thecreewarrior

What do you think is better Judo or BJJ. I defintately know there's a difference between the two. Karo Parisyan is a Judo expert and his throws are awesome. His submissions look different then other BJJ fighters. IMO I think Judo is better in takedowns and throws and BJJ better in submissions.

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Way of the intercepting fist...

orodriguezjr

On the street I would go with Judo so you can just throw people around, using their own strength against them.

For MMA BJJ, just take them to the ground and make them tap.

DrumzCT

The takedowns in BJJ seem more wrestling oriented (ie. double leg, single leg) and are far easier to get proficient at than Judo throws. My BJJ coach however knows alot of Judo so we do Judo throws some classes and there's definitely some amazing throws.

rhtufts

Judo and BJJ are very similar. Judo has a much larger arsenal of throws and BJJ seems to stick to the basic takedowns. Judo newaza (ground fighting techniques) is almost identical to BJJ, but the judo fighter spends 60% to 70% training throws and standing grappling... I think the BJJ student spends that much if not more on ground fighting techniques.

BJJ and Judo are both based on Japanese ju-jitsu. Jigaro Kano started judo in 1882. One of Kano’s best students Mitsuyo Maeda (also called the Count of Combat) was an ambassador to Brazil in the early 1900’s he taught Carlos Gracie Judo/ju-jitsu. So you could say that BJJ and Judo are both branches of the same Ju-jitsu tree.

I am a Judo student and LOVE it. I was looking for a BJJ school and found a Judo club close to home for half the price of any BJJ place. I am 100% hooked and recommend Judo to everyone.

Oh and back to Judo VS. BJJ… I love Judo but if the fight goes to the ground the BJJ guy will usually win.


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Russell

SmashingMachine

I like to look at the guys in the ring for these kinds of questions. Yoshida and Gracie went to a draw. Yoshida's a Judo expert. Royce is a BJJ/Gracie JJ expert. Fedor's a Judo/Sambo expert. Nog's a BJJ expert. Their fights are also pretty even. I think if you've truly mastered one of those arts, like these guys have, it's pretty much a stalemate.

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Kochman

i would tend to think that this is correct, no matter what you have learned if you are good enough at it it should be the same. i mean karate guy's hold there own sometimes and i would have to say that that is one of the more basic technniques

SeikanJudanski

What about Pawel Nastula a 3 time European Judo Champion, 2 time World Champion and Olympic Gold medalist, also 200-0 in the under 95kg class against Big Nog? Nestula got owned.

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SmashingMachine

Sure, you're always going to be able to point out an incident here and there, but the point is it's the fighter not the art. Fedor submitted Ogawya, who's a former silver medalist in olympic judo, by armbar in the first round. Mark Kerr beat Ricco Rodriguez and Mario Sperry in Abu Dhabi. I know Kerr's bread n butter's is wrestling but he's crossed trained judo and those guys were BJJ. It's the fighter not the art. Not to mention Nastula pretty much only knew Judo...Nog's well rounded in MMA...second only to Fedor. It's the fighter not the art.

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subgenius

This is an interesting discussion. I agree with most of it, especially that a lot of this depends on the individual fighters involved. I mean, if we just say Fighter-A is a Karate-BJJ fighter and Fighter-B is a Karate-Judo fighter, then who do we think will win that fight? When we put names in that phrase, then I think that will change our opinions.

Also, as the years go by, most of the fighters are crossing the gap between each of the arts. Really, those gaps are eroding away faster and faster. We no longer see straight MA fighters these days it seems. Most are MMA to some extent. And, we see more of the Fighter-X type of fighters that have skill sets like Karate-Kickboxing-BJJ-wrestling-Judo or whatever. Some might have even longer skill sets. I guess that it is like a Jack-of-all-trades.

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BJ Penn stole my SHOE!!!

sitnspin

Absolutely. The term Mixed Martial Arts gets more appropriate all the time. It's almost time for Bruce Buffer to stop introducing guys as "This man is a kickboxer" or "This man is a submission expert", because these days, EVERYONE in the UFC is some manner of a kickboxer or a submission expert. Who's fighting in top level MMA that hasn't had training in BJJ and Muay Thai and wrestling and boxing and probably one or two other styles?

God, I love this sport.

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the preach man

Amen to that brotha!!!

SeikanJudanski

Huh? What did you say? lol, just kidding.

Man, I´ve been saying this for years, and I always get blasted when I say that Fedor would have a chance in Boxing. Champions are champions, no matter which art they have chosen. Anyway, I don´t want to hijack the UFC thread with Pride fighters..

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angryjonny

Didn't Pawel get owned by Minotauro's boxing though?

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mepersoner

Got owned? Nestula was winning that fight until he gassed. Got owned my ass. That wasn't due to the art, that was due to conditioning.

Plus, he lost to strikes.

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Click for why the US invaded Iraq.

