the physical aspect of the being.

mepersoner · 04-18-2006, 01:42 PM

I'll tell you guys what, you bring sources that he could hit 300 pound bags and make them hit the ceiling and I'll bring more sources about whatever you want, okay?

Yes, I have the 1 inch punch on my harddrive. It was a demonstration about the power behind proper hip and shoulder movement. At the time it was believed by many in the martial arts community that a punch from just the arm was better because it was quicker. Bruce was demonstrating just how much power people lose when just using their arm to punch by not using the strength in his arm to punch.

Anyways, I'll back up any claim I make, but you guys back your claims up too. Apparently my articles aren't good enough for one reason or another (I guess TIME isn't a reliable source - what the heck?), despite the overwhelming evidence pointed out. However, you might believe if you knew he started off taking the steroids to help heal when he hurt his back - which he did. He then was forced to continue taking them because his body wasn't producing enough testerone on its own and he couldn't maintain his strength or physique without them after that.

The problem with Bruce Lee is he was a phonominal physical specimen and he had the right ideas about martial arts, but people almost lessen his accomplishments by claiming he was some sort of superman. He wasn't.

In that same interview with Joe Lewis he's asked if Bruce Lee ever took steroids. His resposne? It's none of your business, if Bruce Lee wanted to take steroids, it was his body, he could do what he wanted with it.

DW Forum - Tom Bleeker wrote a book on Bruce Lee and said in it that Bruce Lee used steroids and I also read that he used drugs; during your time with Bruce, did you witness any of this, if so was it once, twice, or not at all?

Joe Lewis - I do not know anything about Tom Bleeker, nor have I ever met him. As far as Bruce Lee using steroids, I don’t think it is anyone’s business. Steroids make fighters short-winded, and only a fool would take them unless you need to gain weight quickly for some professional purpose. The church; the state; or any of his peers did not own Bruce Lee’s body. His body was his property and his only. Therefore, it is no one’s business what he chose to put in his body. I wish everyone would respect this philosophical principle.

Reildeal · 04-18-2006, 02:00 PM

Even with your sources, there is no proof. It's heresay. And "lessening his accomplishments by claiming he was some sort of superman?" Come on man, you don't actually believe that do you? If anything, YOU are the one lessening his accomplishments by pushing the idea that he used steroids and other drugs(ie. Cortisone). Innocent until proven guilty man. If anything, we are celebrating his accomplishments by reinforcing Bruces dedication, talent, and work.

I tell you what mepersoner, I'll make a deal with you. I'll go buy Jose Canseco's book and believe everything in there from cover to cover. I'm not saying that everything is false in what you read, but often times these sources need to be reviewed with caution as there is a lot of unsubstantiated claims that circulates about anyone that achieves a level of success such as Bruce.

theicein · 04-18-2006, 03:19 PM

The thing is is that no matter what, people are going to think of things to discredit great people in our society. I don't know if it makes them feel like more of a person but making pointless accusations is just wrong. People do this with all types of people. Look at celebrities and that, people are going to try to think of some type of dirt to put on them so they don't look as good of a person as the rest of the world thinks they are. Bruce Lee has inspired many people and I hope his work continues to teach young up and coming people trainging in MMA.

subgenius · 04-18-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeikanJudanski

Well, I´ll believe Bruce taking steroids, if Linda Lee talks about it, other than that I could care less what JOEL STEIN or Bleeker have written about Bruce. Brings some facts, not articles and storys.

And, he should find well-written articles. Look at the misspelled words and poor grammar in those articles. I would take that with a grain of salt.

SeikanJudanski · 04-18-2006, 03:40 PM

1" Punch...and a kick out of a movie.

Old Warrior · 04-18-2006, 03:44 PM

Steriods can be taken in cycles and a fighter can come up clean. different steroids have different detection times. also when using steroids a person does not keep or lose all the gains when they stop. depending on the steroid and the amout used. there is usally some extra streangth left that will stay if you continue to work out. for example is you can bench 400 at the end of a 3 month cycle you may be able to bench 480 that will go down fast after the cycle is over but when its all done and you have been clean for a while you will still stay around 20 pounds up on your bench.if this is done enough times some one can become much stronger. As far as detection deca durabolin can be found up till 18 months that is the longest of all the steriods I am aware of some steroids can not be detected after 3 weeks, So any fighter UFC ,Pride or whatever could have used steroids.I personally do not use steroids and I have been over 400 on bench but I have seen many people using steroids not all steroids blot you with water , some are used for cutting and defining. I really believe if steroids are used in moderation they can be benafical. Steroids the same kind body builders and strongmen use are used in hospitals to help people with disease including aids gain muscle to stay healthy to cut down on getting sick from being run down.Rich people like Magic Johnson need steroids to stay healthy without them aids would have killed him years ago.if a fighter has 3 or 4 months between fights and tests they have more than enough time to use steroids and come up clean.As for testosterone their are some blends that can't be detected becouse men have different measures in their bodies naturally.Some men are medically low and if they took test shots they may just become mid range or even if its high it does not prove drug use becouse some men naturally are at the high range of the scale.I do not mean to ramble here but I am old enough and been around to see steroids being used everywhere.

subgenius · 04-18-2006, 03:51 PM

Very cool, Seikan!

I found this, and thought it was cool. I can almost see Bruce Lee in the octagon dressed just like this...

SeikanJudanski · 04-18-2006, 04:16 PM

Jras0001 · 04-18-2006, 05:10 PM

Bruce Lee's response and reflex times were just phenominal. He could react to and intercept most of his oponents attacks before they could finish their moves. I think Bruce was an extremely gifted athlete and martial artist.

I think that Bruce's mind set and his attitude toward training and learning would have been a great tool to him if he were alive today and was to compete in the ufc / pride arenas. He would have seen the benifit of the ground game and would have trained accordingly. I doubt there would have been many people that could have hung with him in a match. Its such a shame that we will never be able to find out how dominate he could have been.