Crashsti

there is more to a fight than the art involved. Judo is a great art and so is BJJ but they have differant core ideas. BJJ was designed to take an opponent down and wear him out so you can submit him. it was created to negate the weight advantage of your opponent, the idea being, weight does'nt matter on the ground. which these days, at least in MMA is'nt true. Judo is definately more explosive and the takedowns are meant to inflict damage as much as the submissions. a good fighter is aware of all arts and possiblities to avoid being surprised. in MMA Judo throws are less effective since there is no Gi involved. the same could be said for BJJ, no Gi gives you less options.

gmack

I just recently started karate, BJJ, Judo, and kickboxing. and i was wondering this too. To me (still new to the sports) it depends on how serious the fight is. I think in a street fight if i wanted to seriously hurt someone it would be the BJJ (choke them or break arm with arm bar) but ethically who wants to mess someone up. In MMA you can tap out and it is over. in the street if I put someone in an arm bar and let them up because i don't want to seriously hurt them they are going to be 100% when they get up.

I kind of look at Judo as kind of a turnament style of BJJ. If i wanted to cage fight and could learn only one or the other, it would be BJJ

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DrumzCT

but if your in a street situation and defending yourself, you should have enough reason to dislocate someones arm so you can get away. Of course, in the street you should prefer to stay on your feet because you never know when your assailants friend is going to come up behind you and kick you in the head.

the preach man

This is not meant to disrespect DrumzCT, it is simply a reply to this argument (that I have heard since UFC 1).

I dont think that this point makes much sense at all. If I am in the guard and trying to work a submission I AM vulnerable to another person kicking me in the head. However, If I am throwing punches or in a clinch, what keeps the other person form blindsiding me with a punch to the side of the head or grabbing me and letting his buddy beat me up?

My point is that if there is more than one person fighting you there isnt much you can do. I dont think that bruce lee would have been able to effectivly fight multiple attackers (and im a big bruce fan).

Lets keep with the Bruce Lee example. The reason we say that a figher like him can handle multiple attackers and a BJJ guy cannot is because Lee can disable a guy in one or two hits/kicks. If this were true why cant a master of Lee's art(forgot how to spell it) simple take out a BJJ guy in the octagon in one or two hits/kicks? He cant, at least not on a regular basis. The proof is that 'Kung Fu' masters are not dominating the UFC.

Conclusion:

On paper, "kung fu" is better in a street fight because your not on your back trying to work a submission and vulnerable to the other guy kicking you in the head. BUT IMHO Multiple foes is a time when superior size/strength does come into effect. You need more than just good technique to beat 2 guys, you need to be a FAR SUPERIOR figher than the two of them (maybe have to strength to simple 'push' one away and pound on the other quickly lol).

just my 2 cents.

and again, im not bashing. Just sharing my opinion.

SeikanJudanski

First of all, I never said Nog submitted him, Smashing said when two masters of BJJ and Judo fight each other, "it´s preety much stalemate". I simply pointed out the fight between Nog ( BJJ Master) and Pawel Nastula ( 300 wins or more in Judo, Gold medalist, World champion and what not).

Yes, Pawel got owned, dosen´t matter how. The fight was 95% on the ground, and Pawel did have some good moments in the beginning of the round. What do you expect from a Judoka who was Olympic champion and what not.. with a record of like 300 wins, undeafeated in Judo? Of course he is going to have some good moments, but NEVER at ANY point was WINNING the fight. If anything you need to give Nog credit for beating such a warrior, not trying to blame it on Pawel´s condition, his condition is fine, it´s just that he tried to chew a rock.

The fight went to the ground and Pawel was controlling the fight, but never was a threat to Nog, infact Nog was looking for Armbars, and a Triangle choke while he was on his back, rolled around a couple of times, but when Nog got him on his back it was all Nog. He was beating Pawel UP, mepersoner. Pawel didn´t gas because he somehow didn´t have the right condition in the fight, he gassed because Nog´s ground game totally neutralized Pawel´s, combine that with the strikes, so of course Pawel looked gassed, he didn´t know where the heck he was, this is MMA not Judo. I find it funny when people try to make excuses for a fighter because he "gassed", this is a real fight man, you better have the condition it takes, or the opponent is better, even if it is due to the fact of having more stamina.

When they stood up, Nog was beginnig to lay the icing on the cake by stunning him with strikes. Obviously you don´t know the difference between being gassed and just getting beat up to the point that you look gassed from being stunned and worn out. After Big Nog stunned him and laid that ground game on him, Pawel was laying in the ropes and didn´t even want to get up. Call it gassed, I call it getting owned. At about 3 minutes left of the first round, Nog ground and pounded a world class judoka into Oblivion. Yes, he owned him. Whether you want to debate about it for another 5 days or not.

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Crashsti

Bruce Lee's art is Jeet Kune Do. anyhow, when a street fight does occur the main intentions of one guy is usually to get away as quickly as possible. a quick finger jab to the eyes or a shot to another vital area is usually good enough to give yourself a chance to escape. the whole idea of taking someone to the ground and submitting them would be a last resort in my opinion. the minute you are no longer standing you're chances of getting away go to zero unless you can somehow get a man in an armbar or some sort of choke. however this also leaves you vulnerable to being bitten or have your eyes clawed. Bruce Lee believed strongly in Offensive Defense. meaning that if you can successfully attack your opponent you can prevent him from attacking you. so unless you are so good at BJJ that you can VERY quickly take a man's back and choke him out you're better off staying on your feet so you can run away.